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Thread: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

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    universalsomething is offline
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    Default Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Up till recently I have been training purely with motion, picking up concepts and principles along the way. It seems I feel kenpo more than know kenpo. I train regularly at home and am told I move the material better than I should be at my level. And so, my question, is it neccesary to know all the vocabulary and physics behind the art to execute effectivly?

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    kit
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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    There are several levels of function. Certainly there is the physical and the emotional; that is to say how you physicaly move which to some degree is improved or hindered by the emotions. But it is the intelect that completes the circle, full understanding of the whys and wherefores.
    So, if you can really move the material now things should pick up even more as you begin to understand the principles.

    Kit

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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Quote Originally Posted by universalsomething View Post
    Up till recently I have been training purely with motion, picking up concepts and principles along the way. It seems I feel kenpo more than know kenpo. I train regularly at home and am told I move the material better than I should be at my level. And so, my question, is it neccesary to know all the vocabulary and physics behind the art to execute effectivly?
    I don't think anyone knows all the vocabulary and physics. We are all effective at various levels. Even the "masters" continue to learn and grow. No one makes a claim to exhaustive knowledge at any level. The more you know and train the principles and techniques the more you will see them in material you "learned" earlier. All of your learning should relate to principles but your understanding of the principles grows with practice and attention. My 2 cents.
    Hands on Healer

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    "The hands of the King are the hands of a healer"

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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    That makes sense. Thanks for the great advice.

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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Quote Originally Posted by universalsomething View Post
    Up till recently I have been training purely with motion, picking up concepts and principles along the way. It seems I feel kenpo more than know kenpo. I train regularly at home and am told I move the material better than I should be at my level. And so, my question, is it neccesary to know all the vocabulary and physics behind the art to execute effectivly?
    Understanding the underlying concepts will cause you to perform even better.

    Well worth the study.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Quote Originally Posted by kit View Post
    There are several levels of function. Certainly there is the physical and the emotional; that is to say how you physicaly move which to some degree is improved or hindered by the emotions. But it is the intelect that completes the circle, full understanding of the whys and wherefores.
    So, if you can really move the material now things should pick up even more as you begin to understand the principles.

    Kit
    I would say "with proper intention".

    There are some neat studies on what intention can do.

    And negative emotions reduce your bodies energies, so the power is much lower.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Greetings.

    If you have competent instruction, and you concentrate on how, you will perform quite nicely.

    Yet there comes a time were you might want to teach, or your teacher cannot teach you as much as you can teach yourself with your teacher's guidance through experimentation and experience...

    Then the "why" becomes important.

    The "why" gives you the insights on what to do to improve your skills and what direction you training should go for YOU;

    training is different from person to person becuase of the directions each person want to take to improve skills.

    Also to teach effectively and competently, you need this knowledge as to help others develop and know what they have to do to get where they want.

    Today, I was working with some students, and while one was performing some forms, I noticed how his movements were weakened by lack of rotation in his waist.

    So I taught him a drill create more mommentum while maintaining control of the body.

    Knowing the vocabulary is necessary to communicate to your students in a prescise and compact way, as to get to the skill building as fast as possible.

    Yet many times it is learned when you mess up and you are taught to concentrate on getting better at applying that principle, technique, concep, etc.

    I guess I've meesed up plenty. By black belt you should've learned them most...

    About the physics... those are the rules we've identified that we live by in this world... so they too apply to combat, and the why...

    Of course you don't have to become a physicist, yet the basic principles of newtonian mechanics and anatomy as it applies to combat should be noted and learned...

    Just part of competent instruction that wants maximal performance.

    Enjoy.

    Juan M. Mercado

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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Quote Originally Posted by profesormental View Post
    Greetings.

    If you have competent instruction, and you concentrate on how, you will perform quite nicely.

    Yet there comes a time were you might want to teach, or your teacher cannot teach you as much as you can teach yourself with your teacher's guidance through experimentation and experience...

    Then the "why" becomes important.

    The "why" gives you the insights on what to do to improve your skills and what direction you training should go for YOU;

    training is different from person to person becuase of the directions each person want to take to improve skills.

    Also to teach effectively and competently, you need this knowledge as to help others develop and know what they have to do to get where they want.

    Today, I was working with some students, and while one was performing some forms, I noticed how his movements were weakened by lack of rotation in his waist.

    So I taught him a drill create more mommentum while maintaining control of the body.

    Knowing the vocabulary is necessary to communicate to your students in a prescise and compact way, as to get to the skill building as fast as possible.

