Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31

Thread: Promotions As Rewards

  1. #1
    Chance is offline
    KenpoTalk
    White Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Olathe, Kansas
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Question Promotions As Rewards

    Promotions given as a reward for external class activity... Good, Bad or Ugly?

    For example:
    • designing school promotional material
    • bringing in new students
    • performing Sensei's household chores i.e. mowing the lawn, washing his car or laundry, etc...
    Should these favors earn a student quicker promotions?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    2,771
    Thanks
    1,623
    Thanked 3,122 Times in 1,474 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    Bad, and Ugly.
    Michael


    de gustibus non disputante est.
    Negative Douche Bag Number One

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to flying crane For This Useful Post:

    jdinca (05-08-2008)

  4. #3
    Roach is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Green Belt
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    614
    Thanks
    233
    Thanked 201 Times in 138 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    Bad, and Ugly.
    Agreed.

    Rank is supposed to reflect a students position within the curriculum of a school. If mowing the instructors's lawn is a requirement, then I see no issue with it.

    There are lots of ways to reward a student for actions outside the studio. A free private lesson would be a viable alternative.

    If I were in a school that awarded rank based upon outside efforts, that might lead to me not working the stuff that matters as much because I know if I bring in a couple Joe's for lessons, I'll be rewarded with an advancement anyway.
    Be safe,

    Roach

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    1,234
    Thanks
    1,485
    Thanked 622 Times in 414 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    Promotions given as a reward for external class activity... Good, Bad or Ugly?

    For example:
    • designing school promotional material
    • bringing in new students
    • performing Sensei's household chores i.e. mowing the lawn, washing his car or laundry, etc...
    Should these favors earn a student quicker promotions?

    Hell no! This would be an abuse and anyone who panders for belt advancement by doing these things will gain their just reward...poor ability.

    The instructor will also reap the consequences for abusing his/her position, in time...a bad reputation.

    My guess it that you're seeing this going on or have seen it in the past.

    ~Peace
    ~Bill Richardson

    Rudeness is the frustrated attempt of a small mind to communicate.

    Forgive everyone everything

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    My own private Idaho
    Posts
    5,296
    Thanks
    4,906
    Thanked 3,584 Times in 2,190 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    Bad, and Ugly.
    Yup.
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

  7. #6
    clapping_tiger is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Yellow Belt
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    62
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 24 Times in 19 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    NO WAY! Just one more way that the quick and easy route that so many seek out cheapens what earning a Black Belt means.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to clapping_tiger For This Useful Post:

    toejoe2k (05-08-2008)

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    6,026
    Thanks
    1,199
    Thanked 1,520 Times in 909 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    Promotions given as a reward for external class activity... Good, Bad or Ugly?

    For example:
    • designing school promotional material
    • bringing in new students
    • performing Sensei's household chores i.e. mowing the lawn, washing his car or laundry, etc...
    Should these favors earn a student quicker promotions?
    Strange first post.....but no. It belittles the importance of the rank. Probably contributed to why nobody respects a "black belt" any more.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

  10. #8
    oldslowguy is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Blue Belt
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    440
    Thanks
    102
    Thanked 215 Times in 152 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    That explains why there's so many belt colors and ranks!
    "Many years of training is wasted by one night of drinking"-oldslowguy

    "Pain may be a cruel master..........but it breeds diligent pupils."

  11. #9
    adrenjunky is offline
    KenpoTalk
    White Belt
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Mi
    Posts
    10
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    Bad, belt promotions should always be earned.

    However there are other things you can due for students that "promote" the school. Anywhere from certs of recognition to discounts on classes.

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sarnia, ON, Canada
    Posts
    7,774
    Thanks
    301
    Thanked 1,263 Times in 801 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    I thoughtit would be good to revive this thread. I know an organizationthat has done this and is now severely suffering for it. Earn your ranks to 5th then have them bestowed upon you.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Rob Broad For This Useful Post:

    execkenpo (01-04-2010)

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    San Diego area
    Posts
    1,024
    Thanks
    876
    Thanked 501 Times in 283 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by chance View Post
    promotions given as a reward for external class activity... Good, bad or ugly?


    For example:
    • designing school promotional material
    • bringing in new students
    • performing sensei's household chores i.e. Mowing the lawn, washing his car or laundry, etc...
    should these favors earn a student quicker promotions?

    no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The above is just my opinion.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Dianhsuhe For This Useful Post:

    MARSHALLS KENPO (01-04-2010)

  16. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Salinas, California, United States
    Posts
    1,099
    Thanks
    514
    Thanked 493 Times in 315 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    Well as usual I have to be the voice of disparity.......just kidding.

    Horrible idea, practice....and....reality. =/
    ~ Steve Zalazowski
    Continuing Student of the Arts.

