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Thread: Is Kenpo more than physical?

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    Default Is Kenpo more than physical?

    The following post is about something I've not yet seen a thread on.
    It's mainly about what Kenpo is and what Kenpo isn't.

    There is a physical side of Kenpo Karate.

    There is also a Mental Side to Kenpo Karate.

    I also think there is a Spiritual Side to Kenpo Karate.
    What do you think?

    The following thread is about the Mental and Spiritual aspects. I'd love to hear "thoughtful" opinions from others.

    Humbly & Respectfully yours in the Kenpo Arts
    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    >As I understood it, the copyrights of the posts writtn in forums by default are of the author and/or forum.
    >Writing the copyright symbol just pronounces and accentuates that fact.

    Hi Juan,

    There are a lot of thieves out there, and a lot of ignorant people out there, and putting a copyright VISUALLY on everything you do, makes them think twice before they claim what you did is theirs.

    I published my Doctoral Dissertation (Cognitive Restructuring Techniques for Martial Arts Athletes) back in 1987.

    A few months later I flip open “Martial Arts Trainer” magazine and I notice that there is a person in there SELLING my doctoral dissertation for $450 bucks. And then I picked up the other martial arts magazines and he had an ad in “Inside Kung-Fu” magazine also.

    So I called up both magazines and had the ads taken out. I then called up the thief and had him cease and desist. Boy was he mad.

    Here’s another story with a different ending.

    I was driving through Missoula back in 1985 and I noticed a big picture of me doing my FAMOUS flying side kick on the outside of a martial arts studio. The guy had taken the front photo from my book, “Secrets of Kenpo Karate”, and had it painted on his sign for advertising purposes.
    So, since I didn’t know the guy I stopped in and had a talk with him.
    I found out he was a black belt of one of my black belts (John McFadden) and he just didn’t know any better. I let him keep that sign of me doing the flying side kick up.

    >The book by Harry Browne is really illuminating. Good for those that want real freedom and real contol of their lives.

    Yep.

    I do a lot of consulting on business, on self-help healing (mentally and physically), on NLP Coaching, on Sports Performance coaching, blab, blab, blab and having the knowledge from that book has been a tremendous help for most of them.

    In my mind Kenpo Karate is MUCH MORE than block, punch and kick.
    Remember that Mr. Parker gave us a Creed to live by. And, to live by any creed we need to be able to recognize our own unconscious filters and OTHER people’s unconscious filters.

    There is a psychological side and a spiritual side to Kenpo Karate.
    Without them, we would be no more than a sweaty knuckle crunching weight lifting steroid taking moron that enjoys whomping the poop out of those smaller and less trainer.

    To me Kenpo Karate is much more than that.

    To me Kenpo Karate is KNOWING how people attempt to install guilt, fear, anxiety, (and other negative emotions) and knowing WHAT can be done about it as we keep our own psychic self-defense intact, alive, and maturing.

    Kenpo Karate does have a psychological side. It does have a mental training side and it does have a spiritual side.

    The part about right versus wrong, belongs in the spiritual side.
    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    Well, it's rather common for martial arts to have a spiritual component, isn't it? Many Chinese arts have chi training, and several Japanese styles have heavy Buddhist or Shinto philosophy. The Bujinkan's martial arts style, for example, includes training in Kuji, which are a Mikkyo Buddhist internal development tool.

    I think that when Senior Grand Master Parker created the American Kenpo Karate I study today, he made a conscious effort to remove such things. I remember once when he wrote in Infinite Insights into Kenpo Volume 1 that such methods should be avoided, and while such training can provide mental strength, or boost concentration, they should not be considered valid training methods, as no spiritual training methods have ever been scientifically proven effective.

    Personally, I do a lot of chi kung, and believe that spiritual training is useful, but as far as I know, none of the newer styles of kenpo teach this. I can't say for sure what the more traditional Japanese and Chinese styles teach, though.

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    Greetings.

    Kenpo practitioners go through a training methodology.

    This methodology can boil down to choices and taking action upon them.

    What does this mean?

    You train your body to control it better, so it does as you want, when you want, how you want it. More health, more choices, more freedom.

    The choice of controlling your physical self.

    You train Kenpo Waza to control others. That way you have control of your physical environment as to improve your chances of survival.

    A choice to have more control of your life.

