Experts and beginners

[nelson]

Here's a new quote from our friends at Paramount. While applicable a different levels it seems to address the issue of why some need 101 techniques and others do well with a handful.


‎"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." -Suzuki

[J-squared]

Is this just you intentionally being passive aggressive in your argumentative style? Do you really believe the original quote references the size of a training curriculum, or should dictate a training system?

And how about:
"The General that loses the battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations lead to defeat: how much more no calculations at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose." From Sun Tzu, The Art of War

So are you training at Paramount? Or do you just like their David Carradine three bong hit Kung Fu quotes?

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[Enginerd]

I believe he's referring to the teaching approach Shin'ishi Suzuki, a famous Japanese violin teacher. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_method

In context with Kenpo, this would be more a question of learning and perfecting rote sequences vs. developing the ability for innovation and sponteneity. The former can have obvious limitations in non ideal situations, the latter can create diarreah of the brain and dilute performance. Sponeneity is generally not the challenge most folks have, but what is challenging is developing sponteneity to occur at the same level of sophistication, for lack of better terms, as the prescribed techniques.

I could be reading it wrong, but as a closet musician this was the first thing to come to mind regarding the name Suzuki. My question to you, Nelson, is what specifically are you trying to get at with the quote? Reel the topic in some, otherwise it has the potential to turn diarretic too.

[nelson]

It never ceases to amaze me how some folks can get so riled up over a simple. little quote. You'd think I said, "Remember the Alamo!" LOL!! The quote has different levels of interpretation depending on one's knowledge. Enginerd nailed it as far as I'm concerned. I don't think there is a problem with "learning and perfecting sequences" as long as one doesn't mistake the forest for the trees.

[Brother John]

I'm not seeing how this addresses a large / moderate or small curriculum at all.
NOT meaning to perpetuate any differences you guys are ....enjoying.....thus far, but I was wondering if you could help me see where you're going with that quote Nelson. Does seem you're trying to make some point here.

Thanks
Your Brother
John

[nelson]

It believe that enginered expressed it quite well and will repeat what he said.

In context with Kenpo, this would be more a question of learning and perfecting rote sequences vs. developing the ability for innovation and spontaneity. The former can have obvious limitations in non ideal situations, the latter can create diarrhea of the brain and dilute performance. Spontaneity is generally not the challenge most folks have, but what is challenging is developing spontaneity to occur at the same level of sophistication, for lack of better terms, as the prescribed techniques.

I believe this level of spontaneity is achievable providing that you have the correct prerequisites in the case of kenpo we would refer to stances and body alignments as well as correct blocking and striking techniques in this matter.

[DavidCC]

When you reach the highest levels of mastery, the one right thing to do is obvious, and doing anything else is unreasonable.

It's lonely up here so get off the internet and go train, peons!

[Brother John]

It believe that enginered expressed it quite well and will repeat what he said.

In context with Kenpo, this would be more a question of learning and perfecting rote sequences vs. developing the ability for innovation and spontaneity. The former can have obvious limitations in non ideal situations, the latter can create diarrhea of the brain and dilute performance. Spontaneity is generally not the challenge most folks have, but what is challenging is developing spontaneity to occur at the same level of sophistication, for lack of better terms, as the prescribed techniques.

I believe this level of spontaneity is achievable providing that you have the correct prerequisites in the case of kenpo we would refer to stances and body alignments as well as correct blocking and striking techniques in this matter.

Ok
So what does this have to do with a curriculum of 101 vs. just a handful?

[nelson]

John,
The original quote from Paramount means different things to us all depending on our own background. I don't know 101 from 210 and don't plan on commenting any further on this subject. Again, I like the way Engineered looked at it in the context of musical expression. Experts know how to cut through the crap and get to the heart of the matter. That's probably why there are so few of them.

[DavidCC]

Meanwhile my answer was so incredibly correct y'all can't even fathom it LOL Like Jon Anderson said he wanted Yes's music to be "inevitable, but not predictable".

[Brother John]

John,
The original quote from Paramount means different things to us all depending on our own background. I don't know 101 from 210 and don't plan on commenting any further on this subject. Again, I like the way Engineered looked at it in the context of musical expression. Experts know how to cut through the crap and get to the heart of the matter. That's probably why there are so few of them.

Okay
Thanks anyway

Your Bro.
John

[DavidCC]

When you reach the highest levels of mastery, the one right thing to do is obvious, and doing anything else is unreasonable.

This can be seen in such documentaries as Kung Fu Hustle and Tai Chi Master, if you doubt what I am saying.