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Thread: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

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    Default FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    In a Filipino arts discussion, someone told me they believe that if you aren't an advocate of firearms for defensive purposes, you have no business studying, practicing or promoting Filipino Martial Arts.

    The reasons stated were that the FMAs are for combat and survival.

    Kenpo isn't exactly an art for playing nice either.

    What do you think of the statement?

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    I think that it's not possible to ALWAYS have a firearm handy for defensive purposes. However, I believe firearms are yet another tool for one's overall protection and defense.

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    In a Filipino arts discussion, someone told me they believe that if you aren't an advocate of firearms for defensive purposes, you have no business studying, practicing or promoting Filipino Martial Arts. ... What do you think of the statement?
    I'd guess that he's talking about a practical, as opposed to political or philosophical, aproach to the arts. They are an available tool that you need to learn to use. I doubt he was saying always carry a firearm, any more than any FMAist would say "don't ever get caught out 'n about without yer sticks!"

    I'd disagree because his statement is too absolute. Not everyone should have a firearm- if you couldn't pull the trigger, it is a liability instead of an asset. That's an issue of individual morality, which I think he's overlooked.

    Dan C
    There are things that are worth knowing for their own sake, worth finding for the pure joy of discovery.

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    not forgetting that in some countries it is illegal to own/carry firearms...

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Good points.

    Let me over dramatize for a second. We wouldn't expect a Yellow Belt to be able to physically deal with a mob all by themselves? So why would we expect a person without training to deal with a firearm in a proper fashion in an aggressive situation?

    Training, practice, comfort with the weapon all of it and more variables come into play. To say that all FMA's have to promote firearms for defense of they have no business being in the doing anything with FMA's is ridiculous! Do I happen to strongly believe that firearms can be a viable for defense, ABSOLUTELY! To people that don't, I feel that they are entitled to their opinion. I may not convince them otherwise and I know that they won't convince me otherwise and as long as we can respect each others opinions I don't see a problem.
    "Change is not necessary...Survival is not mandatory" - W. Edward Deming

    "When I hit....I hit the whole enchilada" - Master David Leung

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    i dont think it's exactly a matter of training on how to USE a weapon.. but if you learn about guns.. you have a better chance on using one if you can disarm someone.. as well as know to recognize the type of firearm, know it's strengths and weaknesses, use it (obviously), check if the safety is on, check if it's loaded, unload the clip. etc.

    we learn to use sticks and knives.. and how to disarm them.. wouldnt it make sense to learn how to fire a gun correctly, or at least how to unload a clip or switch the safety? i wouldnt dream of using a knife (more of a club man myself) on someone. ugh.. but i would train to use one.

    i detest guns.. but i'd learn how to use one if i had the opportunity..
    Brian Sheets
    VKKSI Kenpo 1st Black

    Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it." ~ Unknown
    "Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting, but never hit soft." Theodore Roosevelt



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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    i don't know if necessary to 'avocate' use of firearms, but as martial artists we should at least familiarize ourselves with them. after all, most of the 'Rod' techniques involve taking the pistol away from the assailant and if there's one thing more dangerous than a person with a gun, it's a person with a gun who has no idea what to do with it.

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    In a Filipino arts discussion, someone told me they believe that if you aren't an advocate of firearms for defensive purposes, you have no business studying, practicing or promoting Filipino Martial Arts.

    The reasons stated were that the FMAs are for combat and survival.

    What do you think of the statement?
    They are very LIMITED in their view of the world, and the vast amount of different reasons people train in ANY martial art.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    Ps. Nothing like a cocked and locked gun for making people pay attention, but there are OTHER attributes.

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    not forgetting that in some countries it is illegal to own/carry firearms...
    There is a difference between what is legal now, what was legal in the past, and what will be legal tomorrow...and what "you personally choose" to do.

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1point21Jigowatts View Post
    i don't know if necessary to 'avocate' use of firearms, but as martial artists we should at least familiarize ourselves with them. after all, most of the 'Rod' techniques involve taking the pistol away from the assailant and if there's one thing more dangerous than a person with a gun, it's a person with a gun who has no idea what to do with it.
    LOL.

    So after we take it away from them, should we give it back to them?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Quote Originally Posted by madeku View Post
    i detest guns.. but i'd learn how to use one if i had the opportunity..
    You "detest guns"?

    What does that word mean to you?

    Normally that word usuage is caused by some unconscious "fear".

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Quote Originally Posted by J-squared View Post
    I think that it's not possible to ALWAYS have a firearm handy for defensive purposes. However, I believe firearms are yet another tool for one's overall protection and defense.
    Plus it is real fun to "blow the sheeet out of stuff".

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan View Post
    I'd disagree because his statement is too absolute. Not everyone should have a firearm- if you couldn't pull the trigger, it is a liability instead of an asset. That's an issue of individual morality, which I think he's overlooked.Dan C
    A nice answer.
    Thank you.
    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    In a Filipino arts discussion, someone told me they believe that if you aren't an advocate of firearms for defensive purposes, you have no business studying, practicing or promoting Filipino Martial Arts.

