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Thread: Does Chi enhance power?

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    Default Does Chi enhance power?

    Does Chi enhance power?

    What is Chi?

    Does Exhaling or screaming condense power to a focal point?
    Brad Marshall SP
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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    It depends on people's background and outlook quite a bit.

    Me? I believe there's a lot too the theory of Traditional Chinese Medicine. There's a sizeable bit of work in Western Medicine where scientist and doctors are investigating it's effects and nature. Not all feel it's a profitable piece of research...for western medicine.

    Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM for short) is where the martial arts gets it's study of "Chi", which in Japan is called Ki.

    The shout, or "Ki-ai", doesn't 'focus chi', but it is one tool that's supposed to help harnes it's effect.

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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Does Chi enhance power?

    What is Chi?
    Hi Brad,

    I'll give you my best answers, based on about 10 years study of tai chi chuan with a skilled instructor. My understanding and knowledge is certainly far from perfect, qi is something I struggle with a lot myself, but I think I have managed to absorb an understanding of it and what it is that we are trying to accomplish with it.

    According to Chinese medical theory, qi is an energy that permeates all things, including people. Everyone has it, it flows thru all of us. Most of us are unaware of it. It is very subtle and cannot be felt by most people, but it is there in everyone and everything in some way.

    When qi flow is disrupted or blocked, it can cause illness. Likewise, injury can lead to blocked qi. According again to Chinese medicine, restoring the flow of qi thru techniques like acupuncture, brings health back into line and you recover from illnesses, and are able to better heal from injuries.

    Qi can be utilized in martial training and application of martial technique. Qi-gung is a series of exercises found in many Chinese arts, including the internal arts like tai chi chuan, bagua-zhang, and xing-i chuan, which probably focus on qi development most prominently. The purpose of these exercises is to bring your qi into your awareness, and to build the strength of your qi. Once you are aware of your qi, you can develop the ability to control it to some degree, including using it to enhance your martial technique. People who have accomplished this are typically able to execute technique with tremendous power and effect, but with seemingly little effort, far moreso than someone who is just very good at their techniques in a purely physical way. But understand, I am not endorsing "qi-balls" and such nonsense, like claims to be able to knock someone down from a distance without touching him. I believe this kind of ability is in the realm of fantasy.

    Real qi is subtle, elusive, and difficult to control and develop and only happens gradually for those who manage to do so. I personally believe that those who have really managed to do so are in the minority. Many people like to fool themselves into believing they have control of their qi. Often, they think they have "figured it out" early in their training, and I just do not believe that. So I am typically skeptical of most people's claims to understand and utilize qi.

    Does Exhaling or screaming condense power to a focal point?
    I believe it can, but this is not qi.

    I also believe this can backfire, and reduce your power, if you tense up while doing this. It may feel stronger, but in reality you are just making yourself work harder and you are fighting yourself. But if you figure out how to remain relaxed and then explode with your power, channeling thru a powerful exhale, you can bring your body into focused coordination, and increase your power for that technique.

    But I would put this into the realm of a higher level of physical understanding of efficient technique, and not part of qi or internal development.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    The "Ki-ai" is also used to practice proper breathing, which is the basis of meditation. As for Chi energy I believe it can be explained through physics as a total concentration of one energy throughout the body. For example a proper punch starts in the feet to the legs through the hips up the chest and out the arm. To execute this using all the energy without losing it it through the rest of the body requires practice, skill, and the innate ability to perceive and control this energy. The ability to recognize and control this energy could be called "using Chi".
    I have practiced Tai Chi for a number of years and I believe there really is such a thing. The slow movements of Tai Chi allow you to "feel" this energy moving through you. As you move faster as in hard martial arts it is tougher to perceive this energy, thus harder to control.

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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    proper intent focuses qi
    proper posture allows qi to flow
    posture must reflect intent

    as you refine your intent, your posture improves
    improved posture enhances the flow of qi
    better flowing qi refines the intent
    and so on to infinity

    Here are 2 books that I liked. But my real understanding came from 3 teachers: Ron Chapel, Dave Crouch, and Tim Hueurtz.

    The Essence of Shaolin White Crane--Martial Power and Qigong
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188...SIN=1886969353


    Scholor Warrior
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006...SIN=0062502328
    -David C
    http://www.kungfubooksonline.com

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    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post

    The shout, or "Ki-ai", doesn't 'focus chi', but it is one tool that's supposed to help harnes it's effect.

    Your Brother
    John
    Please explain.

