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    Default Atmosphere of coaching

    In one of Bob White's seminars, he provided us with written information and one of the quotes he had was, "Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care."

    I like this. He talked about fostering an atmosphere of coaching. To clarify, I mean where everybody helps those of any rank. Yellow belts help white belts, black belts help other black belts.

    What do you do in your school (or not do) that is either in favor of or against this concept?

    --Amy
    Last edited by amylong; 09-17-2007 at 09:43 PM. Reason: fixing the quote. :)
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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    In one of Bob White's seminars, he provided us with written information and one of the quotes he had was, "Nobody cares how much you know, until you show how much you care."

    I like this. He talked about fostering an atmosphere of coaching. To clarify, I mean where everybody helps those of any rank. Yellow belts help white belts, black belts help other black belts.

    What do you do in your school (or not do) that is either in favor of or against this concept?

    --Amy
    I am in favor of people helping others.
    I also look at teaching in a different view.
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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    I also look at teaching in a different view.
    In what way?

    And how do you foster an atmosphere of coaching at your school? (If indeed you do.)

    Some schools don't so much. In some schools, only the brown and black belts do any teaching. In some, just the black belts.

    We have most of our adult students come an hour early and all work together while Tara and I do the kids' class. I jump in from time to time to see what they're doing or answer questions, but they all coach each other and compare notes. I love to see that.
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Master bob White stated it very well. Thanks for passing it on to us Amy.

    I am Most Respectfully,
    Sifuroy

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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    In what way?

    And how do you foster an atmosphere of coaching at your school? (If indeed you do.)

    Amy,

    I do the teaching, however I allow the students to work freely together,exchanging ideas,and applications. When I teach,I teach. Then I watch and listen as my students explore the material together. It allows them to learn from the second point of view. I also have them evalute each others forms and techs. By seeing others make mistakes in stances,basics, etc, they tend to think more on their own. It also allows me to see who desires to teach, and I start planing their future development based on my obersvations.
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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Amy,

    I do the teaching, however I allow the students to work freely together,exchanging ideas,and applications. When I teach,I teach. Then I watch and listen as my students explore the material together. It allows them to learn from the second point of view. I also have them evaluate each others forms and techs. By seeing others make mistakes in stances,basics, etc, they tend to think more on their own. It also allows me to see who desires to teach, and I start planing their future development based on my observations.

    That's great. I don't have my students TEACH the techniques (although they often do anyway. Very annoying since I often have to fix it.), but they certainly do work together. I like that too.

    I notice that when one student is reviewing a kata or technique, they will talk it out and make it clearer for themselves.

    I agree that it helps see who the natural teachers are. Hopefully, with nudging, it'll urge the less natural teachers (unnatural?) to get more practice.


    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    "Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care."
    that is really a clever statement. amy, thanks for sharing it with us.

    i like to see all students helping each other and working through things. it beats 'spoon feeding' everything and fosters experimentation and experiential development. i like to think that we all learn from mistakes, so the more mistakes the more learning thats going on. yes, we as teachers set the model for corrections and make sure that students can explain what they are doing, and sometimes have to reign it in a bit to get back on track... but people need a little freedom.

    And ESPECIALLY with the young'uns... i have my 6-7-8 year olds LEARNING to do the same thing. WHY? Kids gotta learn how to give help without being bossy and obnoxious. Kids gotta learn how to receive help from peers without feeling inferior/picked on. Most of these kids have little/no experience giving or receiving help from parents or their school teachers, and generally have to learn how to handle it as a learning method.

    OH yeah, belts don't count. EVERYBODY learns and accepts learning from EVERYBODY!

    pete.
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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    In one of Bob White's seminars, he provided us with written information and one of the quotes he had was, "Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care."

    I like this. He talked about fostering an atmosphere of coaching. To clarify, I mean where everybody helps those of any rank. Yellow belts help white belts, black belts help other black belts.

    What do you do in your school (or not do) that is either in favor of or against this concept?

    --Amy
    That's exactly the way it is in our school. Rank may represent some skill and knowledge in the system, but it does not represent overall intelligence or common sense.

    Everybody has a unique perspective and I believe it's to the greater benefit of all to provide an atmosphere where anyone, regardless of rank, will feel comfortable sharing or asking questions of the others.

    I know there have been times when a white belt would ask about something that previously had not occured to me giving a technique or other material a new dimension. Don't forget, they see the art with "new eyes" and that can be an asset to all who attend class.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Thumbs up Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by pete
    belts don't count. EVERYBODY learns and accepts learning from EVERYBODY!
    Sigh....how I wish this were true at every school. Unfortunately, at my old Kenpo school, which had more of a traditional MA flavor, only Black/Brown belts were allowed to teach/coach.

