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Thread: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

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    Default The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Hi group,
    I’ve been reading thousands of comment on this site for the past 3 months, and I’m seeking YOUR opinions about what is ‘secret’ and what a secret really is or is not.

    Here’s a whole slew of definitions.

    Can you take these definitions and tell me what a secret is?

    Thank you, Dr. John M. La Tourrette

    “There is no "secret Kenpo." Mr. Parker always said, ‘There are no secrets. Only information you don't know.’ I hate when someone talks about "secrets." Doc Chapel”

    From Webster’s New World Dictionary:

    To conceal, to keep from the knowledge of others, keeping one’s affairs to oneself, hidden and in a secret drawer, covert implies a concealing as by disguising or veiling, clandestine suggests that what is being kept secret is of an illicit, immoral, or proscribed nature, an attempt to elude notice and often connotes deceit (the stealthy advance of the panther)…

    …other meanings, hidden; concealed. Esoteric. Beyond human understanding, or studies, such as magic, alchemy, astrology, etc. To hide or become hidden from view; specifically in astronomy, to hide by occultation (the disappearance of one heavenly body behind another).

    This could be a real interesting thread, especially if you do HAVE SECRETS.

    But then again, if you DO have secrets, then you’ll probably want to keep them secret, right?

    For example Kanawa Goro, a sword adept of the end of the Edo period, was renowned for his favorite technique of a diagonal strike to the temple.

    What is little known was the fact that he would covertly pick up a handful of dirt, which he threw in his opponent’s face, THEN he would strike the opponent with his favorite technique.

    Notice that a "secret" doesn't have to be much.

    If curious about discovering them go to "The Art of War", the "Book of Five Rings", and "The Zen Way to the Martial Arts".

    Or just participate in this thread;-)

    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    Hi group,
    I’ve been reading thousands of comment on this site for the past 3 months, and I’m seeking YOUR opinions about what is ‘secret’ and what a secret really is or is not.

    Here’s a whole slew of definitions.

    Can you take these definitions and tell me what a secret is?

    Thank you, Dr. John M. La Tourrette

    “There is no "secret Kenpo." Mr. Parker always said, ‘There are no secrets. Only information you don't know.’ I hate when someone talks about "secrets." Doc Chapel”

    From Webster’s New World Dictionary:

    To conceal, to keep from the knowledge of others, keeping one’s affairs to oneself, hidden and in a secret drawer, covert implies a concealing as by disguising or veiling, clandestine suggests that what is being kept secret is of an illicit, immoral, or proscribed nature, an attempt to elude notice and often connotes deceit (the stealthy advance of the panther)…

    …other meanings, hidden; concealed. Esoteric. Beyond human understanding, or studies, such as magic, alchemy, astrology, etc. To hide or become hidden from view; specifically in astronomy, to hide by occultation (the disappearance of one heavenly body behind another).

    This could be a real interesting thread, especially if you do HAVE SECRETS.

    But then again, if you DO have secrets, then you’ll probably want to keep them secret, right?

    For example Kanawa Goro, a sword adept of the end of the Edo period, was renowned for his favorite technique of a diagonal strike to the temple.

    What is little known was the fact that he would covertly pick up a handful of dirt, which he threw in his opponent’s face, THEN he would strike the opponent with his favorite technique.

    Notice that a "secret" doesn't have to be much.

    If curious about discovering them go to "The Art of War", the "Book of Five Rings", and "The Zen Way to the Martial Arts".

    Or just participate in this thread;-)

    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    Ive got one. The Japanese harstylists that use the fist on the hip tech actually go through extreem streaching and practice sessions to make it work. American generaly don't do the work (think Jean Claude in the Bloodsport training as a kid) ; so, in America the fist on the hip is stupid, in Japan it is effective.
    Sean

