Associations

[MARSHALLS KENPO]

Ok here is the question:

With so many associations out there, what would you look for as a primary consideration to joining.

Please do not post association names, names of people who belong to it, or anything that could be considered insulting.

I am not asking why anyone left association X.

Thanks

[flying crane]

I guess by default I belong my lineage association. Beyond that, I'm not a joiner. I don't really have any interest in belonging to a formalized association of any kind.

[Florian Lang]

Honestly, I'm personally trying to stay OUT of associations. They only exist because of greed/politics. If it weren't for that, people wouldn't worry about associations, they'd just shut up and train. All that associations do is seperate people into "us and them" rather than unifying them as kenpo students. (No offense to anyone who does the association thing; it just seems kind of pointless to me)

As for joining... if the association offered some kinds of benefits to the individual, I'd see that as a logical reason. Other than that, I can't really see the point.

[Celtic_Crippler]

Ok here is the question:

With so many associations out there, what would you look for as a primary consideration to joining.

Please do not post association names, names of people who belong to it, or anything that could be considered insulting.

I am not asking why anyone left association X.

Thanks

In regards to the question, I'd have to say I'd consider the organizations legitimacy: Is it lead by some guy that claims to know the arts or by someone who is certified in some way. Of course, certification often comes from association with an organization! DOH!

Reputation can do a lot. For instance, if an instructor was not certified through an organization, their reputation as a fighter (many wins on the local circuit for example) could serve to give his school or organization legitimacy.

General attitudes of the members would have an affect on my decision. But that goes with me finding something that's a good "fit" for me. That's true for everyone.

Oh yeah...the curriculum! That would most definately be a consideration.

I'm sure there's others....just a few to get things rolling.

[RDCParker]

The school I train at is not part of any organization, and I feel that I'm not missing anything. My instructor encourages us to get out there and take seminars and meet other kenpo practitioners, regardless of their association. While I admit that the prospect of being part of a "club" is inviting, I wouldn't want my membership to any one organization jeopardize the bigger picture, which is camaraderie with all my fellow kenpoists.

Perhaps I may join an organization one day, never know what will happen in the future... but for now, I'm happy to be free to meet and socialize and learn from whomever, without worrying about what my "parent" may think. And even if I do join an org, I won't let all that stop me.

[Gajewski]

if i was with a school or association that did not want me to interact with other associations or instructors i would leave...

[Ray]

I enjoy interacting with others in my organization, getting their take on kenpo and working out with them whenever I can make it to one of the other schools.

[Rob Broad]

There is nothing wrong with associations and organizations. It is how some misuse the power of the of the association that is wrong.

An association should be more than just somene you have to pay yearly dues to. It should have definite and destinct benefits for its members as well serve as a beacon for the arts.

Possible Benefits:

• Standardization of requirements for all within the association
• Advancement for students beyond Black Belt
• Recognition of rank from school within the association
• Pooling of resources for better pricing - An associatin can purchase school/student insurance cheaper because of sheer numbers. The same could be done with suppliers.
• Camp, seminars, and tournaments
• Professionally produced reference materials

[MARSHALLS KENPO]

There is nothing wrong with associations and organizations. It is how some misuse the power of the of the association that is wrong.

An association should be more than just somene you have to pay yearly dues to. It should have definite and destinct benefits for its members as well serve as a beacon for the arts.

Possible Benefits:

• Standardization of requirements for all within the association
• Advancement for students beyond Black Belt
• Recognition of rank from school within the association
• Pooling of resources for better pricing - An associatin can purchase school/student insurance cheaper because of sheer numbers. The same could be done with suppliers.
• Camp, seminars, and tournaments
• Professionally produced reference materials

I agree sir. Associations / Organizations should be there to serve the members, just as an instructor serves the student. That being said members should be willing to give back in some way. Money is an operational cost, just like class tution. However I dont feel that an association should dictate who and where you may wish to train.

[Kenpo Gary]

Support and service are the only reasons to belong to an association. Too many out there want your money with little or nothing in return. Years ago I joined an association that promised much and delivered nothing, absolutely nothing. Never so much as received a newsletter or anything, then I get a letter after a year telling me it is time to renew. I hope they weren't holding their breath for my renewal, because I never submitted it.

Kenpo Gary

[don bohrer]

There is nothing wrong with associations and organizations. It is how some misuse the power of the of the association that is wrong.

An association should be more than just somene you have to pay yearly dues to. It should have definite and destinct benefits for its members as well serve as a beacon for the arts.

Possible Benefits:

• Standardization of requirements for all within the association
• Advancement for students beyond Black Belt
• Recognition of rank from school within the association
• Pooling of resources for better pricing - An associatin can purchase school/student insurance cheaper because of sheer numbers. The same could be done with suppliers.
• Camp, seminars, and tournaments
• Professionally produced reference materials

Excellent summary Sir. Your first point hits it for me.

