Devil Sticks

[NickName99]

Has anyone experimented with devil sticks?
What kinda of lessons can you teach with them?
Are they useful training aid?
What about poi training?
Tournament aspects?

James

[SifuDangeRuss]

Devilsticks are a very zen intrument, in so far as....you have to be relaxed and focused in order to be able to do much with them. The instrument is essentially in a perpetual fall, that you endeavor to exude some level of control to delay it's eventual fall. Aside from that it does teach rhythm, coordination, lateral biasing (Strong side/weak side), timing and control. In my humble opinion it is a vry underused, under appreciated training implement.

[NickName99]

I really think the kids will love em, I use to dabble with the sticks back in the day. I was thinking about bringing them outta retirement.

[RamsHead]

I would have kids use them with stances as most people use them with hips squared and that could lead to bad habits, but I think its a great idea! Other items I have learned things from are the yoyo ( lines of force and motor control) the whip ( power transfer, lines of force and "snapping" force) indo board ( rooting stances, core strength development, strengthens the ankles and knees and blalance,balance and more balance). Keep on thinking outside the box!

[NickName99]

Good stuff Ramshead!!!!!!

I wish I was good at the yo-yo!

[Blindside]

I'm pretty hard pressed to find a directly applicable use of the "devil sticks." Can you benefit from from them? Sure, but wouldn't your time be better spent on a drill a bit more applicable? You know, like working your basics again? I'd be more than a bit annoyed to come to a kenpo class and find my kid playing with throwing sticks up in the air when he was supposed to be learning a martial art. I'd rather see a game of dodgeball, that has much more applied value.

What would you do with them at a tournament? Cause the judges to laugh?

[NickName99]

Ouch Dude!

Granted I don't know much about the martial aspect, but I can see some connection to dual arnis sticks, fire poi, disarming, passing, distraction etc.

Heck even century martial arts supply sell them for tournaments, thus these questions.
http://www.centuryfitness.com/webapp...Id=13501&top=y

[Blindside]

Ouch Dude!

Granted I don't know much about the martial aspect, but I can see some connection to dual arnis sticks, fire poi, disarming, passing, distraction etc.

Heck even century martial arts supply sell them for tournaments, thus these questions.
http://www.centuryfitness.com/webapp...Id=13501&top=y

Heh, XMA devil sticks, I think that about says it all.

If I want to train dual arnis sticks, disarming, passing, distraction, I think my time would be far better spent actually doing those drills rather than attempting to pull benefits out of an unrelated art. It is sort of like saying "your staff sucks, go learn lacrosse." Wouldn't your time be better spent on sport specific methodologies? I'm not against cross-training, but the relationship to the devil sticks to other combative movement is pretty weak.

Lamont

[NickName99]

Your right, for adults or older kids, time would be better spent on flow drills and what ever else with real arnis sticks.
For the young crowd (4-7) why not start it off fun.
besides devil sticks are 100% legal, you can take them to school, airport, down the street, to grandma's house and no one would ever think twice.

anyways, they are as old as the martial arts, as hawaiian as kenpo, fun.
kids can learn focus, timing, confidence, stick handling. with some creativity you can also use them in self defence. Just as much as a yo-yo/chopsticks/playing cards etc.
You can teach just about every arnis drill with them and the kids would more than likely train with them more so than arnis. I'm not trying to replace arnis, but I really don't see anything wrong with mixing things up a bit.

If you don't like them don't use them.

[SifuDangeRuss]

Heh, XMA devil sticks, I think that about says it all.

If I want to train dual arnis sticks, disarming, passing, distraction, I think my time would be far better spent actually doing those drills rather than attempting to pull benefits out of an unrelated art. It is sort of like saying "your staff sucks, go learn lacrosse." Wouldn't your time be better spent on sport specific methodologies? I'm not against cross-training, but the relationship to the devil sticks to other combative movement is pretty weak.

Lamont

Because it teaches yet another way in which we can witness, test, understand and observe the Universal patterns of motion. The greater your undertstanding and awareness of this principal, the closer you are to understanding how virtually any weapon (or by extension any emptyhand) technique should flow. Keep an open mind, Grasshopper. Sometimes stepping just a bit outside of the conventional box, may lead to a better or at least different understanding of one or more principals. Think how helpful analogies are in teaching obscure concepts. This is but another way of viewing and understanding the same physical principals which governs each and every movement we do.