    You protect yourself from others that want to control you against your will, and probably not in your best interests. These other people and forces may want to control your life, to the point of wanting your termination.

    Thus it's also a choice to protect that which you love and/or find important, and have the force, power and skills to carry it out.

    With this choices then certain skills must be developed to the highest degree.

    You choose to commit to developing these skills to the point where you feel you can carry out those choices.

    Note that what I've written is high chunk... a bit abstract.

    It can be easily chunked down into details of specific instances for mental skills to control your life and/or physical skills to survive violence. And more.

    More later.

    Enjoy!

    Juan M. Mercado

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    hocus pocus wont save your life.. but the focus and mental control you can develop can help you stay centered in a chaotic altercation. rather than letting your body "blindly" attacking what targets it finds.. and possibly getting you in more trouble than you need to be..y

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    There is a phrase in Japanese that translates out to "to be moved by spirit". In traditional martial arts, it's assumed that, through persistent training and meditation, the individual artist becomes more spiritually attuned...that the veil between the physical and spiritual worlds thins, and one can sort of become a martial arts medium, recieving tutelage from ancestors and spirits of warriors past.

    In flight or fight scenarios where one sort of blanks out, and wakes to standing over their wrecked opponents with no recall of how they did it, or with a detached sense of having gotten there in a cruisin' state of flow, that would be having been moved by spirit. The Shinto idea (regional shamanism in Japan, sombined with charactistics from buddhism) is that your ancestors or tutelary spirits move through you...you become the marionette, and they the puppeteers. Mushin, zanshin, whatever...you stop being the doer, and are merely the "done through".

    I liked the poetic nature of the idea, having fought from the dissociated flow state, and having been (in that moment) impeccable. No mistakes; every move weaving through complex relatinships, setting up the next, stacking multiple opponents, and wading through them like a hot knife through butter. The whole time, watching as if from some place outsode the conflict. Frigging awesome experience. Compared to times I've NOT had that sense of flow, and couldn't buy a decent move with a billion bucks in gold. So I liked the "moved by spirit" concept. When I teach, I utilize hypnotic states (for those interested) to attempt to induce that dissociated flow state in students as they move, so it's easier to get back there when they fight.

    Studying Ericksonian Hypnosis under two of Milton Ericksons top guys helped a lot. But there still are'nt explanatory mechanisms in physiological psych or learning theory to account for some of the things that happen in flow states. Like doing moves you've never seen or practiced before, and they come out better than the stuff you've drilled for decades.

    BF Skinner made a big deal about language and skill acquisition being the result of trial and error learning...of repetition. Then Noam Chomsky came out and blew that idea so far out of the water,that Skinner lost his premier corner office at his Ivy League home. Trial and error alone cannot account for the millisecond creativity that occurs in moments of flow. For me, I choose to believe in Spirit...some aspect of our selves that existed before we did, will after this body is gone, and that can communicate with our current minds through that still intuition in the back of your mind. That gut check we rely on. I may die and find out I'm horribly wrong and this was it. But I might not.

    After all, the intuitive aspect of the eternal self is what's represented by the dragon; the wisdom of Spirit eventually conquering and guiding the physical strength of the primal warrior, the Tiger. If you're a kenpoist, there's very likely a representation of that is-ness on your crest.

    Mr. P. also was curious about the eternal aspect of self, and how it might inform our physical performances. He spoke often about kahuna in Hawaii, and their unseen sources of information...the computer banks they tapped into, that other people couldn't.

    Perhaps all us spiritualists are whacked out. If we are, we lose. If we aren't, everybody eventually wins. I like win-win.

    Best Regards,

    Dave
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    I think of Kenpo with five sides, at least for me.
    1) Physical
    2) Mental
    3) Psychological
    4) Social
    5) Spiritual

    To me, spiritual is not necessarily religious nor is it synonym of religion. There is a strong relationship between the first four that help encompass the spirituality side. It is more than just Chi. It is not narrowed down to a definition involving only a "higher being".

    In fact, I wrote to my instructor as a journal entry last year touching on how Kenpo effected me with these five sides. The first two were the most obvious during the early years of my training. It was then through a series of different experiences and awareness throughout the years that I realized there were much more--deeper layers of kenpo. It is much more than just merely a "martial art", it is more than training "different parts to make a whole". The spiritual part cannot really be taught and is better discovered by the individual. This realization is when, for me, the Kenpo I have becomes a part of who I am and crosses over into several facets of my life.