    How would/ could the physical applications of the Ki-ai transfer through the mental process of the survial aspect. There would apear to be a release of adrinelin in a survial attack mode of the action.

    Thanks
    Brad Marshall SP
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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    Hi Brad,

    I'll give you my best answers, based on about 10 years study of tai chi chuan with a skilled instructor. My understanding and knowledge is certainly far from perfect, qi is something I struggle with a lot myself, but I think I have managed to absorb an understanding of it and what it is that we are trying to accomplish with it.

    According to Chinese medical theory, qi is an energy that permeates all things, including people. Everyone has it, it flows thru all of us. Most of us are unaware of it. It is very subtle and cannot be felt by most people, but it is there in everyone and everything in some way.

    When qi flow is disrupted or blocked, it can cause illness. Likewise, injury can lead to blocked qi. According again to Chinese medicine, restoring the flow of qi thru techniques like acupuncture, brings health back into line and you recover from illnesses, and are able to better heal from injuries.

    Qi can be utilized in martial training and application of martial technique. Qi-gung is a series of exercises found in many Chinese arts, including the internal arts like tai chi chuan, bagua-zhang, and xing-i chuan, which probably focus on qi development most prominently. The purpose of these exercises is to bring your qi into your awareness, and to build the strength of your qi. Once you are aware of your qi, you can develop the ability to control it to some degree, including using it to enhance your martial technique. People who have accomplished this are typically able to execute technique with tremendous power and effect, but with seemingly little effort, far moreso than someone who is just very good at their techniques in a purely physical way. But understand, I am not endorsing "qi-balls" and such nonsense, like claims to be able to knock someone down from a distance without touching him. I believe this kind of ability is in the realm of fantasy.

    Real qi is subtle, elusive, and difficult to control and develop and only happens gradually for those who manage to do so. I personally believe that those who have really managed to do so are in the minority. Many people like to fool themselves into believing they have control of their qi. Often, they think they have "figured it out" early in their training, and I just do not believe that. So I am typically skeptical of most people's claims to understand and utilize qi.



    I believe it can, but this is not qi.

    I also believe this can backfire, and reduce your power, if you tense up while doing this. It may feel stronger, but in reality you are just making yourself work harder and you are fighting yourself. But if you figure out how to remain relaxed and then explode with your power, channeling thru a powerful exhale, you can bring your body into focused coordination, and increase your power for that technique.

    But I would put this into the realm of a higher level of physical understanding of efficient technique, and not part of qi or internal development.
    Michael,

    Thank you for your indepth response. Do you think there is a relationship between this and the super concious state of mind?
    Brad Marshall SP
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    trgodbm@yahoo.com

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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Michael,

    Thank you for your indepth response. Do you think there is a relationship between this and the super concious state of mind?
    please give me a definition and perhaps examples of the super concious state of mind.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    please give me a definition and perhaps examples of the super concious state of mind.

    Concious, and sub-concious, somewhere in between is the super-concious. The state where the two blend together. The example of a 90 lb woman lifting a 2000 lb car off a toddler. Its when you are no longer thinking about what you are doing, and your body and mind move faster then one can think. Some people call it the Zone.

    Look forward to your thoughts
    Brad Marshall SP
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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Please explain.

    How would/ could the physical applications of the Ki-ai transfer through the mental process of the survial aspect. There would apear to be a release of adrinelin in a survial attack mode of the action.

    Thanks
    You just reminded me of something one of my GoJu Ryu Sensei told me YEARS ago.... (years and years....)
    That during a strong, deep kiai the diaphragm compresses the adrenal glands that are on the top of the kidneys, helping to excrete extra adrenaline.
    I have no idea how valid that is, but it sounds good.

    Dr. Dave? Are you readin this? Could you comment on the physiology behind that???

    But really, ever since he'd told me that, I just took it at face value.

    I think that there's also a lot to do with the uniting of ones entire body/mind, intent and motion into one, and the breath is one aspect that has a great deal to do with the body and the mind. It's interesting to note that the Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Egyptian, Persian, Japanese, Navajo and Sanscrit words for spirit ((used akin to the word "mind")) is often the same word for 'Breath'. I always found that interesting.

    Also: in the study of hypnosis, one of the fastest and most effective ways to begin a persons mind on the path toward a trance or other altered state of mind is to alter their breathing patterns. This speaks of it's effect on the mind/spirit.

    The words for "Life" in many cultures, is also a word for breath.

    I think that when we focus our breath, harness it in certain patterns.... it effects our bodies ability to contract in certain important ways. That's one reason we must breath out WITH an exertion, like lifting a heavy weight. This is akin to the exertion WITH the Kiai.