I study Iaido (Araki) at the local college but is headquartered in Japan. When the head sensei visits we receive any stylization changes and corrections to technique that is needed. Keeps everyone lock in step/

don (el paso)

[Blindside]

I don't really believe in associations. The only relationship that is particularly important is the one between the student and instructor, and when I choose a new instructor I do so on the quality of that instructor. If I was part of a particular association and I moved to a new area, and I had the choice between a mediocre instructor of "my" organization and an excellent one from outside it, I would choose the better instructor. Having to stay with a fixed curricullum just isn't all that important to me.

Lamont

[Dianhsuhe]

This must be an EPAK thing...Is it because of the splintering that one must decide who to go with?

In Kara-Ho Kempo there is one system, and just one "association". Basically a big family...

I would thing one would join an association to further ones training. Being with a Sensei that does not belong to any association or group is great until he has nothing more to teach you.

[Gajewski]

yeah its a epak thing... there are so many groups out there its crazy... im sure alot of other styles have done the same thing.. in fact if they had not done the same thing we might not be doing the styles we do know.. if ya know what im saying.....

[Blindside]

Being with a Sensei that does not belong to any association or group is great until he has nothing more to teach you.

But this is true whether you are in an association or not, either way you are forced to find a new teacher. An organization may make it more obvious where to search for your next teacher, but it doesn't guarantee quality.

[MDSmith]

I think avaliability has alot to do with it. If you want to do kenpo and the only school in the are is affiliated with association x then that where's you end up. Also, I would be more concerned about the instructor then the association. I recently changed instructors, and my new instructor has his own association. This had nothing to do with my decision, I went to him beacuse I feel that he's the best in my area, and I like his teaching style.

[toejoe2k]

yeah its a epak thing... there are so many groups out there its crazy... im sure alot of other styles have done the same thing.. in fact if they had not done the same thing we might not be doing the styles we do know.. if ya know what im saying.....

It's rather common through the Korean arts and some of the Japanese systems to be heavily involved with associations. I never really cared for it.

Before I decided to close my jujitsu school, I was looking for an association that might offer sport jujitsu tournatments...Ernie Boggs style tournies...as there are none in Texas. I would love to have the time to develop, promote, and facilitate those types of tournies but, the upper east coast has a great deal more interest in that type of thing than what can be found here. It's still something I'm considering.

[amylong]

I didn't really even know about associations until a few years ago. I had been in one for years (through my school) and didn't even know it.

The association didn't do anything for me except the head of it was brought in for seminars twice a year. I never got a newsletter either.

If I had an association, I'd be sure that every member was on the list and would get a personalized mailing.

The standardization of the curriculum is a big one. Tara came from one and I came from another and we're always saying, "And how do you do it?"

I was briefly part of another organization recently and the only thing it did, other than take my money, was make sure all of our gi patches looked the same.

Right now, I joined one very loose association. They are there to help with certificates and testing as needed. No fees unless you need something.

I'm fine without any current affiliation. I now get to learn from whoever I want.

--Amy

[John M. La Tourrette]

Honestly, I'm personally trying to stay OUT of associations. They only exist because of greed/politics. If it weren't for that, people wouldn't worry about associations, they'd just shut up and train. All that associations do is seperate people into "us and them" rather than unifying them as kenpo students. (No offense to anyone who does the association thing; it just seems kind of pointless to me)

As for joining... if the association offered some kinds of benefits to the individual, I'd see that as a logical reason. Other than that, I can't really see the point.

Well stretching that word association into all associations rather than kenpo associations, where there are already might be negative unconscious associations with that word associations might be good to do.

And I do belong to a few associations.

Mainly because if you don't you can't get the state certification to practice. Without that you are doomed to fly under the radar.

Hopefully martial arts will not become that deeply controlled and regulated by the state and the government.

There is a big difference between mandatory, or by choice.

By choice? I only belong to one association.

Dr. John M. La Tourrette

[toejoe2k]

Well stretching that word association into all associations rather than kenpo associations, where there are already might be negative unconscious associations with that word associations might be good to do.

And I do belong to a few associations.

Mainly because if you don't you can't get the state certification to practice. Without that you are doomed to fly under the radar.

Hopefully martial arts will not become that deeply controlled and regulated by the state and the government.

There is a big difference between mandatory, or by choice.

By choice? I only belong to one association.

Dr. John M. La Tourrette

Just curious; what state do you live in that regulates your right to practice? I'd like to know so that I don't ever move there (for that reason). I don't care to have anyone or any entity regulating my teaching or training practices.