    - Ceicei
    Studying martial arts is for life, not for the color of the belt.

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    This all has to do with fitness. Fitness is broken down into five catagories: Mental, physical, emotional, perceptual, and spiritual. While the spiritual side is important, it is only one of five.
    Sean

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    >The last stage of martial arts development is said to be the metaphysical stage. >When telepathy, precognition and other superhuman skills are availble at the >beckoning of the developed practitioner.


    I just got back into town and Nelson told me about this thread.
    The man who wrote this thread did confuse several of my products into a simple incorrect post with incorrect data.

    I’m sure he did mean well.

    Like you said Rob, “You had to rewrite it to make it readable”. Thank you for helping him out that way.

    I'm reposting this on the spiritual thread because it also fits here.

    >The subject is particularlly well outlined by Grandmaster La Tourrette in his DVD >series on SPEED HITTING.

    Actually in that DVD there is NOTHING on the meta-physical state, or meta-physical stage of learning. (And I “HATE” being called a Grandmaster almost as much as I hate being called “John”. I desire to have people refer to me with Doc, or Doc John, or Dr. La Tourrette, or Mr. La Tourrette, or Sir.)

    But in “Mental Training of a Warrior” (1978, pages 54-55) I did have 3 paragraphs about the 3rd stage, the meta-physical stage.

    One marijuana warrior, who’d spent a tour under the influence in Viet Nam, really loved those 3 paragraphs, and didn’t even notice the rest of the book. (Joke)

    The 3 stages referred to back then are:”
    1. The physical stage.
    2. The mental stage.
    3. The meta-physical stage.

    I no longer use those terms. And I really know a lot more about them now, even more that most that profess to know but have only read a book. There is a big different between “following the leader” and “doing the damn drills, getting the experience and the skills”.

    Sort of like that one person calling “Chi” goobly gook. That just tells me he doesn’t know what he is talking about, and is still back in the dark ages believing that the world is flat. Which is okay. I am NOT a guru, nor am I one that goes out on a missionary project.

    Now that first stage, the physical stage filled up at least 28 books and 70 DVD’s that I’ve produced.

    This is what most people in the martial arts are aware of. Then the most advanced of them are aware of Sun Tzu, Musashi, and Mao. They also know strategies and tactics.

    Just like Cung Le whomping kumdingee in that full contact match last week. He controlled the distance of the reactionary gap through “knowing” (feel) and then dominated his opponent at will. A classic example of a high level “set” point and “twitch” point calibration and usage.

    Now that 2nd stage is what I devoted most of my life to in the 80’s, the mental stage. This was my dissertation, all my hypnosis studies, my NLP training, blab, blab, blab. Ways of using all 3 minds together to get your Kenpo Karate even better.

    Now that 3rd stage is what I’ve devoted most of my life to in the past 10 years, the so-called meta-physical stage.

    Again, I do NOT call it by that name now, but something totally different.

    Now I talk about the 9 different energy systems, and how they can be enhanced by your own mind, by other people’s minds (conscious, unconscious and super conscious), by the emotions both positive and negative.

    Just like Dave was talking about how he uses Ericksonian Hypnosis with his Kenpo Karate. He still calls it Kenpo Karate.

    Just like Dave talked about his experiences with Mr. Ed Parker, and their conversations about the Kahuna of Hawaii.

    In fact because of people like Ed Parker, and Michael Echanis I did go and start studying Huna in-depth (Eventually ending up with my Kumu certification in 1998 from the World Huna Organization.). I found that most of the Huna taught was literally incorrect.

    It was taught by foggy minded confused Earth elements that had never heard of a Clarity Model, and never heard of a VERIFICATION PROCESS.

    Most people don’t realize that Huna researcher and founder Max Freedom Long and Silva Mind Control founder Jose Silva (a hypnosis trainer) were long time friends.

    So the BEST Huna out there is a combination of the Clarity Model, Hypnosis, and the VERIFIED teachings of the Kahuna. And during the past 9 years I have also taken all I’ve learned about Energy Medicine and Energy Psychology and added it to the Huna mix.

    NONE of that is taught in my Kenpo Karate, nor is it mentioned in my book, “Mental Training of a Warrior”, nor on my DVD, “Secrets of Speed Hitting: how-to-hit a man 11 times or more in one second or less!”