    It should also be noted that MOST people don't know how to kiai properly. NOT that I think I'm some expert on it. There are lots of different ways to use "kiai", to apply it to action. I know a meager few, but those that I know..
    I know.

    Very interesting subject.

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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Concious, and sub-concious, somewhere in between is the super-concious. The state where the two blend together. The example of a 90 lb woman lifting a 2000 lb car off a toddler. Its when you are no longer thinking about what you are doing, and your body and mind move faster then one can think. Some people call it the Zone.
    I remember from one of my classes in college, we talked about this phenomenon. The muscles in the body are extremely strong 1 lb of muscle would be capable of generating enough force to move 2,000 lbs. Your muscles are literally strong enough that if you were to FULLY flex them you would rip them off the bone. We have nerve cells that limit this and stop that from happening. To make a politically incorrect reference that people term "retard strength" this is because the body doesn't fully control the muscles. Most strength gains in the beginning of a lifting program are due to neurological changes and the body knowing how to more effectively use itself.

    That being said. Kochi Tohei "distilled" his training with Ueshiba into 4 principles for Ki.

    1) Keep one point (tantien, or your center)
    2) Relax Completely
    3) Keep weight underside
    4) Extend Ki

    The first 3, if you look at them are basically learning to use your body with proper mechanics, the last one is a mental thing for picturing how you are going to move. Kind of like when we instruct students to picture punching through the target. I think this is a good approach for learning how to use chi/ki in a MA.

    To me though, this seems like a very "western" approach and while I think focusing on these 4 things is beneficial I feel that there is alot more to ki/chi/prana etc. TCM has a whole lot about other methods and the meridians etc. on how to get the energy unblocked and how to use it. Even from what I have read from Dr. Chap'el on this forum I think he incorporates certain things to help with this flow and to get the proper body mechanics to allow it (I could be wrong, I haven't had the pleasure of training with him, only reading his posts).

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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Does Chi enhance power?

    What is Chi?

    Does Exhaling or screaming condense power to a focal point?
    Hi Friend,

    Here is a web definition of Chi:

    "in Eastern philosophies, the energy that connects and animates everything in the universe; includes both individual qi (personal life force) and universal qi, which are coextensive through the practice of mind‑body disciplines, such as traditional meditation, aikido, and tai chi."

    You know I love ya like a brother, but just wanted to let you know that as a Christian, seeking after chi energy in martial arts or otherwise is idolatry plain and simple.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    I know this has been discussed a couple places here. The link is to a post of one of Doc's articles on the subject:

    MT: "Kenpo-Karate & Chi"

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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    Hi Friend,

    Here is a web definition of Chi:

    "in Eastern philosophies, the energy that connects and animates everything in the universe; includes both individual qi (personal life force) and universal qi, which are coextensive through the practice of mind‑body disciplines, such as traditional meditation, aikido, and tai chi."

    You know I love ya like a brother, but just wanted to let you know that as a Christian, seeking after chi energy in martial arts or otherwise is idolatry plain and simple.
    Hey Jamie-

    I'm a Bible believing Christian as well.
    But I don't think that ALL definitions and explanations of what Chi/Qi/Ki is and does agree with what you've quoted here.

    I look at it like this.
    God created His Universe in awesome majesty and power, FAR beyond our understanding.
    ALL science is little more than mankind's struggle to explain the infinite with little more than our finite brains, woefully inadequate for the task. We have to lean a great deal on nothing more than observation, and the amount of the Universes, or even this Earth's, data we can actually observe is very very very small. Western science did the best it could with what it was given and came up with some data that is very useful to us, like the study of microwaves and the rest of the elctro-magnetic spectrum.
    Oriental science lead them toward finding things about, especially about the human body, that was and is very useful to them. They explained it the best that they could, but in many cases, it's extremely innadequate and outdated. Their culture puts a LOT (a TON) more emphasis on preserving the exact wording of the "ancients" in order to understand what it is they are observing.
    IF we in the west were to have a similar emphasis on the preservation of the original languages of our scientific efforts....
    then we'd still believe in actual "Hysteria" causing women to be 'crazy' because they had their womb traveling about lose in their bodies....which is the literal translation of the word "Hysteria", meaning = roaming womb.
    We'd believe that people had pains in their abdomen due to 'foul humors' or spirits....instead of realizing that they had cancer. We'd think that the bad spirits in a person would be gotten rid of by drilling holes in their head.