    While I personally believe that only Black/Brown belts should be allowed to teach material that is "new" to the student (so that the Head Instructor won't have to "fix it later" as Amy Long stated), I also think that in certain situations, colored belt students who have been studying for a while (at least a couple of years) should be allowed to coach other students on focus mitt drills, or if they are Blue/Green belt level, be allowed to help White-Purple on their forms/techs (assuming that the White-Purple students have already been taught/introduced to the form/tech by an Advanced Rank). This would never be allowed at my old school, but at my current school, where I've been studying for the past 4 yrs, it is allowed & enouraged, & I'm glad that it is.

    I can't speak for my instructor, but I'm guessing that he allows it for the same reasons that others have mentioned here: everyone has a unique perspective, it fosters comraderie & experimentation, helps people learn to receive help without feeling inferior, etc.

    Good thread topic!
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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    In one of Bob White's seminars, he provided us with written information and one of the quotes he had was, "Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care."
    Great quote!!

    I don't agree completely, but in general, I do think he is correct.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post

    I don't agree completely, but in general, I do think he is correct.
    In what way do you not agree?

    My personal view is that I'm not interested in learning from any instructor who is rude or doesn't give a poop. I can get my information from someone who does just as easily.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    ...one of the quotes he had was, "Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care."

    I like this. He talked about fostering an atmosphere of coaching. To clarify, I mean where everybody helps those of any rank. Yellow belts help white belts, black belts help other black belts.

    What do you do in your school (or not do) that is either in favor of or against this concept?
    I'm sorry Amy,

    I'd puke if I had to teach in that "earth like" manner.

    In fact when I go to help out at a Donna Eden seminar, I've got to go and buy a good "KILL" book, after being with those Earth elements for a day or two.

    Different teaching methods for different people.

    Glad your's works for you.

    I like Wood element classes. I like Metal element classes.

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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    My personal view is that I'm not interested in learning from any instructor who is rude or doesn't give a poop. --Amy
    "Rude" is different for different people.

    Some people think that saying the word "poop" is rude.

    Others, if you don't give them "sheet" will think that you don't care.

    I'm curious about what your rapport methods are.

    For example, a great "SENSE OF HUMOR" when you teach helps everyone learn faster, better and with a zing of excitement.

    Being "goody goody", on the other hand does NOT mean they care, it just means they were taught to act that way or they were a "bad person".

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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    Great quote!!

    I don't agree completely, but in general, I do think he is correct.
    It's a quote from Pres. Theodore Roosevelt.
    It is a good one. But like with pretty much ALL quotes, isn't "Universally" true....but generally accurate.


    This is a very good topic. Encouraging students to share what they think on a particular subject is GREAT. You never know what a fresh set of eyes can see in something that you've been overlooking for years. We all bring our own original point of view and unique perspectives to the table. Sharing is what a school is all about, I think.

    Also: one of the most important things in any school is the leadership. This is not just the teacher, but assistants and the highest ranking students. In the Japanese Budo there is a person in the dojo known as the "Sempai", this is essentially the head student....and generally leads the class if the Sensei needs to step out or can't be there. The instructors and the "Sempai" really set the tone of sharing, PERIOD. If their attitude is that you have to have "Thus and such" rank in order to 'share' anything, then that's the air of the school. In some Chinese systems its very open. Often there's not even so much of a set class time, just a group of students that show up at the kwoon to practice and train. The "Teachers" may be there, they may not....no matter......you study and train anyway with whomever will share with you. I like this custom (not the 'no set class time') but then you get into the issue of knowing who's who....knowing whom to listen too and who's full of hot Poo. I think it's best to strike a balance here, let a great deal of sharing go on, but differentiate that there's "what my buddy in class showed me"....and then there's "Here's what sensei expects to see". There's a difference!

    Good topic!

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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Guess I'll be a Philistine here. Caring isn't high up on the charts of an attribute I need in a teacher.

    Will the teacher give me a good amount of attention? Will they meet my expectations and objectives, including working with my very quirky learning style in a way that doesn't frustrate me? How are we both going to accomplish that? That's what I need to know...and that's what I need to see happen.

    To me it doesn't matter what a person knows....if they don't have the proper conduit to share that knowledge with me in a way I can learn, then what they know is useless.

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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    Guess I'll be a Philistine here. Caring isn't high up on the charts of an attribute I need in a teacher.

