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Thread: Do you use the leopard punch?

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    Default Do you use the leopard punch?

    Dear Forum Posters:

    I'm currently working on a forrn that has a leopard punch sequence to strike the throat area after the opponents head has been snapped back by a rising elbow. The punch felt funny to do at first but after I've been working it on the bag for a time it dosen't feel too bad now.

    How do you all feel about this punch? Is it an effective weapon for a specialized application as in a throat strike or the solar plexus? Where else might this punch be used? How would you suggest developing penetration to softer vital area of the body?

    Thanks for your suggestions!

    Nelson

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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Dear Forum Posters:

    I'm currently working on a forrn that has a leopard punch sequence to strike the throat area after the opponents head has been snapped back by a rising elbow. The punch felt funny to do at first but after I've been working it on the bag for a time it dosen't feel too bad now.

    How do you all feel about this punch? Is it an effective weapon for a specialized application as in a throat strike or the solar plexus? Where else might this punch be used? How would you suggest developing penetration to softer vital area of the body?

    Thanks for your suggestions!

    Nelson
    I have learned three different "leopard punches" from three different systems. Sounds to me like you amy be executing a half-fist, described as a "leopard punch" in Secrets of Chinese Karate? Folks may use exactly what you use, yet call it something different. Why don't you describe the punch and we'll be able to give you a more informed answer.

    Respects,
    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Institute
    www.trianglekenpo.com

    "I know Kenpo!" "Cool... do you know how to use it?"

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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by bdparsons View Post
    I have learned three different "leopard punches" from three different systems. Sounds to me like you amy be executing a half-fist, described as a "leopard punch" in Secrets of Chinese Karate? Folks may use exactly what you use, yet call it something different. Why don't you describe the punch and we'll be able to give you a more informed answer.

    Respects,
    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Institute
    I use the half fist
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    nelson is offline
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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Dear Kenpo brothers and sisters:

    The Leopard punch that I am referring to is performed by curling the fingers wth the second joint and resting the finger tips on the area immediately below the fingers. The striking surface is V shaped and uses the second set of knuckles for striking. The thumb is tucked away below the folded fingers.

    I hope this descrition helps!

    The target is on soft tissue area where penetration is easier. The idea of using a leopard punch to strike to the throat stems from it uses less surface area than a full fist and as such can fit in a smaller space.

    Nelson Kari

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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Dear Forum Posters:

    I'm currently working on a forrn that has a leopard punch sequence to strike the throat area after the opponents head has been snapped back by a rising elbow. The punch felt funny to do at first but after I've been working it on the bag for a time it dosen't feel too bad now.

    How do you all feel about this punch? Is it an effective weapon for a specialized application as in a throat strike or the solar plexus? Where else might this punch be used? How would you suggest developing penetration to softer vital area of the body?

    Thanks for your suggestions!

    Nelson
    The leoapard strike, assuming you are referring to the half-fist is lethal when executed to the throat area, but your life had better be in serious danger if you use it or you might be spending the better half of your life behind bars.

    In Kenpo, our primary target is the throat area (ie. Striking Serpent's Head, Heavenly Ascent). While it could be used to other soft areas, I don't think it would be my primary choice. For example, I would rather use a middle-knuckle strike to the armpit or solar plexus because if your leopard strike does not hit the precise intended target, those knuckles will break bigtime.
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    Thumbs up Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    In Kenpo, our primary target is the throat area (ie. Striking Serpent's Head, Heavenly Ascent).
    Oh THAT leopard punch! I didn't know it was called that, I have referred to it as a four-knuckle fist and even a "bear hand". I actually like this strike. Besides the throat I have also used it to target the kidney as well as (on rare occasions) the solar plexus. I don't know, I guess it has always felt good to me.
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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Sure, we call it a "Leopard's paw" since it looks like one..LOL

    Soft targets like throat and armpit- I prefer knife hand or shuto strikes to the throat...
    The above is just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    We call it a half-fist, and we pretty much only use it to the throat.
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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Dear Kenpo brothers and sisters:

    AS most of you are aware I practice for want of a better word "Combat" or "Street" kenpo and do use stikes that are lethal in LOD situations.
    As far as lethality goes don't think that your off the hook if you nail some dude with an old fashioned right cross and he goes down striking his head on the floor killing him in the process. A doctor friend told me many years ago that some folks die from a mere tap on the head while others can withstand take the effect of a horrendus concussion.

    The kidney shot was a good choice for this punch. I like the middle knuckle strike as well. My old sensei, Mike Sanders taught me to use a single knuckle stike above your opponents eye to cause bleeding and obscure vision.

    How do you all work to develop the leopard punch?

    Nelson

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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    We work to develop it with bag drills as well as hand conditioning.

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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    I love the half fist it is ideal for sneaking in between the chin and chest, when their head is slightly forward.
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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by domino3700 View Post
    Besides the throat I have also used it to target the kidney as well as (on rare occasions) the solar plexus.
    Those targets can be risky in terms of injury with that choice of weapon.
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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    The kidney shot was a good choice for this punch.
    I am not in agreement.