    The observations weren't innacurate, but their conclusions and the resulting actions were. We've come a LONG LONG LONG way since then!!! THANK GOD!
    But the science we have, is the science they had......with Centuries of sophistication and development ontop of it.
    In the East, their knoweldge has been much more 'guarded', letting only the few have access too it and fully condemning anyone that sees things differently, even to the point of making the change of terminology in their science result in not only condemnation, but expusion from the profession. So they couldn't have the same cultivation and development.

    Their paradigm was steeped in their mythology for a VERY long time. But that doesn't mean that their observations were wrong, only their conclusions. There is a GREAT deal of work being done to unite western and eastern understandings of science together, and it's very enlightening.

    If you went back two hundred years or more to Elizabethan England and told them about radio waves, and that we can transmit and recieve them, OR bounce them off of objects and by recieving them back....be able to "See" objects without the use of vision. (radar) Or that these waves come from the stars (Galactic and inter-Galactic Radio waves are littlerally ASTRONOMICALLY more powerful than we could imagine) and have always existed for as long as there have been stars, or that these waves can pass through and penetrate all solid matter.....
    etc. etc.
    You'd be seen as a heretic and be seen as atributing God-like attributes to a force of nature, and be declared a pagan.

    yet, you'd have been right.

    The fact that we can't pin it down Exactly, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
    The fact that it exhibits properties we don't currently understand, doesn't mean that we can't, or won't......or that it doesn't exist.
    The fact that others, from the distant past, with a different level of understanding and basic paradigm of life, branded it as something completely outside what WE would consider rational....doesn't mean that underneath it all.....they are wrong.
    and the fact that what THEY say it's properties are seem to contradict our understanding of reality.......doesn't mean that the study and or use of them means we are going against nature, against God or against sound Biblical doctrine.

    Being seen as a 'force' that penetrates (unites?) all of everything doesn't make a thing an "Idol" or idolotry, or heretical...
    unless you can claim those exact same things for Nuclear Force (which does those things) and Gravity (which also does those things)....
    yet our understanding of these things has improved the quality of life on Earth..
    and has never contradicted the existence of God nor our worship of Him in Truth and Love.

    Just my thoughts bro.

    Your Brother
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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    MANY martial arts practitioners try to build their chi via meditation and various relaxing breathing patterns. Why? To create physiological changes in one's body to improve one's martial arts skills. Some practitioners even go way off the map trying to be superhuman by pointing at people via no-touch knockouts.

    This is a fact.

    Question: How do you think, as a believer, God views this practice? Is this not putting your trust in a self-created image of the mind instead of the one true God? That is idolatry.

    “Trust in the Lord with all your heart; and don't lean on your own understanding. In all things acknowledge him, and he shall direct your way. [Proverbs 3:5, 6]”
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    MANY martial arts practitioners try to build their chi via meditation and various relaxing breathing patterns. Why? To create physiological changes in one's body to improve one's martial arts skills. Some practitioners even go way off the map trying to be superhuman by pointing at people via no-touch knockouts.

    This is a fact.

    Question: How do you think, as a believer, God views this practice? Is this not putting your trust in a self-created image of the mind instead of the one true God? That is idolatry.

    “Trust in the Lord with all your heart; and don't lean on your own understanding. In all things acknowledge him, and he shall direct your way. [Proverbs 3:5, 6]”
    There is also a scripture...though the book, chapter and verse elude me at this point (not nearly enough coffee, but I'd prolly look in Proverbs first)...that were it not for Gods illumination of the mind, man would not know the difference between gold and dirt. And again, "Every good and perfect gift is from God." I would consider deeper or more functional understandings of the energy of life a good thing, personally.

    God created rocks, trees, and raccoons. They are not innately good or evil; yet, they are part of the perfection of his creation. God created us, our genome, and the mechanisms through which life flows through our bodies, and connects us to the world he left us in custodial charge of. Chi is nothing more than one of those components of creation, made by God, and existent as a force in our universe just as much as gravity or magnetic fields. Yesterday, magnets, chemistry and mathematics were the dominion of witches, wizards, and alchemists. But exploration revealed that what we thought was magic was in fact nothing more than component parts of the universe God created. Part of the Made, as put out there by the Maker.

