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Thread: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

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    Default what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    As I was reading some of the answers to the thread "Fighting a grappler/boxer" I thought of another question. (I have to admit I love the ear removal tech’ ROFL)

    But what would it really take to get you personally to use what you teach/study?

    I’ll throw out some what if situations, I know a lot of people hate what if questions but these are a little different.

    What if you were driving on a busy highway and this happens all the time. But you get cut off and then say a few choice words to this person. Next thing you know this person is following you and wants you to pull over. You resist the urge to pull over well maybe not but in this case you did. They followed you to your destination. Now this person is standing outside your window taunting you to open your car door. Would this be enough to make you get out and open a can?

    Or the guy that makes a comment about your wife/GF while standing in line at the movie theater?

    Just using some of these as examples, I see a lot of threads that talk about once the fight is on or if you were jumped and you have no choice to make. These are situations that you still have a choice to make although your ego may make that choice very difficult you do still have a choice. So what would it take to make you open a can?
    A black belt covers 2" of your butt. Covering the rest is soley up to you

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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    As a last resort man...It sounds corny but if you fight you have already lost! We live in a litigious society so even if you are fortunate enough to survive and/or prevail in the conflict, you can easily get sued. Or you can flee from the incident, another unsavory option.

    Last resort for me- I am undefeated so far! 0-0
    The above is just my opinion.

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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Let me preface my reply by saying that I do not condone violence or what would be considered "bad behavior." I also believe that as martial artist we have a responsibility to not instigate conflict.

    1) In regards to your first scenario. If I believed someone were following me and meant to do me harm I would call 911 and let the dispatcher know. As much for their protection as mine. Forget the can of whupass, I carry a S&W .45 under the seat of my pick up.
    Either the police would show up along my route and deal with them/us, or hopefully they would be waiting at my destination to difuse the situation. If I arrived at my destination and the police were not there, then I would deal with the situation depending on the actions of the person following me. I would make sure I exited my vehicle first, but not approach theirs. I would attempt to put something between me and them (like my truck) and observe how the occupants of the other vehicle were behaving.

    **I actually had a psycho in a Trans Am fishtail and position their vehicle longways across a road on my way to class one night. From what I could gather, he was already angry from fighting with his girlfriend and had made up his mind that I had wronged him on the road somehow (I'm not sure what it was I was supposed to have done, it's still a mystery). Anyway, as I got out of my truck he rolled his window down and tried to say something, but I couldn't decipher it because his girlfriend was yelling at him still. The way the road was constructed, I could not have gone around as there was a steep incline on one side and a steep decline on the other. Nothing happened though, he abruptly rolled his window up and took off up the road leaving me standing there in my gi pants and flip flops. LOL

    2) The way one would react to the second scenario would depend on ones principles. I know this much, if you're a Southern boy and you don't knock his teeth out then your mama will skin you alive if she finds out! ROFL
    A buddy-cop of mine told me a story about a fella doing just that. Some guy made a lude comment about his wife when they were going into a store and lost some teeth over it. The cops arrested Mr. Toothless though. LOL. He told me the guy was amazed because he was the one missing teeth. My buddy told him, that may be but he was the one that instigated the fight by shooting off his mouth. Man, I love this state sometimes. Reminds me of an old Irish saying, "It's often a man's mouth broke his nose."
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe View Post
    As a last resort man...It sounds corny but if you fight you have already lost! We live in a litigious society so even if you are fortunate enough to survive and/or prevail in the conflict, you can easily get sued. Or you can flee from the incident, another unsavory option.

    Last resort for me- I am undefeated so far! 0-0

    I don’t think that sounds corny at all, I have taken the high road on a few occasions, well ok since the age of 22 and I joined the Military that is. Before that all bets were off. But I am proud to say I chose the high road more than a few times. The hardest being against my wife’s ex husband. I know in my heart I did the right thing but my mind still wonders if I should have just well you know.

