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Thread: techniques you havent been taught

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    Default techniques you havent been taught

    I was curious.. what is everyone's view on doing, or practicing at home.. techniques you havent been taught for your cirriculum (old techniques, or techniques from another system dont count lol).. for instance i can pretty much do my next technique or two i have to learn.. i havent been taught them. but iv bodied enough for it, as well as seen it explained a bunch of times..

    in the technique line, the person attacking me throws the attack, as if i were supposed to know it.. to which id say "i havent been taught that".. personally i dont like the idea, as much as i want to.

    do you think it's particularly "taboo" in the traditional sense to try it, and possibly impress your teacher with how well you can learn, and that you're ready for more.. or get risk getting scolded in some way, even if its a "what was that?" lol or to just wait it out..?

    personally i learn best from the second, or third person point of view more than the first.. its easier to first watch/listen, second feel, then do.. if i have it done to me correctly and incorrectly.. its more than likely ill remember the overall technqiue.

    id like to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions.

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    14 Kempo is offline
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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    Well, at the level I am, I have more material than I can possibly handle. so moving on isn't an issue. All the techniques that I have, were given to me based off a right lunge punch (shich is common in SKK). I have to take all those techniques and investigate what works and doesn't under any given situation. That means having someone come at me right/left handed, right/left jab, right/left hook, right/left cross, right/left uppercut, right/left front kick, right/left side kick, right/left roundhouse, club in hand, knife in hand, etc. (you get the idea). With all that, how could anyone be worried about more material?

    What's that saying, it's not how much you have, but what you can do with it (?).

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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    Quote Originally Posted by 14 Kempo View Post
    Well, at the level I am, I have more material than I can possibly handle. so moving on isn't an issue. All the techniques that I have, were given to me based off a right lunge punch (shich is common in SKK). I have to take all those techniques and investigate what works and doesn't under any given situation. That means having someone come at me right/left handed, right/left jab, right/left hook, right/left cross, right/left uppercut, right/left front kick, right/left side kick, right/left roundhouse, club in hand, knife in hand, etc. (you get the idea). With all that, how could anyone be worried about more material?

    What's that saying, it's not how much you have, but what you can do with it (?).
    Ditto. 59 SD techniques, 4 katas, 10 kicks in the current belt, in additon to three weapons forms and two open hand forms for competition at the end of July. Not to mention being expected to perform anything I've learned up to this point at a moments notice. I'm pretty well booked up on material at this point.
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    If you know it, give it a shot. If you blow it, your instructor might asked who taught it to you and you can say that you learned by watching, or whatever.

    I don't see anything wrong with doing moves you haven't been taught.

    I learned about 7 of my blue belt extensions and all of the green extensions essentially by watching the video.

    Once you understand motion, then it's easy to apply something new.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    Quote Originally Posted by madeku View Post
    I was curious.. what is everyone's view on doing, or practicing at home.. techniques you havent been taught for your cirriculum (old techniques, or techniques from another system dont count lol) .
    Are you refering to techniques in your system that you have NOT yet qualified for?

    Then I am 100% against it.

    If you are refering to stuff outside your system, and you are a black belt, I am all for it.

    For instance last night I pulled forth this old book by Choki Motobu, and went through the entire damn thing, front to back, going over his Master Keys.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    Quote Originally Posted by 14 Kempo View Post
    Well, at the level I am, I have more material than I can possibly handle. so moving on isn't an issue. All the techniques that I have, were given to me based off a right lunge punch (shich is common in SKK). I have to take all those techniques and investigate what works and doesn't under any given situation. That means having someone come at me right/left handed, right/left jab, right/left hook, right/left cross, right/left uppercut, right/left front kick, right/left side kick, right/left roundhouse, club in hand, knife in hand, etc. (you get the idea). With all that, how could anyone be worried about more material?

    What's that saying, it's not how much you have, but what you can do with it (?).
    LOL.

    Well if the above were true, then "curosity" would not exist, and no one would buy porn.

