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Thread: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

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    Default has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Hi group,

    Something happened to me back in 1970 and Iíve wondered how many times it has happened to anyone here?

    Itís about life and death situations and the stoppage of time during that life and death situation while you figured out, in that non-local dimension, how to survive.

    The first time I do remember distorting time (and doing active decision making while in that time distorted state) I was in a car accident (1970), and right in the middle of the first roll of the vehicle, time stopped for me...

    ...and I figured out how to save my life, and then time restarted, just like there was a light switch in my brain that could turn time on and turn time off.

    I lived through that bad accident without a scratch because I followed the information I was given while I was in that time stoppage state.

    Then time stoppage happened to me again in 1972, but with an accident at the plywood plant where I worked. I was in a situation where my right leg was going to be ripped off my body because it was caught in a press for plywood...

    ...and time stopped again. Again I figured out what steps to take to avoid that injury.

    And time started again, and I escaped the trap without injury because I followed the steps I received while in that state.

    I figured God (higher intelligence) must be trying to tell me something. (I know it sounds funny coming from me, but Iím actually a bit serious about it, though my definition is different than most people.)

    And I am curious to how something similar has happened to people on this list.

    Have you ever had that happen to you when fighting?

    When sparring?

    When in a life and death situation?

    Can you control it and do it at will?

    Do you want the skill and training to control time at will?

    I am really interested in those stories of yours and what you learned from what happened to you in similar circumstances.

    © Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    I've had it happen on a few occasions. A few confrontations and other high stress situations.

    Now this is my opinion, based on my observations. I believe our mind is able to process information much faster than we are able to consciously comprehend. The illusion of time slowing down, is more how we remember an incident rather than any real change to your perception.

    Usually, the things that we do on a day to day basis takes very little clarity of thought. For example, sometimes when we are involved with something we have done several times, time can seem to "fly by". Your mind is relaxed and we tend to do things on unconscious level hence, our memory of that time makes it appear that time moves faster. While when we are on a task that we dread or are bored (wishing time could move faster), time appears to slow down. Our mind becomes busy, and things appear to move slower.

    Now take a high stress situation, and our memory of the event makes it appear like a super slow motion movie. Where every thought, sound, touch, taste, a visual can appear to be crystal clear. In my opinion, this is nothing more than your mind being completely focused on the task at hand. Even what would normally be an unconscious thoughts and decisions, becomes a part of our memory. And since unconscious thoughts are very fast, our memory of it makes it appear that time slowed down.

    Aw well, I am far from a scientific researcher. I'm sure others can better explain or debunk my whole post. This is only my observations without any research involved on the subject. Now that you bring it up, I may decide to better education myself on this matter.
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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Rex View Post
    I've had it happen on a few occasions. A few confrontations and other high stress situations.

    Now this is my opinion, based on my observations. I believe our mind is able to process information much faster than we are able to consciously comprehend. The illusion of time slowing down, is more how we remember an incident rather than any real change to your perception.

    Usually, the things that we do on a day to day basis takes very little clarity of thought. For example, sometimes when we are involved with something we have done several times, time can seem to "fly by". Your mind is relaxed and we tend to do things on unconscious level hence, our memory of that time makes it appear that time moves faster. While when we are on a task that we dread or are bored (wishing time could move faster), time appears to slow down. Our mind becomes busy, and things appear to move slower.

    Now take a high stress situation, and our memory of the event makes it appear like a super slow motion movie. Where every thought, sound, touch, taste, a visual can appear to be crystal clear. In my opinion, this is nothing more than your mind being completely focused on the task at hand. Even what would normally be an unconscious thoughts and decisions, becomes a part of our memory. And since unconscious thoughts are very fast, our memory of it makes it appear that time slowed down.