    Now I was asked by Nightengale-Conant to co-develop an Ultra-Mind Remote Viewing/Remote Influence course for me. I was assisted in that task by Dennis Higgins and Ed Bernd.

    >The speed at which he travels through space is astonishing and so accurate that >more than 10 hits can all take place within a second on specific nerve cavity >targets. These techniques appear physically impossible, yet people like La Tourrette >appear to make it look normal. This is the ultimate human experience in my >oppinion, the knowledge of how to perform the highest activities of physiology with >ease whenever necessary. That's what I call inspiration.

    Yep.
    I’m very good with the physical side of Kenpo Karate. I should be. I’ve been doing it all my adult life (34 years).

    The meta-physical side I referred to in that 1978 book was more on the level of awareness, persistence, self-confidence, and self-esteem.

    For example Jack Williams has trained with me since he was 4 years old. He is now 23 years old. When he was 8 years old (an orange belt) at a tournament he whomped the poop out of a Chip Wright kiddy black belt 5 to zero. Now when Jack spars he knows what you are going to do before you (conscious mind) know what you’ll do next. He can “read” you so good because of your analogue that speaking is NOT necessary.

    Jack has also been highly trained in Remote Viewing. Does he use RV when he spars?

    NOPE! It’s too damn slow.

    What he does use is his 3rd Chakra awareness of EMOTIONS (Amy talking a little about this) to notice what his opponents are feeling (anger, fear, frustration, pain, confused) so that he can attack them when they can’t see him “incoming” because of their own incorrect attention and incorrect intention.

    Using your 3rd Chakra to FEEL is a form of remote viewing, and can be done instantly in the presence of another or several thousands of miles from the other.

    The way I teaching “seeing” for Speed Hitting is based upon the NLP Trainer’s state, the Kahuna Hakalau state (I’ve written about it on this forum before) and many adjustments I’m made through trial and error, and research.

    That specific method of “seeing” uses the 3rd eye (called the 7th Chakra by Edgar Cayce, and the 6th Chakra by Donna, both of whom could easily see the energies) which is located between the eyes.

    Enough for now.
    If anyone wants more, let me know.
    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    As with any supra-personal technology, it's also wise to remember the sources.

    My old Great Uncle Walter was an umpteenth generation Cherokee medicine man, having recieved the call and obligation from his father, and so on back as far as any family tradition memory could recall. My grandfather was also, but he died before I was born, so I never even got to meet the man; Uncle Walter was that figure for me. He and my gramps were from a litter of 16 kids from same father, 2 different wives...lot's of twins (considered auspicious for breeding medicine men...when you have several sets of twins, then have a single kid, then more twins, the assumption is that the single kid left their twin on the other side to coach them on making good medicine and act on their behalf...my grandfather and Walter were the only non-twins in the brood).

    Walter didn't have any sons with the unction to learn the family tradition, so Walter was hep to let it die with him. Which it pretty much did. He did share bit with me (only a very small bit...I make no froo-froo claims about being an aboriginal medicine man) over a couple of summers I spent with him. He passed before I decided to immerse myself into alternative health and mind-body medicine, otherwise I would have apprenticed myself to him.

    Some time goes by...I meet a lovely young woman from England (the one who got away), and we spend ridiculous amounts of time hunting down folk healers from different backgrounds and gluing ourselve to them in apprenticeships. The vast majority of what's available are new age silly folk teaching at individual seminars or conferences. Some lilly white haule claiming to teach huna, or German-Irish Wisconson housewife claiming to be the 89th generation successor of blackfoot shamen & holding sweats in a pup-tent in her back yard, and the like. There was an extremely different feel between how Walter presented his belief system, and how the new-age froo element presented theirs. And if you're around this stuff long enough, you start to see changes introduced through new-age syncreticism.