    Yet many times it is learned when you mess up and you are taught to concentrate on getting better at applying that principle, technique, concep, etc.

    I guess I've meesed up plenty. By black belt you should've learned them most...

    About the physics... those are the rules we've identified that we live by in this world... so they too apply to combat, and the why...

    Of course you don't have to become a physicist, yet the basic principles of newtonian mechanics and anatomy as it applies to combat should be noted and learned...

    Just part of competent instruction that wants maximal performance.

    Enjoy.

    Juan M. Mercado
    Thanks for the insightful post. It really bought things into perspective for me, and I have a lot of questions now.

    Blue Belt
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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Quote Originally Posted by profesormental View Post
    Yet there comes a time ... your teacher cannot teach you as much as you can teach yourself with your teacher's guidance through experimentation and experience... Then the "why" becomes important. ...
    Another good post, Mr. Juanma! This is exactly where I'm at right now- not because I'm any great shakes as a martial artist. Truth is, I don't know of a competant AK instructor in the entire state of Columbia! (Note: the state of Washington, which is everything from the Cascade crest West, doesn't count- for much of anything. Ha! They know what I mean *grin*) I work my Kenpo, and work out with other stylists when I can. Without that understanding (and, again, mine isn't that deep) I'd be adrift at sea, and probably would have to wash up on shore somewhere disgusting, like in Peeeyewjeeot Sound!

    (If that don't flush out the Russ, well ...)

    Dan (deasert rules!) C
    There are things that are worth knowing for their own sake, worth finding for the pure joy of discovery.

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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Quote Originally Posted by universalsomething View Post
    Up till recently I have been training purely with motion, picking up concepts and principles along the way. It seems I feel kenpo more than know kenpo. I train regularly at home and am told I move the material better than I should be at my level. And so, my question, is it neccesary to know all the vocabulary and physics behind the art to execute effectivly?

    i know what you mean about feeling more than you know.. but when you learn the principles and concepts.. it becomes more real, and more effective, and easier to visualize.

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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    Understanding the underlying concepts will cause you to perform even better.

    Well worth the study.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    I agree. Good advice

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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Quote Originally Posted by universalsomething View Post
    Up till recently I have been training purely with motion, picking up concepts and principles along the way. It seems I feel kenpo more than know kenpo. I train regularly at home and am told I move the material better than I should be at my level. And so, my question, is it neccesary to know all the vocabulary and physics behind the art to execute effectivly?
    "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh, that's pure Karate, no matter who executes its or whatever style is involed."(SGM Ed Parker)
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Quote Originally Posted by universalsomething View Post
    is it neccesary to know all the vocabulary and physics behind the art to execute effectivly?
    If it is, MOST of us are in BIG trouble.

    No, it's not necessary to know ALL the vocab and physics. Heck, you don't even have to "know" the 'physics' in order to make the material work.

    BUT: It's just like using the English language...
    The greater your vocabulary, the broader range of options you have in order to render the most appropriate response to any question/attack..

    Also: Knowledge of what you've called the "Physics" (could also say the "WHY" or the principles/concepts) behind the application and construction of Kenpo....is only effective if we can flesh it out in how we express Kenpo.
    ME memorizing every single entry in the Encyclopedia of American Kenpo won't matter one OUNCE if it doesn't improve HOW I do my motion/techniques...etc. That knowledge, like any knowledge is power ONLY when it is applied and used.

    Kenpo is constructed very wisely. The early techniques take into account that you are a beginner and are therefore designed to be applicable w/out TOO much experience.
    But the further you go, the more sophisticated even these early techniques become.

    Remember: Enjoy the process, because it's not about any destination...
    the journey IS the thing.

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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    Understanding the underlying concepts will cause you to perform even better.

    Well worth the study.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    Deserves being repeated!

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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    Someone once said you don't need to know the whole mechanics of how a light bulb works, just turn on the switch....viola...LIGHT!

    I am new to Kenpo, but the more I study the principles and concepts the more I am in awe. This also helps me look at other styles with a more critical eye.

    Currently I am trying to figure out the Master Key moves in yellow and orange self defense techniques. Also how to apply 3D hits in each technique with fitting.
    “Live a good, honorable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll be able to enjoy it a second time.”

    ~Dali Lama




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    Default Re: Hands and feet V.S. The Head

    The "why" is very usefull. One of the many things I love about Kenpo is the answers to the "why" questions. An explanation based on the study of motion and anatomy has always set better with me than the "just 'cause we have always done it that way" reply. The more I learn the about what is behind Kenpo the more interesting it becomes.

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