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    I am a beginning student in Kenpo, so in a way I discover "secrets" every time I train, that are simple master keys to my instructors. However, one of the most fascinating and deceptively simple secrets that I have learned was not taught to me first hand by my instructor. I learned it in an extremely informative book (Mental Training of a Warrior, written by you know who!), and that is the secret of training your awareness. Playing games like, spot them before they spot you, in a coffee shop, over and over again, untill it becomes habit, may not sound like martial arts training, but I swear it has doubled how fast I can spot an agressive and agitated looking individual. There are plenty of other simple sounding exercises just like that one, that you can find in that book that will triple your awareness. As a beginner every bit of information helps. I know that to most of you these may not seem like very important secrets and may even seem second nature to some of you, but since I started practicing these techniches I've noticed that:

    1.I never have my back facing someone that I dont know.
    2.Every time I walk into a room I search through it completely with my eyes before I proceed any futher.
    3.Wherever I am, whether in line at the grocery store, at work, or at a bar, I always keep any unknown person at a distance just outside my arms reach (level 2 fighting).

    A few years ago I was at a club, happy and drunk and minding my own business, when I was attacked by 5 gangbangers. One of them caught me by suprise with a pint glass to the back of my head, and then they proceeded to kick the crap out of me for five seconds and then ran when the bouncers came in. They got away, and I don't even know what they looked like!!!
    If I had just done ONE of the three things that I stated above, that never would have happened!!!!!!!

    Well thats my secret. I know its simple, but sometimes simple is not so simple.
    Last edited by tylerjade; 05-14-2007 at 11:05 PM.

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by tylerjade View Post
    I am a beginning student in Kenpo, so in a way I discover "secrets" every time I train, that are simple master keys to my instructors. However, one of the most fascinating and deceptively simple secrets that I have learned was not taught to me first hand by my instructor. I learned it in an extremely informative book (Mental Training of a Warrior, written by you know who!), and that is the secret of training your awareness. Playing games like, spot them before they spot you, in a coffee shop, over and over again, untill it becomes habit, may not sound like martial arts training, but I swear it has doubled how fast I can spot an agressive and agitated looking individual. There are plenty of other simple sounding exercises just like that one, that you can find in that book that will triple your awareness. As a beginner every bit of information helps. I know that to most of you these may not seem like very important secrets and may even seem second nature to some of you, but since I started practicing these techniches I've noticed that:

    1.I never have my back facing someone that I dont know.
    2.Every time I walk into a room I search through it completely with my eyes before I proceed any futher.
    3.Wherever I am, whether in line at the grocery store, at work, or at a bar, I always keep any unknown person at a distance just outside my arms reach (level 2 fighting).

    A few years ago I was at a club, happy and drunk and minding my own business, when I was attacked by 5 gangbangers. One of them caught me by suprise with a pint glass to the back of my head, and then they proceeded to kick the crap out of me for five seconds and then ran when the bouncers came in. They got away, and I don't even know what they looked like!!!
    If I had just done ONE of the three things that I stated above, that never would have happened!!!!!!!

    Well thats my secret. I know its simple, but sometimes simple is not so simple.
    Yep.
    The methods of external visual awareness are very important.
    And I also learned them the hard way, by a negative experience.
    Thank you.
    And, "yes" Mental Training of a Warrior is a classic in the field, STILL.
    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    I personally think that one of the greatest secrets of Kenpo is that you learned THE SECRETS your first 6 months, it took a LOT of training and curriculum for you to realize it though.

    Most things thought of as "Secret", I think, are just things that were there all along....but you didn't realize it. It's like when a good illusionist does a trick and seems to you to pull something out of thin air...as though it didn't exist a moment ago, and now it does. Well.....it did exist, just not in your experience, not in your sensory history....not until he showed it to you. That's why Mr. Parker often amazed people who weren't Kenpoists....he could take what they thought they knew of their own art and show them some nugget of goodness that was embedded w/in it that they didn't realize was there before.......
    Voila!!!
    The Magician of Motion...

    Your Brother (whose wife won't let him saw her in half)
    John
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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    The only real secret i know is - what I am about to do. Hopefully I can keep that secret long enough to get it done. I hope one day I can be good enough where it doesn't have to be a secret and I can still do it to you (like Billy Jack!)

    I've never been shown a technique or given a piece of knowledge and told "don't show this to anyone else". Although I have taped some classes and seminars and been told not to share them, but not because the info was "secret".