    Take huna, for example. I grew up as a kid in Hawaii down the street from one of the big wave surf gods of the 50's and 60's. He married a local kahuness. Scary psychic...she would tell haole tourists where they lost there stuff at back home (i.e., the locket you lost of your dead mothers is between the carpet and the wall behind the sofa, close to the lampstand...if I'm right, send cash; if not, no harm, eh?). She did her dances, chants, took a couple of us kids on some walkabouts to sacred sites in the hills above Waienae Kai "where the spirits lived strong". Another neighbor was also a kahuna, but not for finding stuff. He was more of an exorcist and healer...he would identify the energies or spirits (ancestral or elemental) that had attached themselves to various locations and were exerting negative influences on the health of the people around that place, then craft small tiki or charms out of sea shells, and place them in key locations. Ask them, and they tell you about a link to the forces of life...very jedi sounding; force = mana, the energy of life. Anthropologists will tell you the positive effects of aboriginal folk healing rituals are "always, only, ever" the placebo effect of cultural conditioning and personal expectation. That makes sense with Mr. Hopi'i's tiki's and seashell totems, but doesn't account for Violets uncanny ability to find stuff she's never seen, for people she only just met...and get paid for after the fact, because she was right.

    So, some years go by, and I get into NLP. There is a cheesy guy (very used-car salesman, greasey feeling dripping off of him when you meet him, unless you buy into his artificial charms) named Tad. Tad eventually gets to Trainers status. Writes a book, does some projects...eventually lands in Hawaii for a while. Where he decides it's time to study huna. He ends up claiming to have recieved the only real true succession of honest to god huna that remains. He'll do it to you or teach it to you for a nominal fee. If you really understood just how closed of a society local Hawaiians really are to outsiders (particularly about their mystic traditions), you would get what an absurd claim this is, but that's for another day (to give you a hint, there are families who would rather their kids produce heirs to the tradition via incest than teach an outsider). Either way, Tad's involvement in NLP and Huna starts a wave of Huna+NLP folks. Huna seminars pre-Tad used to be Serge King talking about contacting spirits in your back yard, or getting to know the Hawaiian version of your guardian angel. Now, they are haole's (whites...non-natives) talking about goal-setting (using keys to well-formed outcomes from beginner NLP models), and teaching personal growth models that are NLP re-hashed, but with some fun new imagery, and Hawaiian words used to describe or name the process.

    So, just as in kenpo, religion, or any other organization, we have a rift....between mainstream/new model zealots, and stodgy old mystics from the old school traditions. Huna teachers from A.N.D. lineages will make thousands of dollars helping people find their belly buttons with their minds, and teaching them to exhale aggressively with a fire-breath. Meanwhile, Violet will bide her time until she meets a young local gal with that certain something, whose life has been filled with bizarre coincidences, and train her to be the next in line. Mr. Hopi'i will likely train one of his dozens of sons, or take the same path of waiting for the right rugrat to come along and pass on the tradition to him.

    And, just as in kenpo, religion, or any other organized system of thought, most of what you'll find is crap, watered down for mass consumption like a pop music version of Pachelbel's Canon in D Minor. But if you're diligent, and look very hard, you may find an Uncle Walter, Violet or Mr. Hopi'i to take you to a next step in your personal desired journey; Canon is still played by philharmonic orchestra's; they just don't get as much radio time as this weeks newest pop-tart showing off her lack-o-panties (don't get me wrong; I think this is a great thing...they are fun to look at, they just lack any real talent...which is why they need sho much showmanship).

    Choose wisely, and help carry on good traditions.

    Sorry for the rant...it just really crossed my mind after this thread started.

    Best Regards,

    Dave
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    The part about right versus wrong, belongs in the spiritual side.
    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    So would you say that this could fall under the heading of "Kenpo Ethics" or "Kenpo morals"?
    If it's "Spiritual" then would it be conscience?

    Thank you for your contribution, by the way.

    Your Brother
    John
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    "Striving for success without hard work is like trying to harvest where you haven't planted"
    ~ David Bly

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    >So, some years go by, and I get into NLP. There is a cheesy guy (very used-car salesman, greasey feeling dripping >off of him when you meet him, unless you buy into his artificial charms) named Tad.

    We have virtually the SAME feeling from him. I love it. Dave, you are also 3rd chakra centered. It makes being around some people hard to do. You also can easily pick up their feelings, the real ones hiding behind the car salesman grin, and rapport building skills. Glad to know the real you;-)

    I went to one of his Huna weeks and it was an up sell to other trainings. He did NOT teach what he had promised.

    So I wrote an article about him (name NOT given in the article) for the World Huna Newsletter (1999) and told about his covert use of anchors and negative propulsion systems that he used to drive people to his seminars.

    He took me off of his mailing his.