    Aw well, I am far from a scientific researcher. I'm sure others can better explain or debunk my whole post. This is only my observations without any research involved on the subject. Now that you bring it up, I may decide to better education myself on this matter.
    Not to nitpick but I believe perception is not fixed.
    sean

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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Every time I'm sparring/fighting. So much blood rushes to my head that time does stop or at least my perception of time and I can see openings that I missed before. Its kinda neat with all the flow of adrenaline and everything that your brain still functions somewhat normally(unlike the effects of other drugs/alcohol) If anything I switch to a survival mode and think sharply and clearly. But I still get tunnel vision, Im afraid that when in a multiple attack situation I'm going home with my butt in a bag.

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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    I've had it happen but it wasn't always a "life or death" situation.

    The earliest I recall was in the second grade. It was summer time and I was at my baby-sitter's house, she drove school busses with my mom....and her daughter and I are the same age; Brandi. We were playing in the upstairs bedroom when we smelled smoke in the house. We ran and told her mom who found that an electrical outlet in another room was spitting sparks and there was smoke coming from behind the outlet cover. We ran out of the house to the barn while Brandi's mom ran into the house to wake up her husband who worked the graveyard shift and was asleep in the basement. He ran upstairs with an extinguisher to try to see if he could put it out. It was an old country farm-house....and they had to run to the neighbor's house....maybe a quarter of a mile away....to phone the the fire department. We watched the house burn. Flame doubles every minute... it was summer so all the windows were open....the flame had PLENTY of fuel. Brandi's mom went to the end of the lane to direct the fire trucks but first told us to STAY PUT in the barn. Brandi realized that her pet rat was still in the house. So she RAN IN after it. I freaked out and didn't know what to do. I waited a minute, she didn't come back. When I made the decision to go in after her....that's when time stopped. I ran in with my shirt over my mouth/nose and found her near her sister's bedroom, on the floor coughing. I helped her back out. Time really didn't seem to move again until the trucks came and her mother found us, with soot all over Brandi's face. When I went in I didn't know where to look for her. It was a big old farm house and it was really filled with smoke. But for some reason I went straight to her.

    One that may have been "life or death" was when I jumped from my bike, didn't know WHY I'd done it...but a moment later a car hit my bike.
    Too bad too....that was a good bike. From the moment I decided to leap and roll in the ditch until I stopped flopping down into the ditch (the Ukemi is good, but not THAT good...besides, I was 14)....time seemed to not move at all.

    I never did have the 'time stop' sensation during my martial arts training or sparing or anything.
    But I have had it several times in altercations.
    In my line of work I have to be able to handle sudden violence without much warning...and to do so with great care toward not harming either the people I'm defending or the people doing the attacking. I'm a correctional officer at an adjudicated-placement for teen-age offenders.

    Once a boy got into our facility w/out 'tripping the sensors' of the psychological screening interview....(meant to keep out boys that should go to a placement more suited for severe emotional instability)
    but about four days into his placement, he "Whigged OUT" (Yeah...technical jargon for having a severe psychotic episode). He broke through a thick wooden door that he Really shouldn't have been able to break (I mean top to bottom, SPLIT the thing!!) ...and he broke a thick wooden mop handle over his knee ...after which he had a sharp stick in either hand and was swinging them wildly at 'my boys' (the youth on in my care)...I stayed between them and tried to deescalate him (talk him down)....but he and reality weren't seeing eye to eye at that point in time. I can't tell you exactly what I did, but I disarmed him of both sticks and took him down. He soon threw me off and headed out a door.... soon to meet with my good friends in BLUE who had some nice interlocking metal bracelets for his hands and feet and took him to another psychological screening that he DIDN'T eak through! (after looking him up in the system later, I found out he got care a place more appropriate to his needs) From the point that I realized that there was Great danger (the sticks) to the point that he headed out the door....time didn't move.

    Once I had to stop three large youth from kicking the teddy bear stuffin out of another youth they had on the floor in a corner during a riot. Each of these boys were bigger than I. That was another time that time stood still.