[Celtic_Crippler]

At first I hadn't the slightest clue as to what "devil sticks" were, then I saw the link and checked them out (thanks NN99)

I've never actually seen these used in a martial arts sense. The times I've been exposed to them were during Renaissance Festivals in the same vein as jugglers, etc.

I suppose some benefit could be derived from training with them in the realm of hand-eye coordination, developing some ambidexterity, and perhaps training some mental focus...as with juggling I suppose, but I think sticking with more traditional methods would render better results in regards to martial arts training.

That being said, I've never actually juggled or played around with "devil sticks" so I don't really have a real basis of comparison, I'm just making a general observation. I do know that schools that teach young children use many methods to develop physical skills and attributes that more mature people would not consider useful in their training, but the children do benefit from them. So I would not dismiss the idea all together.

[RamsHead]

If you are looking for benefit in combat from devil sticks, they teach sensitvity, reaction time and fine motor control. Worked in with stances they could create a very ripe enviroment for installation of proper response, translate directly into knife work and relax parents a little by thinking 'lil Jimmy is learning a game. After all the hacky sack started life as a tool to teach low line kicking. Insperation can be found in anything and should not be discounted if it can introduce new dementions to basics and not considered a short cut.

[NickName99]

After all the hacky sack started life as a tool to teach low line kicking.

Wow I like that, I'm going to have to try that out.

Lil Jimmy's parents are quite the concern. Well said!

[Brother John]

maybe they'd be useful for helping children develop some further coordination (kind of like juggling) but exercise is pretty action/skill specific...I don't see a ton of 'martial' relevance.
I wouldn't see spending 'class' time on it.

Your Brother
John

[Carol]

Your right, for adults or older kids, time would be better spent on flow drills and what ever else with real arnis sticks.
For the young crowd (4-7) why not start it off fun.
besides devil sticks are 100% legal, you can take them to school, airport, down the street, to grandma's house and no one would ever think twice.

I'm not so sure they are age appropriate for a 4-7 year old. Many kids that age are still struggling with how to hold a pencil and use it properly, let alone take on the more advanced tactics of coordination. It seems to me like that would frustrate the little child more than it would benefit.

Have you implemented this in your class Nickname? What has the reaction been?

[NickName99]

No we haven't. We had to move to a new location, now we can't use weapons there. (large windows and were renting). So we dropped the idea of devil sticks. We have to wait for better weather so we can start training outside with sticks(kali) and knives.

[Carol]

No we haven't. We had to move to a new location, now we can't use weapons there. (large windows and were renting). So we dropped the idea of devil sticks. We have to wait for better weather so we can start training outside with sticks(kali) and knives.

Something you may want to look at are the plastic escrima sticks that are available at Century. They are hollow plastic tubes with rubber padding around them. They have enough rigidity so they hold up to sparring, sinawalis, or other stick-smacking drills, but they are soft and light enough where normal usage wouldn't result in injury to anyone or damage to anything. They also have a little bit of springyness to them, much like rattan does. They're around $6.00 each IIRC.

[RamsHead]

If you pick up some nylon netting (the kind they have at indoor golf joints)
you can hang it from the ceiling and weight it at the bottom to protect the glass while not impeeding vision. Just an idea.

[Blindside]

Something you may want to look at are the plastic escrima sticks that are available at Century. They are hollow plastic tubes with rubber padding around them. They have enough rigidity so they hold up to sparring, sinawalis, or other stick-smacking drills, but they are soft and light enough where normal usage wouldn't result in injury to anyone or damage to anything. They also have a little bit of springyness to them, much like rattan does. They're around $6.00 each IIRC.

They don't hold up to our sparring sessions, but if you don't break them over someone, they do leave a good welt.

[sifuroy]

The Devil sticks can Be fabulous if done corectly and with showmanship. The very best I have ever seen was Damien Romero. He is the one you thought was so great with the Nun Chucks. He is good with any kind of stick.

I am Most Respectfully,
SifuRoy