    >Tad eventually gets to Trainers status. Writes a book, does some projects...eventually lands in Hawaii for a while. >Where he decides it's time to study huna. He ends up claiming to have recieved the only real true succession of >honest to god huna that remains. He'll do it to you or teach it to you for a nominal fee.

    LOL!

    It’s NOT a nominal fee anymore. The last time I looked it was $10,000 for a 5 dayer. That’s before room, board, airfare, car rental, etc. This is NOT badmouthing what he charges.

    I admire a man that knows what he wants and then does what is necessary to get it. He also has one of the best homestudy NLP courses on the planet.

    The Max Freedom Long organization does have problems with him also. Why? Because Max Freedom Long copyrighted the word “Huna” back in 1948 when he founded his Church, even before Txx was born.

    But Txx claims "he" is the father of Huna. It just ain't so.

    And Txx did talk “Atua” and “Big John” to come in with him to give his a sense of credibility. Big John just died last year of a heart attack. He had the sweetest voice I’ve ever hear. I loved his Hawaiian chanting. Close to Jimmy Rogers sound from back in the last 50’s.

    What I’ve noticed is that many of the higher up positions of the Max Freedom Long Huna organization are also 32 degree Masons (Scottish rite or York rite). They have a fraternal brotherhood that fits quite well into the Huna family traditions, and also fit well into the Kenpo Karate traditions of this forum.

    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    Ps. Being 3rd Chakra centered does have some negative side affects, at least until you learn how to work with them. First, your adrenals get burned out. Your triple warmer (your fight or flight response is out of whack). Your radiant circuits get turned off, and in many cases, FOREVER. That means you become cynical, and look for the sleaze bag instead of noticing what is good, right and progressive. Your endocrine system becomes unbalanced. Your Triple warmer robs energy from your 4th chakra (throat) and your thyroid becomes non-productive as far as producing the necessary hormones. The good news is, THAT IS ALL EASILY FIXABLE with the proper energy drills.

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    As with any supra-personal technology, it's also wise to remember the sources.
    So, some years go by, and I get into NLP. There is a cheesy guy (very used-car salesman, greasey feeling dripping off of him when you meet him, unless you buy into his artificial charms) named Tad. Tad eventually gets to Trainers status. Writes a book, does some projects...eventually lands in Hawaii for a while. Where he decides it's time to study huna. He ends up claiming to have recieved the only real true succession of honest to god huna that remains. He'll do it to you or teach it to you for a nominal fee
    Dr. Dave, thank you for a great post. Tad and many of those like him, who are purveyors of junk like Huna and NLP, are only interested in lining their pockets while they pretend to be something they are not. It is interesting that you actually grew up in Hawaii, and can quickly see through this.

    Like the old saying goes, you can't buy your way to heaven.
    Still sweating, still training. Enlightenment is hard work! TANSTAAFL

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    >So would you say that this could fall under the heading of "Kenpo Ethics" or "Kenpo morals"?
    >If it's "Spiritual" then would it be conscience?

    Hi Brother John, I’m pretty sure it depends upon the person.

    I find people’s different meta-programs very interesting. There are about 60 of them; most of them NOT known of by those that have them. They are normally unconscious habits of thought that are learned from others by unconscious modeling.

    The Chinese method (from Traditional Chinese Medicine) has 5 broad groups, but once learned total even more than the psychological ones.

    For example an Earth element will be irritated at someone who has Wood and Metal features. So to an Earth element, a Wood/Metal is not ethical. But to another Wood or Metal he is very ethical.

    I think that Txx is ethical to himself, and believes that what he teaches is worth every penny he charges.

    Neither Dave nor I believe that, BUT BOTH Dave and I do believe in NLP because we’ve BOTH studied and used NLP.

    We know that NLP works “if” we do the drills right.

    Dave and I BOTH believe in Hypnosis because we’ve both studied, trained in and used Hypnosis on a personal and a professional basis.

    We know that HYPNOSIS works “if” we do the drills right.

    Dave has been around Mr. Parker, and has talked about the Kahuna with him. So have I. Dave knows that Mr. Parker had Kahuna in his ancestry, and did believe in those concepts. I also talked over those philosophies with Mr. Parker. Dave lived in Hawaii and knew about some of the legends of Hawaii. I have visited Hawaii many times, and I’ve given seminars in Hawaii 3 times. So Dave has a “living” perspective that most who profess to believe or not believe, don’t have.