    Maybe I am still grasshopper, not worthy of secrets!

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Heeeey, Dokka John! Interesting pattern development in the intro.

    I can't help but wonder, John, really wonder...what does it mean to have a secret? I mean, the ones you see when you look inside. More importantly, how do you know? What if you told someone, but didn't remember? Or maybe you didn't even know you told them? Some people are able to tell your secrets, often, without you knowing you even told them. It's like remembering to tell someone thing to forget to remem...nah; that's a silly place. Let's not go there some more, starting now.

    Keeping mine,

    Dokka Dave, wearing a purple Wizards cap.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    Ive got one. The Japanese harstylists that use the fist on the hip tech actually go through extreem streaching and practice sessions to make it work. American generaly don't do the work (think Jean Claude in the Bloodsport training as a kid) ; so, in America the fist on the hip is stupid, in Japan it is effective.
    Sean
    I'm trying to figure out "why a Japanese hair-stylist" would put his fist on his hip?

    Was he gay?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Dear Dr. John:

    I'm not going to claim this secret as mine as it was taught to me by my Sensei Michael Sanders many years ago.

    Mike would encourage timid students to visualize "un-caging the animal" or the beast that resides inside of all of us. He would look them straight in the eye as he verbally and visually challeneged and encouraged a student.

    This "beast" will kill and maim and has no fear of death. Later on one may learn that un-caging the beast comes with a price. The price may well be your freedom if by accident you kill someone.. There is a "rush" that comes with the beast that can be intoxicating. In my later years I have come to believe that this beast may be demonic but that's another story.

    Another effective mind technique that works well particularily with women is to teach the concept of turning fear into anger. Make your attacker fear for his life if he dares to attack you.

    That's my two cents worth on this question. I hope that my comments will further stimulate discussion on this topic.

    Nelson Kari
    Yep,

    Associating into the 100 FOOT TALL BLACK PANTHER ON "SPEED" will cause a massive attitudinal shift.

    So will the reframe of "changing fear into anger".

    Especially for women, the "fear of a child getting hurt".

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    I personally think that one of the greatest secrets of Kenpo is that you learned THE SECRETS your first 6 months, it took a LOT of training and curriculum for you to realize it though.
    So what are some of those secrets?

    For example if a person is NOT aware of Zero Perception, than ANY attack that "uses" Zero Perception correctly will work against him.

    What are some of the specifics?

    How are those specifics used?

    Why is it important for us as Kenpo Karate life long students, to know them, understand them and to "use" them?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    Heeeey, Dokka John! Interesting pattern development in the intro.
    I can't help but wonder, John, really wonder...what does it mean to have a secret? I mean, the ones you see when you look inside. More importantly, how do you know? What if you told someone, but didn't remember? Or maybe you didn't even know you told them? Some people are able to tell your secrets, often, without you knowing you even told them. It's like remembering to tell someone thing to forget to remem...nah; that's a silly place. Let's not go there some more, starting now..
    Nice.

    And as you 'notice those secrets', and notice how 'real they are', how do you 'feel good'...now...knowing you know secrets they 'don't' know...and can never fine out nor understand...ever.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    ps. Not a clue to what you are talking about.

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Dear Dr. John:

    I'm not going to claim this secret as mine as it was taught to me by my Sensei Michael Sanders many years ago.

    Mike would encourage timid students to visualize "un-caging the animal" or the beast that resides inside of all of us. He would look them straight in the eye as he verbally and visually challeneged and encouraged a student.

    This "beast" will kill and maim and has no fear of death. Later on one may learn that un-caging the beast comes with a price. The price may well be your freedom if by accident you kill someone.. There is a "rush" that comes with the beast that can be intoxicating. In my later years I have come to believe that this beast may be demonic but that's another story.

    Another effective mind technique that works well particularily with women is to teach the concept of turning fear into anger. Make your attacker fear for his life if he dares to attack you.

    That's my two cents worth on this question. I hope that my comments will further stimulate discussion on this topic.

    Nelson Kari
    I think this is pretty cool, not so much the killing part but still, learning to unleash the beast/turn fear to anger..very cool!.