    We explore new continents, and outer space, with the understanding that it is part of the unseen pre-made; God put it there, we just ain't seen it yet. Inner space, and the as-of-yet unidentified or unclassified energies flowing therein, are nothing more than more of the same. Made by the Grand Architect, left to us as part of our heritage as custodians and caretakers of the earth under His charge to Adam and the human race. Exploring Chi, as I see it, is no more an act of idolotry than exploring the Grand Canyon. As long as we remember to "in all things, glorify God" ...recalling that idolatry is placing an import on something before your commitment to Christ; anything that takes first place over living your life as the hands Christ has to work with. Meaning the subject of idolatry can be money, a career, a hobby, a car, ... it doesn't have to be an esoteric eastern idea of energy flow. Even some of the early Calvinists got that.

    Regards,

    Dave

    PS -- I know several devout Chinese Christians who steadfastly believe the function of Chi is evidence of the Holy Spirit...Gods infusion of His will through all life. Raised both Christian and Eastern, they see no contradiction. One (Chi) proves the other (God). I'm reminded of Thomas Aquinas' discussion of stumbling over a stone, versus stumbling over a watch. If we stumble over a watch, we look at the component parts, and realize there must have been a watch-maker...someone who fashioned the gears and springs, and assembled the parts with intent of purpose. We stumble over the rock, and our lack of understanding causes us to believe there is no complex order of purpose or design. Yet, another might stumble over that same rock, and wonder at it's complexity the same way we wonder over the watch.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    Hi Friend,

    Here is a web definition of Chi:

    "in Eastern philosophies, the energy that connects and animates everything in the universe; includes both individual qi (personal life force) and universal qi, which are coextensive through the practice of mind‑body disciplines, such as traditional meditation, aikido, and tai chi."

    You know I love ya like a brother, but just wanted to let you know that as a Christian, seeking after chi energy in martial arts or otherwise is idolatry plain and simple.
    I agree Brother Jamie, Im not searching for it. I don't believe anything is possible with out Christ providing it. Since I here so much about it I wanted to ask the questions.
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    MANY martial arts practitioners try to build their chi via meditation and various relaxing breathing patterns. Why?
    I think that one of the things that people down through the centuries have realized about the nature of this 'energy' Chi is that you cannot 'use' it if your body or mind are tense. That it's nature is fluid and dynamic. If you, then, are tense, you oppose that energy. Opposition contradicts the "use" of anything. The way that people unwind and release tension in mind and body, especially in the east, is through 'meditation'. Meditation is a complex subject because there are SO many means, methods, ways and intents that can be ascribed to it. There are LOTS of forms of meditation that are religious in nature. Those are not the means ascribed for the cultivation or 'use' of Chi. The forms of meditation that I'm familiar with and have read about from others who are MUCH more into this whole subject than I am, have nothing to do with any religion, eastern or western. They can be likened to physical exercise. It's really about as simple as that. It doesn't go against any Christian doctrine to 'exercise' the mind. In fact, I think it is a big part of being a Christian to discipline our minds, and 'exercise' is a discipline. ((Though Christian mental discipline has to do with guarding our thoughts & habits, being sensitive/discerning of sin and avoiding it, continuing in prayer and keeping the Word of God in the forefront of our minds. Love of God, man and self, in that order; all of the Law and the Prophets hinge on this.))
    Some practitioners even go way off the map trying to be superhuman by pointing at people via no-touch knockouts.
    AGREED!!!
    Those charlatans are liars and trying to decieve for money & glory. I don't agree with them at all. I've even seen people do many other "tricks" and try to say that it was the power of "Chi" and their mastery over it. All manner of things, and they are Rediculous.
    But people have pulled hoaxes and tricks with science too...
    it doesn't make science wrong or bad or anti-Christian.
    Bearing false witness, lying, decieving........those are wrong, no matter the subject or purpose; Chi, science, politics, religion.....etc. etc.

    Question: How do you think, as a believer, God views this practice? Is this not putting your trust in a self-created image of the mind instead of the one true God? That is idolatry.
    Well, I can't speak for God. But I am a Christian whose full faith is in God as my creator and redeemer! I'm in the scriptures and on my knees, but never enough.
    Based on what I know of God through scripture study and prayer/meditation life.....I would have to presume that God sees:
    1. People engaging in the pursuit of knowledge on "chi" as mankind groping in the darkness to understand the world around him and himself. Our knowledge is imperfect, but we do have a very natural and God given need to know. The concept of "Chi" is manmade, no doubt about it. But so is the concept of electricity....yet via mans manipulation of electricity, you are able to read the words I type and know what I'm thinking ALL the way over where YOU live from where I live. The fact that our knowledge isn't perfect is not a cause for us to stop trying to understand, but a call to try harder.
    2. People engaging in "meditation"...
    I think God must view this pretty much the same way He must view me doing push-ups....profiting the body (in this case the mind) little. But it is profitable. It's 'exercise' not indoctrination into anything that's counter to God's word or the Saving Grace through Christ and the sanctification through his Gospel.
    3. People LYING and trying to say that they can use Chi to knock people out without physical contact:
    ...He views liars as liars, sinners in their sin.
    Chi isn't the cause of their sin, and Chi isn't innately sinful because they do that. Just like the fact that Paper isn't wrong, sinful or anti-God because cults type up their doctrines on it and Penthouse publishes explicit pornography on it. Paper isn't wrong or sinful, it's being used for those ends though.