    What is neat is that Dave’s concepts, Mr. Parker’s concepts and MY concepts on “Huna shamanism” have been validated and analyzed by top level scientists, anthropologists and psychologists in the field.

    Let me give you some names of the authorities on Shamanism.

    People like Jean Houston, Michael Harner, Gary Doore, Mircea Eliade, Richard Noll, Mary Schmidt, Mihaly Hoppal, Jeanne Arterberg, Stanley Krippner, D. Scott Rogo, Jim Swan, Larry G. Peters, Rabbi Yonassan Gershom, John Redtail Freesoul, Joan Halifax, Ven. E. Nandisvcara Nayake Thero, Ralph Metzner, Robert Ellwood, David Feinstein, Brooke Medicine Eagle, and William Lyon, to name just a few of the VERY RESPECTED scientific names in the field.

    I think it is very amusing when someone of low knowledge, or from his own negative personal emotional sickness damns something that he is just ignorant about, attempting to spread his narrow-mindedness to others that wish to learn more.

    Dave is NOT that way, but a searcher/even in Kenpo, and in the areas of healing.

    Dave does have “feelings” about those he meets, and those feelings are very specific and I’ll betcha that they are very accurate.
    I also have feelings about those I meet and I have feelings about those whose posts I read. So if someone posts under one name and then posts under a different name, and then posts again using a different name, it is easy to notice who he is, no matter which name he is currently using.

    In NLP we would call that type of sensitive person a “visceral” person.

    In energy medicine we call that person 3rd chakra aware.

    Both situations are the same with a different name.

    Both types of situations can be easily taught.

    I did cover some of this in an earlier post.

    Much of this is covered in Allen Sargent’s book, “The Other Minds Eye”.

    It is also covered with SCIENTIFIC VERIFICATION in “Science and Human Transformation: subtle energies, intentionality and consciousness” by William A. Tiller, Ph.D. Dr. Tiller is one of the world’s leading scientist on the structure of matter, being a Stanford professor for over 30 years in the Department of Materials Science.

    There are many other sources of VALID and VERIFIED RESEARCH on what I’ve referred to. This is enough for those wanting to know more, to get those source materials and study a bit. For those that do not do that, good for them. They can keep their limiting beliefs.

    As Gary Halbert stated, “Only sell hamburgers to a starving crowd”.

    As Dan Kennedy says, “never attempt to teach a pig to sing. The pig doesn’t want to learn how, and no one wants to listen to him sing. So everyone is wasting their time”. Best to find someone who is interested.

    Now Time Distortion for the martial arts is very simple, but it’s not easy.

    By that I’m talking about the steps are simple to follow, but they do take persistence and proper practice. Enough practice so that TIME DISTORTION becomes an automatic part of any of your Waza.

    Persistence is a spiritual trait.

    FEEDBACK, “NOT” Wheaties, is the breakfast of champions.

    If what you are doing, works, then it is valid, regardless of the whiny wimps say that argue until they are blue in the face, and their hearts explode because of an over-wrought Triple Warmer reaction causing the Pericardium meridian to back flow, squeezing their heart.

    >Thank you for your contribution, by the way.

    You are welcome Brother John.

    I love this group, and I love the neat possibility thinking that permeates throughout most of the posts.

    Thank you Brother John for giving me those interesting concepts you brought up so I could answer them better.

    Mahalo.

    With total respect,
    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    >I also have feelings about those I meet and I have feelings about those whose posts I read. So if someone posts under one name and then posts under a different name, and then posts again using a different name, it is easy to notice who he is, no matter which name he is currently using.
    This part is certainly true. I've been able to do this myself, and have also known quite a few others who can tell just by their feelings and their intuition when someone is posting under different names. It doesn't matter how hard they try, by using intuition we know who they are.....even if they are a man, for example, who posts as a woman.

    Intuition is very powerful, whether it can be considered "spiritual" is questionable and that is a personal belief choice, but we all seem to have this ability to some extent.
    Last edited by kenposearcher; 03-13-2007 at 01:08 AM.
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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    You are welcome Sir.

