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Thread: Defining "Spirit"

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    Default Defining "Spirit"

    There have been discussions on "Chi" or "Ki" and related topics on how to bring mind, body, and spirit in sync in order to achieve maximum effectiveness. I'd like to focus on the most intangible and broad concept of the three; the "spirit."

    I think "mind" and "body" pretty much speak for themselves, but how do YOU define the "spirit" and how do YOU go about developing it to work in tandem with the "mind" and "body?"
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Defining "Spirit"

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    There have been discussions on "Chi" or "Ki" and related topics on how to bring mind, body, and spirit in sync in order to achieve maximum effectiveness. I'd like to focus on the most intangible and broad concept of the three; the "spirit."

    I think "mind" and "body" pretty much speak for themselves, but how do YOU define the "spirit" and how do YOU go about developing it to work in tandem with the "mind" and "body?"
    Nice easy question, thanks

    I think you can look at this a number of different ways. When I think of mind/body/spirit in the context of fighting, I think of fighting spirit which to me represents your will or intent.

    In more general terms I would think of spirit in a more esoteric sense in which case it would be my vital essense, what defines me, the energy in my body.

    Training the sprit, now that's a lot more difficult to answer. I think developing your martial spirit is more easily done than developing your spirit in the other sense. I need to think more about this one.

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    Default Re: Defining "Spirit"

    Spirit, in a nutshell, is how you view yourself and others, and how you interact with them. Being a decent person, surrounding yourself with decent people and generally being a positive force in life, as opposed to a negative one are all parts of spirit. When you have developed a true martial spirit, you've learned how to kick butt with a high level of efficiency, you've mentally trained yourself to a high level of discipline to maintain self control under extreme conditions, so why not use what you've learned to help, or train others? Spirit is "the glass is half full" mentality.

    Yes, it is possible to develop a negative spirit, also.
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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    Default Re: Defining "Spirit"

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    There have been discussions on "Chi" or "Ki" and related topics on how to bring mind, body, and spirit in sync in order to achieve maximum effectiveness. I'd like to focus on the most intangible and broad concept of the three; the "spirit."
    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post

    I think "mind" and "body" pretty much speak for themselves, but how do YOU define the "spirit" and how do YOU go about developing it to work in tandem with the "mind" and "body?"


    Well, this might be too far down the rabbit hole, but…

    The word “mind” usually refers to the 3 minds, the conscious mind, the unconscious mind and the super conscious mind.

    The body is self-explanatory, but most do NOT know that it also encompasses the 9 primary energy fields, as a part of the living body.

    And the spirit is the ever remaining part of us that comes and goes, no matter what happens to the body.

    Usually the spirit comes down into the body with certain tasks to perform and to learn and evolve from. It's called "being born".

    What most are referring to when they mention “spirit” is really an “attitude”, an “emotion” which has nothing to do with "spirit".

    And there are spiritual centers in the body that connect the spiritual with the mental and the physical.

    It is called the endocrine system, and the Chakra system.

    So when you talk about “how to bring mind, body, and spirit in sync in order to achieve maximum effectiveness”, you are going way down my rabbit hole.

    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette


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    Default Re: Defining "Spirit"

    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca View Post
    Spirit, in a nutshell, is how you view yourself and others, and how you interact with them. Being a decent person, surrounding yourself with decent people and generally being a positive force in life, as opposed to a negative one are all parts of spirit. When you have developed a true martial spirit, you've learned how to kick butt with a high level of efficiency, you've mentally trained yourself to a high level of discipline to maintain self control under extreme conditions, so why not use what you've learned to help, or train others? Spirit is "the glass is half full" mentality.
    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca View Post

    Yes, it is possible to develop a negative spirit, also.


    Really?

    I respectfully disagree 100%.

    (Please note that a disagreement does NOT mean anger, argument, evil, stupid or rude! It means that we come from DIFFERENT data banks of information and we are sharing what we know.)

    I’ll go over “why I disagree in a minute”.

    According to many wise people your first sentence is about “perspective” NOT spirit. Perspective is a way of thinking, a mental trait.

    How you relate to others is considered communication skills, adopting criteria and having agreeable Radiant Circuits. Those are mental skills (from the Mind) and physical skills (from the body).

    Being decent, whichever “decent” you choose, is a mental attitude, from the mind, and normally from the subconscious mind of how you were raised BEFORE the age of 5 years old.