    So in asking this question I hope I don’t come off as saying that you should fight at the drop of a hat. But I will be the first to admit it was hard to walk away on more than one occasion partly due to ego, and partly due to consequences as stated in the post above.
    A black belt covers 2" of your butt. Covering the rest is soley up to you

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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Quote Originally Posted by hemi View Post
    I don’t think that sounds corny at all, I have taken the high road on a few occasions, well ok since the age of 22 and I joined the Military that is. Before that all bets were off. But I am proud to say I chose the high road more than a few times. The hardest being against my wife’s ex husband. I know in my heart I did the right thing but my mind still wonders if I should have just well you know.

    So in asking this question I hope I don’t come off as saying that you should fight at the drop of a hat. But I will be the first to admit it was hard to walk away on more than one occasion partly due to ego, and partly due to consequences as stated in the post above.
    It gets easier to walk away the more you realize what you could actually do to the poor schmuck. I've heard it refered to as "The Fear."
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    [quote=hemi;40463]
    Or the guy that makes a comment about your wife/GF while standing in line at the movie theater?

    quote]


    LOL. My wife would open the can while I watched.

    Myself......it takes a lot these days. Had a guy go off on me at the gas station a few months ago. I just stood there and laughed at him. Literally. Totally relaxed but aware. It was really strange. I felt so at peace. In the past my adrenalin would have just shot up and it would have probably escalated really quick.

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    Talking Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    It gets easier to walk away the more you realize what you could actually do to the poor schmuck. I've heard it refered to as "The Fear."
    Celtic Crippler If you want to fight you will find a way to. move to the side of the street that the guy that looks like a bad ass is walking down. Or get out of the car (that is the way of the tiger). That was me a year or so ago, I just put my self in the way of dumb people. Sifu told me that it is because I have to prove something to myself. It will not go way in the dojo,you work with the people all the time you know them it has to be out on the street. You have to hit a point in your self when a man steps up to you look in to his eyes and see that all that you have been training for is this one moment the fight and the you look deeper what you see is FEAR not him fearing you, but what you can do to him....(That is the way of the Dragon)
    "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else, YOU are the one who gets burned."
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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Quote Originally Posted by hemi View Post
    What if you were driving on a busy highway and you get cut off and then say a few choice words to this person. Next thing you know this person is following you and wants you to pull over. They followed you to your destination. Now this person is standing outside your window taunting you to open your car door. Would this be enough to make you get out and open a can?
    Been there. But, first off, I do not go "to my destination" in these cases. The less he knows about me, the better- especiall where I live/work/hang out. Second, if it becomes necessary to pull over, I pick the place, position my vehicle, leave it running and the door open, and get out. I know, that isn't what you were told in class. But I want options- get back in and boogy, move to take him on foot, leave on foot, or use my weapon (did I mention I'm armed if I get out?). And I want a clear view of him, what he's doing, holding, trying to hide, how he's acting.

    Best is to drive to a public place, especially a place that has cops, security, or some other "authority figures". Then get out where there are witnesses and hopefully backup.

    As to what it would take, I've had good results either talking people down or letting them talk themselves out. But part of that is I don't bluff. There is a definate trigger point where I will act. Usually, the kinds of people who act like this don't really want a fight, they just want to act out their aggressions and blow off steam. But I'm not willing to bet my life on this being the case. I act when they attack, show signs that attack is immenant, or try to move to a place of significant advantage.

    Really, just common sense.

    Dan C
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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Ask yourself the question "am I really willing to hurt this person?". Everything you've learned (not just the physical) has to be the background to this question. If the answer is "no", then you have to extract yourself from the situation, no matter what it may do to your ego. If the answer is "yes", then he should be hurt and the confrontation be done oh, about the time you finish answering the question. One thing that helps saying "no" that much easier is the thought that there could be legal liability, depending on your level of training. Especially if your response is excessive.

    My standards for a "yes" are quite high. When I read posts from people crowing about how this move, or that move took out a guy who mouthed off, or took a swing at them at the bar, I just shake my head. I've had a lot of years dealing with people in crisis, knowing that I'm the one there to bring calm to the situation. MA training has just enhanced that ability, especially when I'm po'ed. IMHO, a true martial artist who allows himself/herself to get in a fight where serious injury, or death is not a risk is doing themselves and ma in general a disservice.