    There are some others, but these are the times that I recall the best. I travel around the state to other such facilities and conduct their "Hands on" skills training. (I call it the "Gambler" course: Because you got to know when to hold'm, know when to fold'm....know when to walk away....and know when to RUN.) Anyway....in talking to other veterans of my field and to many cops I hear all kinds of stories like these where decisions had to be made YESTERDAY....and the neeeeed was HIGH. Many often say it's accompanied by a sense of clarity and 'automation'....like a seperate...more detatched THEM took over right away.

    Interesting subject.
    What do you make of it Dr. La Tourrette??

    I'd be MORE than a little interested on your take as to how this works and why it works when it does....etc.

    Your Brother (who's all ears)
    John
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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    According to Mr Lee Bachman's "Kenpo Theory"

    "Adrenalin is a hormone that is released from the organ known as the adrenal gland. When it is released it is broken down into two (2) elements; epinephrine and norepinephrine. Epinephrine increases the heart rate, norepinephrine causes stronger contraction of the heart muscle which allows for the movement of more blood. More blood is moving, more oxygen is available to the areas where is most needed. This provides for strength beyond normal human capacity. As the result of a sudden charge, the brain functions faster than normal thus giving the illusion of slower time passage. During this time passage you have the opportunity to engage in the process of mental rehearsal. In mental rehearsal the task is already completed in the mind before the body experiences it."

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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickName99 View Post
    "Adrenalin is a hormone that is released from the organ known as the adrenal gland. When it is released it is broken down into two (2) elements; epinephrine and norepinephrine. Epinephrine increases the heart rate, norepinephrine causes stronger contraction of the heart muscle which allows for the movement of more blood. More blood is moving, more oxygen is available to the areas where is most needed. This provides for strength beyond normal human capacity. As the result of a sudden charge, the brain functions faster than normal thus giving the illusion of slower time passage. During this time passage you have the opportunity to engage in the process of mental rehearsal. In mental rehearsal the task is already completed in the mind before the body experiences it."


    Well,
    I'm going to disagree, especially since the psychological evidence shows that it's the adrenaline dump that causes a person to freak out and to have one point vision and to freeze, NOT to be able to think cognitively.

    So Iím not disagreeing about the hormonal releasing.

    Remember that one of my criteria was ďand to be able to have cognition while in that frozen timeĒ.

    Usually (almost always, when the Triple Warmer Meridian takes over, the hypothalamus become engaged which in turn engages the adrenals, and the entire body become flushed and ready for the fight or flight response.

    How does time distortion fit into that?

    Can you tie your post into time distortion and cognitive thinking skills while in that state?

    And then how you think it might be done?

    Some hints would be ďtime distortionĒ by Erickson and Cooper.

    Another would be ďUsing Your Brain for a ChangeĒ by Richard Bandler.

    This is fun;-)

    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette©


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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post

    Some hints would be “time distortion” by Erickson and Cooper.

    Another would be “Using Your Brain for a Change” by Richard Bandler.

    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette©
    Or you could use "Fundementals of Physiology" by Lauralee Sherwood
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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Great post John,

    I was in a full-contact fight almost 2 years ago against a really tough fighter who has won titles in kickboxing, jiu-jitsu, and kung fu.

    We fought in a really small ring, and he was trying to KO me. While I did get hit with some vicious shots, I found my Kenpo, nonetheless, working awesome for me.

    But here is where "time stopped":

    Every time he tried to shoot for my legs, I found the Kenpo RAM TECHNIQUES working awesome for me, almost like I had saw everything occur in slow motion. I wouldn't have guessed that those techniques would have been the ones that worked so easy for me before the fight. But they worked.....BIG TIME.

    And because it was a small ring, quick steps to zones of sanctuary and obscurity were essential, as were taking angles of least resistance. Without these, I would have been on the end of a lot of punishment against the ropes.