    My point being, "those who are curious will look at 'other' things".

    And, I personally think that one of the best things done by Mr. Parker, and Al Tracy (among other kenpo masters) was to build in "enough" new and difference concepts in Kenpo Karate that the curiosity stays mostly in the system, when it is taught correctly.

    I know that I personally teach much with my Kenpo Karate that most outside of my own schools do not have a clue about.

    And it's all important stuff and also helps keep the curious motivated.

    Doc John

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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    If you know it, give it a shot. If you blow it, your instructor might asked who taught it to you and you can say that you learned by watching, or whatever.

    I don't see anything wrong with doing moves you haven't been taught.

    I learned about 7 of my blue belt extensions and all of the green extensions essentially by watching the video.

    Once you understand motion, then it's easy to apply something new.

    --Amy
    Well,

    We do specialize in Private one-on-one trainings, and NO ONE is allowed to watch another's lessons. If they get caught it's pushup time.

    We also allow NO SPECTATORS to any of our Mastery Group sessions, nor to our Fighting Mastery Class, nor to our Healing Energies classes.

    There is a purpose to that.

    If someone shows us something I expect them to be able to back it up with the Master Keys.

    Doc John

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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    I also am 100% against this. There is a reason that you have not yet been taught this material. As an instructor it is more difficult for me to "re-teach" someone a technique when they have tried to do it themselves that to just teach it to them properly in a supervised setting.

    You can practice it a thousand times but if it is incorrect, it is almost worthless.

    If a student is going to just teach a technique to themselves after watching an upper rank do it a few times then it may be a case of the blind leading the blind.

    From a video is even worse-
    The above is just my opinion.

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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    LOL.

    Well if the above were true, then "curosity" would not exist, and no one would buy porn.

    My point being, "those who are curious will look at 'other' things".

    And, I personally think that one of the best things done by Mr. Parker, and Al Tracy (among other kenpo masters) was to build in "enough" new and difference concepts in Kenpo Karate that the curiosity stays mostly in the system, when it is taught correctly.

    I know that I personally teach much with my Kenpo Karate that most outside of my own schools do not have a clue about.

    And it's all important stuff and also helps keep the curious motivated.

    Doc John
    I see nothing in my previous statement that says, "Don't be curious" ... we are all curious, that's human nature.

    You state in your next post ...

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    NO ONE is allowed to watch another's lessons. If they get caught it's pushup time.
    ... that lessons are closed, are you not then disallowing curiousity yourself? Do you not allow lower ranks to punch in for higher ranks? This statement seems to be more in agreement, not with exactly how I stated my post, but with its concepts.

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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    I really feel you're doing yourself a disservice if you're trying to teach yourself. Without the "critical eye" of an instructor to watch what you're doing and provide correction, you could very well be going backwards. If you're teaching yourself more advanced material and not doing it correctly, it could take you even longer to advance once you do get to that level because the inaccuracies that have been allowed to become part of your muscle memory have to be fixed. I'm against learning from a video without a live instructor to back it up for the same reason.
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    I think if it is material that you have legitimately learned elsewhere and you simply wish to keep it in your practice, by all means, carry on.

    But I would not try to work on techs in your system that you have not received proper instruction. It is too easy to look at it on a superficial level and think you understand it, when in reality there are a lot of little details that make the difference between being able to use the tech for real, or not.

    Often, a tech looks perhaps somewhat like another one that you already know. But when you learn it properly, you realize and understand what is different about it, and what really makes is a separate tech. Trying to mimick from what you see others do is not the best way to grasp these details. And like what was stated earlier, trying to pick this up off video is even worse.