    Could you name some American Kenpo techniques that use a half-fist to the kidney? Why that choice of weapon over others (ie. middle knuckle, handsword, heelpalm)?
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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    I love the half fist it is ideal for sneaking in between the chin and chest, when their head is slightly forward.
    Agreed, as per Heavenly Ascent for example.
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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    I am not in agreement.

    Could you name some American Kenpo techniques that use a half-fist to the kidney? Why that choice of weapon over others (ie. middle knuckle, handsword, heelpalm)?
    I do understand your position that the strike could cause self injury if the wrong target is hit, and I agree. As far as kenpo techs that use this to target the kidney, I can think of none. The palm heel or back fist, as well as a straight punch, are also great techniques for the kidney, and probably safer to use.

    Compared to a full clenched fist for example, I look at the half fist as a "sharper" weapon, able to deliver a more focused strike while still retaining some of the stability of a full fist. Obviously a middle-knuckle strike ( or a "one-knuckle fist") would be even "sharper" than this, so basically it all boils down to choices.

    I wouldn't necessarily choose the half fist over these. I merely see it as another weapon choice, and one that feels good to use... especially when I've blocked a punch high and pushed the opponent back, and that kidney area is opened up nice and wide for my half fist to cut in deep.
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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Dear Kenpo brothers and sisters:

    As far as lethality goes don't think that your off the hook if you nail some dude with an old fashioned right cross and he goes down striking his head on the floor killing him in the process.
    Nelson
    no. I've heard of people being prosecuted for this very thing. Didn't mean to kill the guy, but ya killed the guy. Maybe not first degree murder, but you might get second degree, or manslaughter. Still would be enough to wreck your day.

    You might need to use a lethal technique someday to save your life. If you do, you need to be able to defend that need in front of a jury. Did you REALLY need to kill the guy, to stop him from killing you or your wife? You better have good reasons why, and be able to show that non-lethal actions would not have been good enough.

    If you were just brawling, even if he started it, and you kill him accidentally this way, you could be convicted of second degree murder or manslaughter.
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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    I am not in agreement.

    Could you name some American Kenpo techniques that use a half-fist to the kidney? Why that choice of weapon over others (ie. middle knuckle, handsword, heelpalm)?
    I wouldn't discount an idea based on it not being found in a formalized technique. Many very powerful techniques and ideas are not found in any formalized kenpo techniques.

    At the same time, I happen to agree that the kidney seems like a poor target for this kind of fist. It might be an effective shot, but there is a risk of injury to the hand when hitting a solid target on the torso.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    I used the leopard fist while under the TraCO system. Leopard is supposed to be close, very fast and violent. Different from a Tigers perspective. If you open a leopard hand you'll have a tiger claw. Each different and unique.

    I prefer to keep my hand open or close fist. Most of the specialized hand formations (tools) require understanding and proper training to use effectively. Their additions to various martial arts had a purpose. I'm sure their use in kata and techs doesn't prepare one for the structural integrity or many of the proper target areas.

    don (el paso)
    Daffy, fighting with his $1.25 quarter staff : "Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!" (quarter staff bounces off log, bending his beak. He straightens it back to normal, and starts speaking to himself) "Something's amiss here... hmm, let me run through it. Ho, haha, guard, turn, parry, dodge, spin, ha, thrust." (beak bends again) "Got it." (straightens beak, and starts his fighting moves again.) "Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin!"

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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    I've always held that the one should use the best weapon once the target has been considered. In the case of the leopard punch, a soft target would be best due to the high risk of injury.

    That being said, the throat and groin would be about it....otherwise there are much better weapons for other targets....
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    Default Re: Do you use the leopard punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    I've always held that the one should use the best weapon once the target has been considered. In the case of the leopard punch, a soft target would be best due to the high risk of injury.

    That being said, the throat and groin would be about it....otherwise there are much better weapons for other targets....
    I do believe the problem is with the aggression, speed, distance and your state of mind at the time of the attack. Most likely you'll won't have time to think "OK... I'm going to use a spear hand and poke it under his floating rib and..... "

    In the best of times your training will kick in and save your bacon. On that note we fight how we train. Hopefully your training is solid and you've done the mat time.

    I do sub the supported middle knuckle for the larger index knuckle when striking the solor plexes, and a few other targets. To me it's already there and I just have to point with my index knuckle when throwing a punch. Feels good and I think the penetrating power I get is good.
    Daffy, fighting with his $1.25 quarter staff : "Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!" (quarter staff bounces off log, bending his beak. He straightens it back to normal, and starts speaking to himself) "Something's amiss here... hmm, let me run through it. Ho, haha, guard, turn, parry, dodge, spin, ha, thrust." (beak bends again) "Got it." (straightens beak, and starts his fighting moves again.) "Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin!"

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