    It was a great fight, and I found that Kenpo can withstand any art if one's training is intense, and very consistent.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickName99 View Post
    According to Mr Lee Bachman's "Kenpo Theory"

    "Adrenalin is a hormone that is released from the organ known as the adrenal gland. When it is released it is broken down into two (2) elements; epinephrine and norepinephrine. Epinephrine increases the heart rate, norepinephrine causes stronger contraction of the heart muscle which allows for the movement of more blood. More blood is moving, more oxygen is available to the areas where is most needed. This provides for strength beyond normal human capacity. As the result of a sudden charge, the brain functions faster than normal thus giving the illusion of slower time passage. During this time passage you have the opportunity to engage in the process of mental rehearsal. In mental rehearsal the task is already completed in the mind before the body experiences it."
    See....I would have thought that too!!! No doubt I had some adreneline pumping!! But..those neurotransmitters you mention don't account for the very clear thinking that I had. They SHOULD restrict higher cognitive functioning. They are vaso-constrictors....meaning that the blood vessels in the brain tighten and restrict the flow of blood by a great deal. That's why a person in what's commonly called the 'fight or flight' response can't be expected to make rational/objective decisions. Which is GOOD....because it helps deliver that HUGE dose of power to your bodies ability to ACT, because it sends the blood swiftly through your major muscle groups in order to produce greater work than it would normally be capable of...besides when you're in a life or death struggle..cognitive thought processes are not exactly number one on the priority list.

    So...ok, I could see the 'time stood still' element being explained with adreneline I suppose....but what about the very clear thinking and immediate understanding of what needed to be done?? That's what gets me the most. I can't speak for the experiences of others, but in my cases...that was the element that surprised me the most.

    Thoughts?

    Your Brother
    John

    PS: One other thing. In the instance where I lept from my bike because I just "Knew" that I had too...yet I didn't know why until afterwards...??? What about that?
    My mother, being a VERY religious person, simply said: "Guardian Angel / Devine Intervention"....which I'm fine with!! (and thankful for)
    Just wanting to know if others have had this experience too.
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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Many years ago during my short lived career as a roofer I had this happen to me. I was on a 3 story house in the Oakland Hills, sitting close to the edge of the roof. I tried to scoot back from the edge and my foot slipped into the old rotten wooden gutter which proceeded to give way. I slid off the roof much like a child would go down a slide on a playground. On the way down I clearly remember it seeming like time had slowed way down. Into my head popped something I had heard many years before...that sometimes drunk drivers walk away from serious car wrecks because their bodies are totally relaxed. I relaxed my body before I landed and believe that saved me from more serious injury. I did end up fracturing my pelvis and elbow and misplacing several vertebrae but the doctors all said I was extremely lucky to have only received those injuries and not worse.
    That was my last day as a roofer, thats a brutal job even when you dont fall off stuff.
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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    I've had it happen a couple times. Always absolutely fascinating. And I'm always left with an appreciation for the Robert Monroe Discovery/Gateway Hemi-Sync affirmation: We are more than our physical bodies.

    Still froo,

    D.
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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Time doesn't actually stop. I don't think anyone has the power to warp or manipulate the space/time continuem! I think it's a matter of how you recall what happened to you.

    Spontaneity is the ultimate goal of the kenpo practicioner. To be able to react on a subconcious level without having to process one's options to ever changing variables of combat.

    I have been in a few scraps, and remembering them it "seemed" that time stopped during the altercation. It was like I had plenty of time to scroll through my mental rolodex of options to the attacks coming at me. In reality, I simply reacted and went with the flow of the attack to my advantage as I have been trained to do!
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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    I believe I have had this experience, though when more intense I did not perceive it as time slowing or stopping, so much as instantly not just knowing, but truly comprehending every detail of the situation at once.

    The most extreme incident occurred while I was driving on a familiar road at night. It was straight, but had many small rises restricting line of sight, so it was a 45mph zone that I was doing 60 in.