    The reasons stated were that the FMAs are for combat and survival.

    Kenpo isn't exactly an art for playing nice either.

    What do you think of the statement?
    What?

    Just because you don't advocate using a firearm for defense doesn't mean you couldn't or wouldn't benefit from studying these arts.

    And...just because you don't advocate the use of a firearm for self defense doesn't mean you don't have any common sense and realize that there is a danger of finding yourself in a position where you would have to defend yourself against one!! DOH!

    I've trained a variety of people. Short of being a bully or an extreme socio-path, I teach anyone how to defend just about any kind of attack I can think of.

    Every individual has their own set of values. I was not put on this planet to judge the validity of anothers values. I won't teach anyone that I feel will use their skill to bully or make others afraid. Otherwise, I will teach all my students the same regardless of their reasons for wanting to learn; including defenses against knives, guns, and other weapons because those are very real threats in todays world.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    What?

    Just because you don't advocate using a firearm for defense doesn't mean you couldn't or wouldn't benefit from studying these arts.

    And...just because you don't advocate the use of a firearm for self defense doesn't mean you don't have any common sense and realize that there is a danger of finding yourself in a position where you would have to defend yourself against one!! DOH!
    YES it DOES!!!

    It's called "perceptual filters".

    What's inside the mind stays there, especially if it was installed BEFORE the age of 5.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    YES it DOES!!!

    It's called "perceptual filters".

    What's inside the mind stays there, especially if it was installed BEFORE the age of 5.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    LOL. There are plenty of people living in denial for sure. My point is that I know of folks that don't necessarily advocte using a firearm, but realize that others carry and that it's important to learn how to defend against them.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    LOL. There are plenty of people living in denial for sure. .
    What is really neat is that THEY DON'T know.

    What is even neater is that THEY WILL FIGHT you to the death to prove their point.

    Cool hunnnn?

    Thank you Celtic.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    In a Filipino arts discussion, someone told me they believe that if you aren't an advocate of firearms for defensive purposes, you have no business studying, practicing or promoting Filipino Martial Arts.

    The reasons stated were that the FMAs are for combat and survival.

    Kenpo isn't exactly an art for playing nice either.

    What do you think of the statement?
    While this exact statement might be a little too absolute, I can kinda see where the poster was trying to go (or at least where I think he was trying to go).

    The way I see it, you have people that study martial-arts strictly for the "internal" benefits (discipline, self-control, etc.), or for the fun/comraderie, or just as a hobby. Often, those in this group do not seem to have a mindset that would allow them to use what they've learned in a violent confrontation. Then you have people that study solely for self-defense (i.e. fighting for your life against someone who is determined to do do you harm). Most people fall somewhere in between (I tend to be much closer to the later "type") and I do think it is both possible, and perfectly acceptable to separate what you practice for fun from what you train to stay alive.

    I feel that if self-defense is an issue that you are serious about, you should understand the realities of criminal assault and should make every effort to train in the most efficient and effective methods for dealing with that type of violence. In this day and age, the most effective weapon that can be carried by most individuals on a daily basis is a handgun. I personally believe that if one is really serious about self-defense and legally allowed to do so (had to throw in the disclaimer ), that he/she should obtain and train with a handgun.
    Why? because there are situations that you just will not be able to handle without one. I'm definately not saying that a firearm is a talisman that will ward off evil or that will handle any situation. What it does is give you an option for the times when you are presented with a situation where there is a disparity of force that you cannot overcome w/o a weapon (e.g. attacker is much larger/stronger, armed, or there are multiple attackers), or when the range between you and your attacker would make an empty-hand or contact-weapon response impossible.
    To deny the effectiveness of firearms is absurd. If someone chooses not to carry/own one, that is their choice (maybe a poor choice, but to each his/her own). However, they have to realize that they are limiting their options.
    I feel that at the very least, a familiarity with firearms is necessary since it is fairly likely that a criminal might try to use one against you. Understanding how the various types of weapons function would at least be useful so that you could render the weapon harmless after you've taken it away.

    just my $0.02
    The test: "Will this work so that I can use it instinctively in vital combat against an opponent who is determined to prevent me from doing so, and who is striving to eliminate me by fair means or foul?" ~ Col. Rex Applegate

    Matt K.

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    Default Re: FMA = "Firearm" Martial Arts?

    I would say that if you are truly serious about training for self-defense, study of firearms (and other tools) should be an integral part of your training. Firearms are the single greatest combat equalizer humans have ever had. To say that you are truly serious about defending yourself, then ignoring such a useful tool is a bit blind.

    If you train for other reasons, then you can do anything you want.

    Lamont
    Pekiti Tirsia Kali and Kenpo Karate
    www.blackbirdmartialarts.com

    “He, who will not reason, is a bigot; he, who cannot, is a fool; and he, who dares not, is a slave.”
    ~William Drummond

    "This person is as dangerous as an IED."

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