    Like I said, I cannot 'speak for God', as NO man but a prophet or Christ himself.....
    But if I had to guess, these are my guesses.

    Proverbs 3:5-6 is one of my favorites!!!!!
    But it doesn't mean we can't "trust" on things in our lives or in our world around us to fulfill their intended purpose.
    “Trust in the Lord with all your heart; and don't lean on your own understanding. In all things acknowledge him, and he shall direct your way. [Proverbs 3:5, 6]”
    I Do Trust in God! Absolutely.
    Trusting in God for Truth, Salvation, Sanctification and our Resurection is KEY. I'm sure you know that.
    But I trust in medicine, so far as it's in line with the Will of God for me to be healed.
    I trust in my car (to an extent) to not blow up when I turn the key.
    I trust in the chair I'm sitting on to hold me up and not let me crash down on my tail bone.

    These things aren't idols. They are creations of God that have been 'made real' by the hands of man.
    I also trust that gravity won't suddenly reverse and I go zipping out into the stratusphere. (sp?) It too is a creation of God, but not manipulated or realized by the hands of man....
    but putting my trust in the 'laws' of nature....does not mean that I don't trust God. Trusting that gravity won't reverse is trusting that a mechanism that God put in place isn't going to change until God changes it. But I'll still behave in a way that agrees with my "belief" in gravity and nature.
    I'm NOT going against Proverbs 3:5-6 in doing this either. It doesn't make either "Nature" or "gravity" into an Idol. Nor does it mean or imply that I'm putting my trust in nature or gravity before my Trust in God. If God wanted to reverse gravity, it'd be done. Period.
    If God wanted there to be "Chi" then there is.
    period...

    That's just how I see it.

    Your Brother
    John
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ((if you use "FaceBook", look me up there by name))
    "Striving for success without hard work is like trying to harvest where you haven't planted"
    ~ David Bly

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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    After having a visit from Mr. Finn, he opened up my mind to "Chi." I have bought Mrs. Tatum DVD on Chi, so now I am just waiting. I have really never believed in Chi until now.
    "To hear is to doubt. To see is to be deceived. But to feel is to believe." -- SGM Ed Parker

    "Sic vis pacem parabellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." -- "The Punisher"


    "Praying Mantis, very good. . . For catching bugs." --Jackie Chan

    "A horse stance is great for taking a dump" --Jet Li

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    Default Re: Does Chi enhance power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    You know I love ya like a brother, but just wanted to let you know that as a Christian, seeking after chi energy in martial arts or otherwise is idolatry plain and simple.
    I have a very different outlook than you do, being essentially an ex-catholic brought up in a pretty traditional and conservative family. I rebelled and disagreed with much of it as far back as I can remember, and when I grew older and moved out on my own, I made a deliberate decision to distance myself from organized religion. At the same time, I consider myself a fairly spiritual person, but it's personal and I don't subscribe to what the Church tells me I must. I've made my spirituality my own journey. I'm just giving a little background so you might better understand where I am coming from regarding these issues, and I'm not intending this to be an attack on your faith. I firmly believe that different people must find their sprituality in a way that works for them and that is not the same for everyone.

    That being said, I fail to see any idolatry in the exercise of qi development, be it in martial training or Chinese medical practice. Nothing is being worshipped, adored, nor slavishly devoted to. It's an exercise that seems to give real benefits, if you are committed to its practice. In this sense it is little different from your physical training in your martial arts. You train regularly to keep your skills strong and sharp, and it takes consistent effort. Same thing with exercises like qi-gong. The only difference is that physical exercises are more obvious and easier to see the progress. Qi-gong is more subtle and tricky and elusive. But nobody who has any level of understanding claims qi-gong or qi is a divine being or demigod or god or God or Allah, or Buddha, or whatever.
    Michael


    de gustibus non disputante est.
    Negative Douche Bag Number One

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