    I was mostly on autopilot when I crested a small hill, and saw the headlights of a van not half a second in front of me, maybe 30 feet.

    At that instant I knew the van was white, angled toward me in my lane, half out of a gravel driveway. There was a man with brown hair wearing plaid on the right side of my lane 6 feet from the van, between us. 8 feet from the van on the other side, in the left lane and out of the light, was another man wearing jeans. None of them were moving.

    I also knew that the brake was not an option at that range. My arms moved according to my newfound comprehension, swerving me left around the van, then right around it; missing both the van, and the second man by a foot at most, knowing exactly what I was doing, exactly how much distance there would be from each to my car.

    I didnít know I could move my arms that fast on a steering wheel. The entire thing was over before my normal consciousness realized what was happening.

    --------

    I have experienced it to a much lesser degree as time slowing, mostly doing jumps on my BMX as a kid.
    --------
    Once in sparring I had no conscious memory of the action, and had to feel what my muscles had done. One instant he had knocked me back with a strong reverse punch, the next I was setting my right foot down, and 2 people were catching him on the other side of the room before he stumbled into the bag stand.

    I eventually figured out I had circumvented his next punch on my way in with a front thrust kick to his chest that lifted his 200+lbs. off the mat.

    Without the memory of cognitive function I would not mention that in the same context, except that the experience left me with the same feeling of having done something with absolutely perfect precision.


    I am definitely interested in learning more about these states, the differences between them, and how to achieve them at will.

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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Time doesn't actually stop. I don't think anyone has the power to warp or manipulate the space/time continuem! I think it's a matter of how you recall what happened to you.

    Spontaneity is the ultimate goal of the kenpo practicioner. To be able to react on a subconcious level without having to process one's options to ever changing variables of combat.

    I have been in a few scraps, and remembering them it "seemed" that time stopped during the altercation. It was like I had plenty of time to scroll through my mental rolodex of options to the attacks coming at me. In reality, I simply reacted and went with the flow of the attack to my advantage as I have been trained to do!
    You're exactly right.
    TIME...doesn't stop. It's our sense of it that's different. It's our subjective sense of it. Time is an objective rate of the passage of events in sequence. This "Stand Still" thing.....just how we Feel at those times.
    AGREED?

    A psychology theorist that I enjoy is Dr. Csikszentmihalyi.
    The theory that he's most known for is simply called "Flow"...and I like it a LOT.
    According to him Flow is the mental state of operation in which a person is fully immersed in what they are doing, characterized by a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and success in a given activity or process.

    As Csikszentmihalyi sees it, components of an experience of flow can be specifically enumerated; he presents the following:
    1. Clear goals (expectations and rules are discernible and goals are attainable and align appropriately with one's skill set and abilities).
    2. Concentrating and focusing, a high degree of concentration on a limited field of attention (a person engaged in the activity will have the opportunity to focus and to delve deeply into it).
    3. A loss of the feeling of self-consciousness, the merging of action and awareness.
    4. Distorted sense of time - one's subjective experience of time is altered.
    5. Direct and immediate feedback (successes and failures in the course of the activity are apparent, so that behavior can be adjusted as needed).
    6. Balance between ability level and challenge (the activity is neither too easy nor too difficult).
    7. A sense of personal control over the situation or activity.
    8. The activity is intrinsically rewarding, so there is an effortlessness of action.
    9. When in the flow state, people become absorbed in their activity, and focus of awareness is narrowed down to the activity itself, action awareness merging.
    Not all are needed for flow to be experienced.

    The times in Kenpo that I've enjoyed THE MOST have been times of "Flow"! Times in which the DOING of Kenpo was all that existed in my experience. Those are the best. The relevence here is point #4, a distorted sense of time. Again.....it's our Sense of it that's altered, not time itself.