    Wait until you have been properly taught the material before you try to practice it.
    Michael


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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    I'm going to have to go with those who say don't do it until you're taught it. I've had good instruction by several different instructors through blue and into green. Even though I don't do many of the techs as taught by any one instructor, I still feel that I have a good understanding of what is taught, and my changes are informed. Anything higher that I've worked on has, by necessity, been done on my own, and it shows in both performance and understanding. I don't even practice those techs, other than to try to dig out some ideas and what understanding I can get. In fact, I havn't been able to really practice much for so long that I'm pretty happy right now to be redoing the lower belt stuff, with some changes I've worked out from posters here. (This post should give the witch hunters a good blood trail.)

    Dan C
    There are things that are worth knowing for their own sake, worth finding for the pure joy of discovery.

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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe View Post
    From a video is even worse-
    I agreed with you up to this quote.

    I believe, and I'm backed up by many studies done that "video training" is much better than NO training.

    And if you've had the training, and it's video-taped, THEN the training you had can be re-watched and really learned versus just having the training.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    Last edited by John M. La Tourrette; 06-11-2007 at 07:53 PM.

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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    Quote Originally Posted by 14 Kempo View Post
    Well, at the level I am, I have more material than I can possibly handle. so moving on isn't an issue. All the techniques that I have, were given to me based off a right lunge punch (shich is common in SKK). I have to take all those techniques and investigate what works and doesn't under any given situation. That means having someone come at me right/left handed, right/left jab, right/left hook, right/left cross, right/left uppercut, right/left front kick, right/left side kick, right/left roundhouse, club in hand, knife in hand, etc. (you get the idea). With all that, how could anyone be worried about more material?

    What's that saying, it's not how much you have, but what you can do with it (?).
    I'm skipping your last post, but this post does have a thing or two on it that I found very interesting.

    Your post is really about the 5 levels of competency, but you only mention up to level 3, which is "conscious competency".

    This is a difficult stage, where Master Keys of Kenpo Karate are learned consciously at 1/16 speed, and relearned, etc, until you have them memorized AT THAT SLOW SPEED.

    Then they are practiced at 1/4, untily you have them memorized at that SLOW speed.

    Then up to 1/2 speed until you have thm memorized at that SLOW speed.

    Then up to 75% speed, until you have them memorized at that medium speed.

    Then up to 80%...

    ...to 85%...

    ...to 90%...

    ...to 92%...

    To what is your red-line speed, the max you can do WITHOUT adding in stress and tension.

    My point being, that is normally 2,000 to 5,000 repetitions.

    After that, the Master Keys are automatic (a subconscious process), and the conscious mind is FREE TO NOTICE OTHER THINGS...

    ...and it does get bored.

    Your post was about the conscious mind being involved in 'this and that', which is a different thing entirely and a much lower level of competency.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    yea my instructor showed me a basic escrima set the first week i started because i was asking about, so he showed me, so i ordered some escrima sticks but was hoping someone would download the basic escrima stick form so i can practice it, i cant remember the last moves, so i say go for it, if its wrong your instructor will help you fix it.
    It does not matter where the Martial art comes from. if it can help you defend yourself it is worth learning( Bruce Lee ) May the Force Be With You

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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    I guess it also depends on your level of proficiency.

    I have learned a lot of moves by video, but I wouldn't practice it over and over until I'd run it by someone more competent in the material.

    If you're a lower belt, then I would say no. Sometimes someone in my class will teach a move to someone else in the class and when I see that, I always doublecheck what has been taught.

    If, however, the person is a brown belt and they have seen something on a video and want to try it out, then by all means.

    by then, they should be able to apply what they know and make the technique work. With an upper belt, if often just needs refinement.

    But again, it depends on the proficiency of the practitioner.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
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    Default Re: techniques you havent been taught

    I am a white belt, so from a "lessor" level person's input, I learn and practice only what my instructor teaches me. Although curious about the other techniques, I only work on what my instructor has taught me.

    Although I have the opportunity to read about the various techniques and watch videos of them to "get ahead", I personally feel that when my instructor wants me to learn another technique or feels I am ready to be taught a particular technique he will let me know.

    While limited, I feel that I have enough work to do perfecting what I am taught by my instructor than to try and work ahead of myself.

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