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to IWishToLearn For This Useful Post:

    MARSHALLS KENPO (01-04-2010),robertk (01-03-2010)

  18. #13
    robertk's Avatar
    robertk is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Blue Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Mansfield,Ohio
    Posts
    452
    Thanks
    656
    Thanked 221 Times in 135 Posts

    Thumbs down Re: Promotions As Rewards

    Laundry ?????????!!! Eeuuw. -Bob

  19. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sunny San Antonio
    Posts
    1,080
    Thanks
    238
    Thanked 874 Times in 412 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    I don't disagree with anyone's thoughts on the matter, but to me it begs the question of rank value difference. My understanding has always been that rank is similar to the richter scale...each one is a multiple of the one before, instead of an addition. That being said, a promotion from purple to blue takes significantly less than a promotion from 6th dan to 7th dan.

    It would seem that all agree here that promoting someone within the lower belt ranks should not be based on sharing the art with others...i.e bringing new people to the school.

    But promotion in the higher ranks for the same thing is ok? Bringing people into your school and sharing the art with them? Exposing them to the art?

    At what stage in the game does it stop being "cheapening" rank and start being "promotion based on contribution?"

    By the way...unless he needs help, mowing my sensei's lawn for anything else less than a free lesson...********.

  20. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    For kids, if they do extra stuff, give them a 'special stripe' or something.

    Star patches or something like that.

    Adults doing that, if not for lessons, are just being suck-ups.

    I had one person (loudly on the internet) say I was just doing the Kenpo Continuum book to get a stripe and I had one black belt actually offer me rank for it.

    I thought that was weird. Both sides of it. Doing the book didn't improve my kenpo. At my rank, I still have plenty to learn. I would feel really fake wearing rank that I didn't feel I'd earned.

    Unless, of course, I mowed someone's lawn or did someone's dishes. Well, then naturally I would feel completely justified.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to amylong For This Useful Post:

    Arizona Angel (01-03-2010),robertk (01-03-2010)

  22. #16
    sifuroy is offline In Memory of our Departed Friend
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,027
    Thanks
    958
    Thanked 444 Times in 304 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    There are other ways to reward them. A free private lesson for one. I often give them a school patch or some small Item I know they can't afford. I make weapons and I often give them free weapons. That rewards me to as I enjoy making them. They are happy with that. They must earn Rank.

  23. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to sifuroy For This Useful Post:

    Arizona Angel (01-03-2010),Dianhsuhe (01-03-2010),MarkC (01-03-2010),MARSHALLS KENPO (01-04-2010),robertk (01-03-2010)

  24. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Worth Texas
    Posts
    3,900
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 1,741 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe View Post
    no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by IWishToLearn View Post
    Well as usual I have to be the voice of disparity.......just kidding.

    Horrible idea, practice....and....reality. =/

    I do not agree with false promotions
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

  25. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    I do not agree with false promotions
    How about false prophets?

    False teeth?

    False positive?
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  26. The Following User Says Thank You to amylong For This Useful Post:

    MARSHALLS KENPO (01-06-2010)

  27. #19
    Shaolindelt is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    728
    Thanks
    196
    Thanked 396 Times in 246 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    Why am I struggling to restrain myself from making a comment about just handing out 10th degree Black Belts.

    Great job painting the dojo for me, or mopping the floors, or getting 10 new students to sign up, etc. . . . here's your Judan.

    Ranks as rewards are meaningless. . .

    Then again, rank is meaningless, except that which we give it. So if you get promoted for helping out, then that's what it means to you. If it means quality and ability, then it can't be used as a reward.

    I think most of us around here prefer to see rank for ability, quality and knowledge, but we all have seen it where it meant something less desireable.

    You reap what you sow . . .
    Marcus Doyle
    Shaolin Kempo
    American Kenpo

    KempoTraining.com

  28. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: Promotions As Rewards

    I guess this thread isn't much of a debate since we all seem to agree.

    Phony rank = bad

    I think the same is true for rank handed out for showing up too. Or because your parent is the teacher. Or because you've been working really hard at it for awhile, but you still don't have it.

    On the other hand....you also have fingers.

    The thing is, a lot of people who get rank they really don't deserve, don't know that they don't deserve it. Most people think they are pretty good.

    They think they are good drivers, smart, and have a good sense of humor.

    Most people are wrong on one or more counts.

    So how do you know? How can you be sure that you deserve your rank?
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  29. The Following User Says Thank You to amylong For This Useful Post:

    MARSHALLS KENPO (01-04-2010)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Honored to be invited to promotions
    By sifuroy in forum KenpoTalk E-Zine Articles
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-18-2007, 09:26 PM
  2. Promotions in San Antonio
    By usks1 in forum Parkers Kenpo (EPAK) - General
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-18-2006, 07:47 PM
  3. HMA Promotions!
    By Hunter in forum Kenpo News
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-03-2006, 04:02 PM