    Neither Dave nor I believe that, BUT BOTH Dave and I do believe in NLP because we’ve BOTH studied and used NLP.
    I find NLP fascinating!! But I've got a hangup about it. The JARGON. It seems to me that the study is steeped in it's own nomenclature (Big Time) and that can make it difficult to pick up for a neophyte like myself. Do you have any suggestions where a layman like myself can go to learn more? (PM me if you like on this one)

    As for the TCM 'elemental' theories...
    how does one know if they are metal, wood....etc.?
    How do you know this about someone else? (whom you may have lots, some, little or NO information about)

    Thank you in advance.
    Your Brother
    John
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    "Striving for success without hard work is like trying to harvest where you haven't planted"
    ~ David Bly

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    If what you are doing, works, then it is valid, regardless of the whiny wimps say that argue until they are blue in the face, and their hearts explode because of an over-wrought Triple Warmer reaction causing the Pericardium meridian to back flow, squeezing their heart.
    This is quite a funny picture to visualize. Hopefully this does not happen to someone, it would be quite sad if in real life they suffered this way. Even worse if their entire body were to back flow and explode, like in the movie Live and Let Die where James Bond shot Mr. Big with a compressed-air shark killer gun, and he exploded all over the ceiling. Yuck.

    Then, Roger Moore delivered the appropro punchline: ""He always did have an inflated opinion of himself." So true in so many cases.
    Still sweating, still training. Enlightenment is hard work! TANSTAAFL

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    Greetings.

    Brother John, the easiest introduciton to NLP methodologies is "Influencing with Integrity" by Laborde. Or the NLP comprehensive group's (Steve and Connie Rae Andreas, et al) "NLP: the New Technology of Achievement".

    They tech by showing drills and verification of processes... if you take the time to do them.

    About the elements, you can google for a general list of attributes. Yet it is very intuitive.

    In actuallity, the "elements" in the TCM are more like "rhythms". Like the seasons (wood = spring, fire = summer, metal = fall, winter = water, indian summer = earth). We go through most of them.

    There are primary ones depending on where we are at in our lives.

    You can notice also by how someone walks...

    flowing like = water
    rigid, robot like = metal
    jumpy = fire

    etc.

    think of the element and think of people that are very much represented by the element and that drill will help you identify the subtler ones.

    More later if interested. This is explained in Donna Eden's book "Energy Medicine".

    Enjoy!

    Juan M. Mercado

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    No, I don't think there is a spiritual side to Kenpo. There is a spiritual side to some Kenpoists, but not to the art.

    There is an intimacy to Kenpo. We hit people and hurt people. We practice hitting each other. We lunge for their private areas. We practice acts that could kill.

    That intimacy prompts some to look to a spiritual side of them. Other folks are such so they see a spiritual side in everything they do.

    I'm a telecommunications engineer by trade. I'm one of many people that help keep the telephone system up and running. In some ways, it's engineering grunt work. There's nothing spiritual about calculating which countries use a segmented address message to send digits.

    A person may bring spirituality to telecom engineering, based on how they feel about hard work, challenges, or even the ability to have 911 there when someone in distress needs it. But there is no spirituality to the engineering itself.

    Likewise I don't really see a spiritual side to Kenpo. Spirituality is in the individual, and what they make of it.

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    No, I don't think there is a spiritual side to Kenpo. There is a spiritual side to some Kenpoists, but not to the art.
    I agree, and this is also true in the case of the earlier post mentioning scientists such as the renowned Dr. William Tiller. The fact that Dr. Tiller has advanced science and received great recognition, does not make his spiritual beliefs "fact". They are his own unproven beliefs, (just as we all have our own beliefs) and if considered scientifically are at best "pseudo-science".

    That someone does not agree with Dr. Tiller's ,or others "spiritual" beliefs does not make them have "negative emotional sickness" as was stated also in the earlier post, anymore than anyone who doesn't agree with another person's belief's is suffering from "negative emotional sickness". It ONLY means they do not agree with something that may or may not be true. Interestingly, some people actually believe others who do not agree with them are "evil".

    I agree also that none of this has anything to do with Kenpo.
    Still sweating, still training. Enlightenment is hard work! TANSTAAFL

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    Default Re: Is Kenpo more than physical?

    I'm not sure what one would consider spiritual, but I do know that in my case I've changed drastically over the years since I began studying martial arts and even more so since beginning my Kenpo training.

    Anyone that has known me for more than 10 years will verify these changes.

    I've learned to be patient and more tolerent of my fellow man. I've become more disciplined and thereby more responsible; both to others and myself. I used to be very negative and am now very positive.

    Is Kenpo more than physical? In my case I'd have to say "yes."
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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