    The guy on the freeway gets a heavy dose of 911-fu. If I'm outside of the vehicle at my destination and he comes up to me and makes a move, he gets hurt. The guy making the comment gets ignored. If he persists, he gets a look, if he decides to make it a physical confrontation, even after my hands go up and I say "I don't want to do this", then he gets hurt just enough to make sure he gets the point that he chose the wrong time and place.

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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    I do not think there is a right or wrong answer here. Until the situation arises there is no telling. Every situation is unique.
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Wow so many good responses; I used the “what if” questions based on situations I have found myself in. Not so much to see if I did the right thing as this really was intended to steer away from me. I just wanted to see what it would take for some of you to enter a confrontation. I’m sure that changes with Age, skill of your training, maturity, and the mood you happen to be in.

    But I have to say Great responses The Dan, Jdinca, and CC if we had a rep system I’d be adding points.
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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Quote Originally Posted by SPK,Grasshopper View Post
    Celtic Crippler If you want to fight you will find a way to. move to the side of the street that the guy that looks like a bad ass is walking down. Or get out of the car (that is the way of the tiger). That was me a year or so ago, I just put my self in the way of dumb people. Sifu told me that it is because I have to prove something to myself. It will not go way in the dojo,you work with the people all the time you know them it has to be out on the street. You have to hit a point in your self when a man steps up to you look in to his eyes and see that all that you have been training for is this one moment the fight and the you look deeper what you see is FEAR not him fearing you, but what you can do to him....(That is the way of the Dragon)
    Exactly. "The Fear" is knowing what you're capable of. You fear what you're able to do to another person. Once you realize that, you have nothing to prove to yourself so it's no longer an issue. Reaching that level of control and conscience is also a sign of maturity and personal responsibility. The only time you'd need or use your skill and training is in a life or death situation... which is what self defense is for in the first place!
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Wow another good question, and good answers to boot. I'll do my best to keep up the quality of response here...

    As JD so eloquently stated...the guy on the freeway definitely gets a taste of my "911-fu". If that fails (cops don't show, or somehow I get blocked from driving away) then the response depends on many things. To say "if A happened, then I'd do B" would be silly, because there are so many uncontrollable and unpredictable things that can (and probably will) pop up. Although if my wife were with me and I felt that her life was in any danger, the decisions would certainly be made easier.

    As for the smart-mouth guy...I've always been able to defuse the situation with words somehow. But as above, if it really came down to it I don't know what I would do. It depends on how threatening the guy was, where we were, etc.(ok sorry, total cop-out answer)

    OK so having said that, I have been in a situation where I had to use martial arts to protect myself. Long story, but back in my college days my roommate and I were attacked by a couple of guys (one had a lead pipe, the other a large hammer). Guy with the hammer came after me, I kicked him and then proceeded to go into a foul-mouthed tirade that would do a sailor proud. You know, the typical "DON'T YOU *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* EVER *bleep* COME NEAR ME OR I'LL *bleep* *bleep* YOU *bleep* *bleep*" or words to that general effect. We were right across the street from my fraternity house, and right at that point about 20 of my fraternity brothers arrived, disarmed them, and that was that. My hands were shaking the rest of the night.
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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Quote Originally Posted by hemi View Post
    What if you were driving on a busy highway and this happens all the time. But you get cut off and then say a few choice words to this person. Next thing you know this person is following you and wants you to pull over. You resist the urge to pull over well maybe not but in this case you did. They followed you to your destination. Now this person is standing outside your window taunting you to open your car door. Would this be enough to make you get out and open a can?
    This happened to me twice...

    The first time this happened my girlfriend and I had gotten stuck behind a truck at a traffic light. When I didn't get out the guy broke the driver-side window out with a tire iron. I tied his arm up in the shoulder strap of my seat belt and drove through two intersections with him danggling there... A police officer saw it... I stopped... the jerk ran back to his car (that his friend was now driving)... a chase insued... and the police arrested him for assualt with a deadly weapon.