    A “martial spirit” (which is not the context originally brought up, which was the differences between body, mind and spirit) depending on your background (environment and mental conditionings) can be very different and still a valid “martial spirit”.

    Some people’s martial spirit (from your usage) believes it is okay to shoot the enemy in the head from ambush. Some people’s martial spirit is to smack anyone that look at their wife’s boobies. Other people’s martial spirit is five again one. Others want to fight the strong when they bully the weak.

    They are all learned responses. Some people think of only winning. Others think of what is fair. Others don’t care, and can’t be bothered.

    Kicking butt is an attitude (subconscious emotion) combined with a physical skill (body). Neither are spiritual or from the spirit.

    Spirit is NOT the glass ½ full mentalities. That is positive thinking. That is a proactive mind field.

    I do admit that a proactive view of “getter ‘er done” is much more effective for a goal orientated person than the reverse is. “How it can be done” is vitally more necessary than “reason why it can’t be done”.

    Those are meta-programs (there are 52 of them) which are aspects of the mind.

    Any thinking is of the minds, the conscious mind, the subconscious minds and the super conscious mind.

    Now if you are asking about the “spirit” having aspects of the mind, that is a different thread and probably not for here.

    Nice thread.

    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette



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    Default Re: Defining "Spirit"

    An easy way for me to understand mind, body, and spirit -

    I am a spirit, I have a soul, and I live in a body.

    Spirit is who we are and what we will always be - it is the essence of our being.

    Our soul is our mind, will, and emotions, the unseen faculties that are utlilized by our spirits.

    Our bodies are the vehicle by which we interact with the world around us.

    Training the body is easily understood as is the soul but the spirit is a little more esoteric as it is developed when we train the soul and body and thru religious (spiritual) expression, growth, and experience.

    _Don Flatt

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    Default Re: Defining "Spirit"

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    There have been discussions on "Chi" or "Ki" and related topics on how to bring mind, body, and spirit in sync in order to achieve maximum effectiveness. I'd like to focus on the most intangible and broad concept of the three; the "spirit."

    I think "mind" and "body" pretty much speak for themselves, but how do YOU define the "spirit" and how do YOU go about developing it to work in tandem with the "mind" and "body?"
    Intersting question Mr crippler lol,

    I think the doors have swung wide open for the many possible awnsers on this one, due to the fact that so many folks from different camps are going to view (spirit) so differently.

    A quick thought on (chi) the way i see it "chi" is energy,not an internal majic that will some how when cultivated enable us to leap from the limbs of trees lol, would be fun though

    The way "chi" was taught to me was by a kung fu san soo man and their practice of "sticky hands", a simple exercise of standing across from a partner, placing your forearm against theirs and then firmly but lightly pushing back and forth, after a few seconds we feel a rythm a natural flow in this pattern, the giving and taken, the bouncing, this in my opinion is "chi" "energy".

    It plays out even further when from that practice one partner introduces say the other hand in downward strike and then taking the "chi" energy" momentum and redirecting it in another direction, this is from what i understand the martial application of combat "chi" a flowing and constant reading/body feel of an attack for the purpose of redirection and of course utilizing that momentum in our own strikes as well.

    The spirit/soul of a man is from what i have gathered the imaterial part of man, the very essence of what makes up the difference between being alive or being dead...the spark !

    It could be painted like a lamp thats unplugged from the wall, once it is plugged in it recieves its spirit, its what makes a lamp a lamp.

    it has often been refered to as the heart and where the conscience resides as well , in the Greek the word spirit carries over from the hebrew word soul, which means breath/wind.

    The mind is the seat/realm of though/will.

    So how does it tie into the mind/body/spirit working together in a martial sense ? In my opinion on the level of our own moral codes.
    If a man or woman can not see themselves poking out anothers eye or even further breaking their knee and still yet even further taking anothers life, their spirit/conscience/heart will not morally allow it, thus their is a unbalance in their mind in practicing/pondering this options, their "chi" is out of balance.

    To sum it up , in my opinion the working of these three realms to their unrestricted flow, is by meditating(honestly taken a look within) at ones self and seeing who they are and what they are willing to do in a combat situation and coming to peace with it before themselves and their GOD,
    Having no obstructions between what their "mind" and their"spirit" is going to do allowing freedom from thought in fight, to focus only on the present moment at hand, all questions have been awsnered, all demons have been put to bed, there is balance and flow.