    Paul Vunak, in one of my favorite videos deals with "killer instinct" it is really a attribute that is needed for the one who is of humble spirit, who cant imagine hurting someone, even to safe themselves from being hurt.
    He talks about relaxing and gathering calmess from the appropriate range and then when to turn it on from trapping range.

    Once again very cool, "All goals apart from the means ,is nothing more than illusion".

    And trainning to fight without the ability to carry out the needed violence for the given circumstance would also perhaps be an illusion as well.
    "Mighty power like steel is our Kata and heritage which require a long time of practice and training. It is what men are seeking, just only for their self-respect and self-defense."
    MASTER MEITOKU YAGI

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    I've never been shown a technique or given a piece of knowledge and told "don't show this to anyone else"!
    Really?

    I do it at every seminar I give.


    Many give what won't work.

    I give what will work, and many that are in competition with my Intensives are very curious to knowing what I do that does work so well, and that they'll never get.

    One interprising soul took a $597 Video set of mine (Secrets of Psychic Attack and Psychic Self-Defense) and sold 2,500 illegally duped copies of it on ebay before we noticed.

    Why keep secrets?

    Give me 20 examples of why secrets should be kept.

    I've one client, very wealthly, that is married (25 years) and has two mistresses, one 27 and the other 24.

    Why keep secrets?

    Hell if I know.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    I'm trying to figure out "why a Japanese hair-stylist" would put his fist on his hip?

    Was he gay?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    I think he meant "hard stylist", which begs the question, why was he ...,

    no we won't go there.

    Dan (*closes ears in oven door*) C
    There are things that are worth knowing for their own sake, worth finding for the pure joy of discovery.

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan View Post
    I think he meant "hard stylist", which begs the question, why was he ...,

    no we won't go there.

    Dan (*closes ears in oven door*) C
    Yep.

    We better watch it cause "they" are watching us.

    No XXX here please.

    Doc John

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    To conceal, to keep from the knowledge of others,
    Then there is the secret of the front kick.

    Just looking at the 5 impact points on that kick, when they are used, how they are used, and what's important about using them "can" be "secrets".

    1. Nail kick
    2. dorsum kick
    3. ball kick
    4. slicking edge kick
    5. heel kick

    What do you think the secrets might be?

    First, to understand what I'm talking about you MUST know the correct definition of the terms being used, starting with "weapon's impact point".

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    I'm trying to figure out "why a Japanese hair-stylist" would put his fist on his hip?

    Was he gay?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    What, R U Fozzy Bear all of a sudden? LOL
    Sean

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    What, R U Fozzy Bear all of a sudden? LOL
    Sean
    That must be "you are what you were when" joke...

    ...or age related?

    ...maybe youth related?

    ...a gender related joke?

    Anyway, I didn't get it.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    Ive got one. The Japanese harstylists that use the fist on the hip tech actually go through extreem streaching and practice sessions to make it work. American generaly don't do the work (think Jean Claude in the Bloodsport training as a kid) ; so, in America the fist on the hip is stupid, in Japan it is effective.
    Sean
    Well,

    I'm sure you meant "hard stylist", and therefor was refering to something like Shotokan.

    Now I did Shotokan (nidan) and it never worked when fighting someone that knew what Shotokan did.

    Now BEFORE people were aware of what Shotokan did, it ALWAYS worked.

    In fact, in the 50's to know Shotokan karate was to be invincible.

    But DURING the 60's Shotokan no longer worked.

    And they made their tournaments "closed" so only other Shotokan ites could participate in them.

    So, what does this post have to do about "secrets"?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: The REAL fighting Secrets? What are yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    For example if a person is NOT aware of Zero Perception, than ANY attack that "uses" Zero Perception correctly will work against him.

    What are some of the specifics?
    How are those specifics used
    Why is it important for us as Kenpo Karate life long students, to know them, understand them and to "use" them?
    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    ...
    Might have to bring me up to speed on what "zero perception" is and how it works sir. Looked through a lot of my Kenpo matial and couldn't find it.
    Sounds to me like abiding in a state of 'non-anticipation' where you don't predict. Seems that'd help you react spontaneously.

    Thanks

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