    The second time I got out of the car (having learned from the previous experience that staying in the car can be a bad thing if the guy brings you to a forced stop). This guy lost a few teeth and I got a nasty infection in my elbow after pulling them out of my arm (Mace of Agression works!).

    Quote Originally Posted by hemi View Post
    Or the guy that makes a comment about your wife/GF while standing in line at the movie theater?
    I'll smile at him and move along... Unless he persues the issue more aggressively.

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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Quote Originally Posted by tiktok86 View Post
    Although if my wife were with me and I felt that her life was in any danger, the decisions would certainly be made easier.
    Umm, don't you think in that situation it would be better to let her take care of it?

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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Touche.




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    Thumbs up Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Quote Originally Posted by SPK,Grasshopper View Post
    Celtic Crippler If you want to fight you will find a way to. move to the side of the street that the guy that looks like a bad ass is walking down. Or get out of the car (that is the way of the tiger). That was me a year or so ago, I just put my self in the way of dumb people. Sifu told me that it is because I have to prove something to myself. It will not go way in the dojo,you work with the people all the time you know them it has to be out on the street. You have to hit a point in your self when a man steps up to you look in to his eyes and see that all that you have been training for is this one moment the fight and the you look deeper what you see is FEAR not him fearing you, but what you can do to him....(That is the way of the Dragon)
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    Cool Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Seriously....it requires true threat of actual physical harm, to myself or someone else, unable to properly defend themselves. Early on, the urge to prove myself as these types of scenarios arose, was present. As time and experience grew, the need to prove my ability to neutralize every dumbass that crossed my path diminished, with the self awareness, that I could in fact accomplish this feat. So, often times, the battle is waged, albeit briefly in my mind's eye, the results found satisfactory and the need to establish the actual physical victory disolves.

    This being said, just last night, a couple of Rangers embibed a bit heavily on spirits, and decided to start taking on all comers at my club. Most of the folk wanted no part of it, but were rapidly being drawn into it regardless. There was no thought of personal victories, just a need to make the violence end as rapidly as possible. Unconcious Rangers are not very intimidating. (...not to mention much easier to cuff and haul away)
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    Default Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    *....sniffle-sniffle...*

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    The story of "Growing up Grasshopper"

    In the beginning SPK Grasshopper came to SifuDangeRuss for knowledge of martial arts.
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    They sparred daily
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    But most importantly, SifuDangeRuss challenged Grasshopper to think!

    Finally, one day SPK Grasshopper had an epiphany!
    And SifuDangeRuss was soooooo proud he wept.
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    Thumbs up Re: what would it take to get you to use what you teach/study?

    ...on another creative example of the Art of Fighting, without fighting occurred within the last week. (Seems the holiday season brings out the violent behavior in those prone to it) I arrived at my club, and noted a particularly large native american, who was obviously intoxicated. I immediately cut him off. He then proceeded to purposefully bump into other patrons and stare them down, daring a confrontation. A good friend of mine, head of a local biker organization and fellow martial artist was watching the tension build. He told me that he had my back, should anything happen. I smiled and pointed out the other security staff who were already watching the would-be troublemaker. Our club has one entrance after 9pm, and 2 other exits clearly marked as Emergency Exit Only. They have Roach Motel type mechanisms, whereby you can go out, but cannot get back in once closed. As the angy, intoxicated individual proceeded to make everyone in the place nervous, I waited patiently for him to stumble near one of the one way doors. When he did, I tapped him on the shoulder and asked him his name? He blinked and responded. I told him, that someone was just asking for him outside. I opened the rear door and he stepped over the threshold to see who was looking for him? I gave him a subtle nudge and pulled the door closed behind him. Conflict averted. Everyone in the bar, chuckled and sighed in relief at not having to physically try to stop the troublemaker. He pounded on the door for several minutes, before circling the building and trying to re-enter through the front. I had already informed the doorman not to let him in, as he was obviously intoxicated. He railed out front for a while and produced a bottle, which he threatened anyone who came within spitting distance. The police were called and he was just as beligerant with them. They cuffed him, and did something I'd never seen police do, the gagged and bagged him, as he wouldn't stop trying to spit and bite them.
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