    Will the teacher give me a good amount of attention? Will they meet my expectations and objectives, including working with my very quirky learning style in a way that doesn't frustrate me? How are we both going to accomplish that? That's what I need to know...and that's what I need to see happen.

    To me it doesn't matter what a person knows....if they don't have the proper conduit to share that knowledge with me in a way I can learn, then what they know is useless.
    Wouldn't they have to care enough to try to discover the proper conduit to sharing that knowledge with you? If they didn't care, why would they bother to try?

    I've had instructors that didn't care. They didn't care if they showed up for class on time, didn't care if you understood the way they presented the info, didn't care if you learned it or not, just plain old didn't care. Who does that benefit? The instructor perhaps, that is if they're able to keep enough students to keep paying the bills. It definatley doesn't benefit the student IMHO.
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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Wouldn't they have to care enough to try to discover the proper conduit to sharing that knowledge with you? If they didn't care, why would they bother to try?

    I've had instructors that didn't care. They didn't care if they showed up for class on time, didn't care if you understood the way they presented the info, didn't care if you learned it or not, just plain old didn't care. Who does that benefit? The instructor perhaps, that is if they're able to keep enough students to keep paying the bills. It definatley doesn't benefit the student IMHO.
    I've had instructors that really played up the "caring" aspect of it. Yes, they did care. Yes, they did a lot to build a good vibe and good atmosphere to the school. They really play up their school as a great place to be....they really wanted me to know how much they care.

    As opposed to now...Sensei isn't big in to letting me know how much he cares. He calls his school a dungeon...that description fits fairly well. He can be one helluva mean bastard. But the whole package...it all works for me...somehow. Either that or I'm becoming a very twisted person....LOL!!

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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    Guess I'll be a Philistine here. Caring isn't high up on the charts of an attribute I need in a teacher.

    Will the teacher give me a good amount of attention? Will they meet my expectations and objectives, including working with my very quirky learning style in a way that doesn't frustrate me? How are we both going to accomplish that? That's what I need to know...and that's what I need to see happen.

    To me it doesn't matter what a person knows....if they don't have the proper conduit to share that knowledge with me in a way I can learn, then what they know is useless.
    I've heard about and been around instructors that didn't care, and trust me, it makes a HUGE difference. I think it makes THE difference. I'm not saying your instructor needs to be Oprah with a Black Belt on... they don't need to be "Mr. Nice" or working to please the students; just that they're conscientious in how they do what they do and are motivated by the best of intentions for the students benefit.

    I know of a high ranking instructor that many flock too for instruction because of WHO he is, but he looses a great many of them due to his lack of genuine 'care'. It's one of the biggest reasons he doesn't really rise to the absolute top of the heap! He's missing a central ingredient.

    ...care.

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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    [quote=Brother John;71052]I've heard about and been around instructors that didn't care, and trust me, it makes a HUGE difference. I think it makes THE difference. I'm not saying your instructor needs to be Oprah with a Black Belt on... they don't need to be "Mr. Nice" or working to please the students; just that they're conscientious in how they do what they do and are motivated by the best of intentions for the students benefit.

    I know of a high ranking instructor that many flock too for instruction because of WHO he is, but he looses a great many of them due to his lack of genuine 'care'. It's one of the biggest reasons he doesn't really rise to the absolute top of the heap! He's missing a central ingredient.

    ...care./quote]

    I had a student that went to his privates, and his groups, but just would not go to sparring class. This was after a year of training. He knew what to do but was afraid.

    And I really cared.

    I wanted him to learn how-to-fight, and in learning how-to-fight to get past that fear barrior, or he was wasting his time, my time, and his money.

    So I took him into a closed room, and we sparred.

    In fact I started slapping the holy snot out of him.

    At first he groveled.

    Then he ranted.

    Then he cursed me.

    Then he got real, real angry with me.

    Then he attempted to kill me.

    So my "caring" tactic did work.

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    Default Re: Atmosphere of coaching

    Sensei: (pointing to a 2" bruise on my arm) Where did you get that bruise?

    Me: From you, sir.

    Sensei: Me? How?

    Me: Wednesday, from that lock I tapped out of. Only time I've tapped since I've been here sir.

    Sensei: That lock did that?

    Me: Yes sir.

    Sensei: *applies a nerve strike to the area of the bruise* Oh. I'll be hitting that all day. I have a target now.

    Me: (unprintable)

    Sensei: *laughs*

    Does he care? Enough to teach me, yes. He can be a real ******* too. At least he has good control.

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