    My two cents
    "Mighty power like steel is our Kata and heritage which require a long time of practice and training. It is what men are seeking, just only for their self-respect and self-defense."
    MASTER MEITOKU YAGI

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    Default Re: Defining "Spirit"

    Since the greek and hebrew definitions were brought up a few posts ago I will take a moment to share the Biblical takes on Mind, Body, Spirit. I have over 9 years of experience as a minister and biblical degree.

    The hebrew people looked at the nature of man being that of kidney, soul (spirit), & strength (body). The greek view was spirit, soul, & body.

    The hebrew word that our Bible translates as heart is literally kidney - which is where the hebrews believed to be the seat of man's emotions, desire, & will.

    The Old Testament translates the same word to spirit or soul. The literal meaning is breath - significant of the unseen part of man that came from God. In the creation story God breathed into Adam and he became a living being.

    The greek word for spirit is pneuma - root for pnuematic. The same word is used to describe God as spirit, man's spirit, evil spirits, and the Holy spirit. This word directly correlates to the hebrew word for spirit or soul.

    The greek word for soul is psyche. This word is still used today and means mind, will, and emotions.

    I'm not certain of the oriental concepts of mind, spirit, & body. What I know is that the concept of chi is energy that all things posses even inanimate objects. It does not correlate to the western concepts of spirit the only similarity is that the western concept connects spirit to breath and the eastern belief is that breath contains chi.

    _Don Flatt

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    Default Re: Defining "Spirit"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kosho Gakkusei View Post
    I'm not certain of the oriental concepts of mind, spirit, & body. What I know is that the concept of chi is energy that all things posses even inanimate objects. It does not correlate to the western concepts of spirit the only similarity is that the western concept connects spirit to breath and the eastern belief is that breath contains chi._Don Flatt
    I really suggest people study Donna Eden's book "Energy Medicine".

    That will clear up most people's confusion about the various vital forces, regardless if one is in Korea, China, Hawaii or the USA.

    Though Celtic's original question was about "spirit" and I'm sure he was NOT talking 151 Barcarde.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Defining "Spirit"

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    There have been discussions on "Chi" or "Ki" and related topics on how to bring mind, body, and spirit in sync in order to achieve maximum effectiveness. I'd like to focus on the most intangible and broad concept of the three; the "spirit."

    I think "mind" and "body" pretty much speak for themselves, but how do YOU define the "spirit" and how do YOU go about developing it to work in tandem with the "mind" and "body?"
    Well we've gone over the normal "spirit" definitions, but THOSE DEFINITIONS are NOT the ones that are usually refered to in the Oriental Martial arts, nor is it the one that Celtic refered to.

    The normal 3 essential things in Budo are technique (wasa), activity (ki), and mind/spirit (shin).

    So,

    Anyone want to talk about the REAL martial approach of those three?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Defining "Spirit"

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Dear Crippler:

    In some circumstances spirit=heart.

    You want to see heart and pure fighting spirit?
    Watch the "thrilla in Manila" again and admire the fighting spirit and heart of two of the greatest fighters of all time.

    There are other definitions of spirit that rise to the esoteric and relgious realm. I prefer the knock down drag out category. I leave the estotric realm to the monks and grandmasters among us.

    Nelson
    Right on Nelson,

    But it was fun giving the "other" definitions was it not?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Defining "Spirit"

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    Well we've gone over the normal "spirit" definitions, but THOSE DEFINITIONS are NOT the ones that are usually refered to in the Oriental Martial arts, nor is it the one that Celtic refered to.

    The normal 3 essential things in Budo are technique (wasa), activity (ki), and mind/spirit (shin).

    So,

    Anyone want to talk about the REAL martial approach of those three?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    Maybe you don't know the answer but the Japanese for truth is also shin, is that a different word than shin meaning mind/spirit?

    What about focus (Kime)?

    _Don Flatt

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    Default Re: Defining "Spirit"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kosho Gakkusei View Post
    Maybe you don't know the answer but the Japanese for truth is also shin, is that a different word than shin meaning mind/spirit?
    What about focus (Kime)?

    In the original Japanese and in Zen "truth" is a different meaning totally than mind/spirt, especially in the context that Celtic was referring to.

    I'm NOT talking about me but about Celtic's question.

    What about focus?

    Isn't that a different topic?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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