    BUT: I don't think that this theory covers what we're discussing here. I think this is more along the lines of what you are talking about, Celtic Crippler, when you said
    Spontaneity is the ultimate goal of the kenpo practicioner. To be able to react on a subconcious level without having to process one's options to ever changing variables of combat.
    That spontaneity and acting from the 'subconscious' without needing to process. But it's different isn't it? Life or death situations vs. times that challenge level matches competency and enjoyment levels....??

    hmm....worth thinking about at least.

    Your Brother
    John
    PS: HERE is a link to Dr. Csikszentmihalyi's book
    FLOW: the Psychology of Optimal Experience. (I've got it and it's workbook. VERY VERY good stuff)
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    Dr. Dave in da house (04-27-2007)

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    Default One simple method of accidental time distortion!

    Now there are 2 general areas of time distortion.

    Area one is where you go into a theta state and tell yourself that you are going to expand time. In other words you are going to take 10 seconds at theta, expand time, and spend 2 hours there studying project X.

    General Area #1:
    1. This type of time distortion uses the objective world and the subject world as metaphors for how the time can be different.

    2. And, as any person who has tranced out studying any thing, it also works in reverse. You get tied into the book or movie or lesson you are experiencing, and all of a sudden you notice that 5 hours has gone by.

    3. Then there is the pain syndrome. Letís say someone has cancer and has a pain release. So even though that pain might only last 10 seconds, they feel that it has lasted hours, even days.

    4. Then there is the pleasure syndrome. So if you are having sex, and youíve taken the little blue pill that lets you go for 4 hours, because you are totally focused internally on feeling good and NOT on noticing time, your involvement time might feel like minutes.

    What do you guys think?

    How have you done the above?

    What experiences have you had in the above?

    How do you get the experiences back so you can do it consciously, out of choice, when you want it?

    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette, The Speed Man
    Ps. Iíll post some thing about general area #2, after my next client. Busy, busy, busy.

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    Dr. Dave in da house (04-27-2007)

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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    Not to nitpick but I believe perception is not fixed.
    sean
    So Sean,
    What do you mean?
    Doc John

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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    I've had it happen a couple times. Always absolutely fascinating. And I'm always left with an appreciation for the Robert Monroe Discovery/Gateway Hemi-Sync affirmation: We are more than our physical bodies.

    Still froo,

    D.
    Doc Dave,
    Can you tell me about one of them?
    What happened just before it happened?
    Using NLP language is fine.
    Doc John

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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Time doesn't actually stop. I don't think anyone has the power to warp or manipulate the space/time continuem! I think it's a matter of how you recall what happened to you. !
    Celtic,
    You know don't you, that according to some (all?) authorities in physics, that time in this objective universe is a "construct" that we use so we can keep track of things?

    And that if something has already occured but you don't know that it has occured, you can change it.

    William Tiller covers much of this in his materials.

    I read him very slowly, like meat, it takes awhile to digest properly.

    Doc John, the Speed Man

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    Default Re: has time ever stopped for you when fighting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerstripes View Post
    Many years ago during my short lived career as a roofer I had this happen to me. I was on a 3 story house in the Oakland Hills, sitting close to the edge of the roof. I tried to scoot back from the edge and my foot slipped into the old rotten wooden gutter which proceeded to give way. I slid off the roof much like a child would go down a slide on a playground. On the way down I clearly remember it seeming like time had slowed way down. Into my head popped something I had heard many years before...that sometimes drunk drivers walk away from serious car wrecks because their bodies are totally relaxed. I relaxed my body before I landed and believe that saved me from more serious injury. I did end up fracturing my pelvis and elbow and misplacing several vertebrae but the doctors all said I was extremely lucky to have only received those injuries and not worse.
    That was my last day as a roofer, thats a brutal job even when you dont fall off stuff.
    I find it interesting that your story line is virtually isomorphic to mine.

    I wonder if there is something that me need to know?

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette, the Speed Man

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