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Thread: Your rhythm when doing forms.

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    Default Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Iím having another duh moment this time itís in doing forms. When doing forms if you have a slow rhythm then the form can tend to look monotone and boring to watch. But if your rhythm is too fast you get sloppy and may leave out or not do moves correctly. So how do you work on a rhythm that looks good but still allows you to correctly do every move and not get to monotone or so fast that you look sloppy in your movements?

    I also notice when I work forms on my own I tend to stay at a steady rhythm. But in class especially during a belt test, I tend to start on my own pace but then speed up as I near the end or if I fall too far behind everyone else. What other than just time in class doing the forms will help to overcome this bad habit?
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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Someone from this board posted a video of theirself doing forms awhile back. I thought I heard a metronome in the background. I haven't tried it yet, but I think doing forms over a steady pulse like that would really help.
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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Just as in executing a technique, it is good to stagger your rhythm. Some places it pays to move fast, some it pays to hesitate a little. In techniques this is necessary sometimes in order to give your opponent time to react to the previous strike or maneuver prior to the follow up.
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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    I agree with CC. When doing forms, I try to visualize an attacker, and what his reaction will be. My next strike will be timed accordingly. Remember, we have a purpose in doing forms. One of those purposes is to get practice "flowing" into a new technique. So try to imagine the rhythm of each individual technique, and the sum will be the rhythm of the form in its "ideal phase."
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    Smile Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    The issues is that you are worried about what it looks like. Don't concern yourself with how it looks. Worry about doing the techniques in as realisistic manner as possible. Execute every block as if someone is trying to take your head off. Throw every strike, as if you are trying to take them out permanently. Focus on the integrity of your stances and proper body allignment. If you do this? It WILL automaticaly look good. The appearence is just a happy byproduct of good technique.
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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Just as in executing a technique, it is good to stagger your rhythm. Some places it pays to move fast, some it pays to hesitate a little. In techniques this is necessary sometimes in order to give your opponent time to react to the previous strike or maneuver prior to the follow up.
    I agree with what you say here. When I do my forms I match my tempo with the technique used in the form. As for the comment hemi made about changing his speed to catch up when doing forms in a group I tend to do the opposite. If I am doing my form with others in the class i tend to slow myself down and ignore what the others are doing and I fvind I am able to better concentrate on my own movements.

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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    I am too late, Thesensei, Dang-R-uss and CC hit it already...

    Don't any of you guys work? LOL

    EVERY time you do the form, do it as if it were the first, last, and only thing you will ever do in your life! Practice small sections until your conditioning is satisfactory...Even folks in great shape should be exhausted after completing a "long" form (IMHO). Again I do not know much about the EPAK or Tracy forms other than seeing them---

    One of the Kara-Ho forms has almost 200 movements in it so I do 1 movement a hour but I practice a LOT of hours! LOL

    Cheers!
    The above is just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe View Post
    I am too late, Thesensei, Dang-R-uss and CC hit it already...

    Don't any of you guys work? LOL
    I probably should seeing as I do most of my posting from "work." LOL Man, I'm getting behind too!
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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Well, if you are doing forms that I know I would suggest that you look at the transitional points between each technique. Each point, transition if you will, is a moment in time that can be exploited for it's drama. This is what rythym is, the difference in timming that tells the viewer that you are finished with the technique, and you are going into another. I don't think fast or slow is a determining factor. Those pregnant pauses between the techniques add to the viewability of the form.

    Clark

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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    I agree with what you say here. When I do my forms I match my tempo with the technique used in the form. As for the comment hemi made about changing his speed to catch up when doing forms in a group I tend to do the opposite. If I am doing my form with others in the class i tend to slow myself down and ignore what the others are doing and I fvind I am able to better concentrate on my own movements.
    That’s something I have had trouble with if I slow down then I catch a glimpse of everyone else in class at a different point in the form then that really messes with my head. So I tend to try and keep up the same pace as the class.

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    The issues is that you are worried about what it looks like. Don't concern yourself with how it looks. Worry about doing the techniques in as realisistic manner as possible. Execute every block as if someone is trying to take your head off. Throw every strike, as if you are trying to take them out permanently. Focus on the integrity of your stances and proper body allignment. If you do this? It WILL automaticaly look good. The appearence is just a happy byproduct of good technique.
    Thanks I will try and spend less time worried about how the form looks and make sure that I am doing it right.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe View Post
    I am too late, Thesensei, Dang-R-uss and CC hit it already...

    Don't any of you guys work? LOL

    One of the Kara-Ho forms has almost 200 movements in it so I do 1 movement a hour but I practice a LOT of hours! LOL

    Cheers!
    Yes I work but I am very lucky I can pop in and out all day while at work and on my lunch hour.

    200 moves good god and I was worried about learning long 2 in our system

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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    I try to alternate tempo's with different sections of the forms. Kind of a take of the "broken rhythm" thing.

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    kenpoteacher Guest

    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Quote Originally Posted by crane557 View Post
    I try to alternate tempo's with different sections of the forms. Kind of a take of the "broken rhythm" thing.
    Good point wise bird! Now, try putting 2 or more (don't go beyond 4 for SF3) techniques into a mini group within the form. You will find the signature of YOUR form at that point. A form can be repeated, but a signature is not forgotten.

    Clark

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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Just look at the name of the form, that should help you with your rhythem. But, sometime's in class I have the students come up one at a time to lead the class thru there forms and each one does it at a different rhythm and all the student have stay together. A little trick to disguise repetition.

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    Lightbulb Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Hemi. Fight that is all I can give you just FIGHT..
    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    The issues is that you are worried about what it looks like. Don't concern yourself with how it looks. Worry about doing the techniques in as realisistic manner as possible. Execute every block as if someone is trying to take your head off. Throw every strike, as if you are trying to take them out permanently. Focus on the integrity of your stances and proper body allignment. If you do this? It WILL automaticaly look good. The appearence is just a happy byproduct of good technique.
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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenpoteacher View Post
    Good point wise bird! Now, try putting 2 or more (don't go beyond 4 for SF3) techniques into a mini group within the form. You will find the signature of YOUR form at that point. A form can be repeated, but a signature is not forgotten.

    Clark
    Thanks!

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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    no problem.

    Clark

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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Try practicing your katas to music. Try different song.

    It breaks up the timing. It's easy to get stuck doing the same rhythm for katas (I am certainly guilty of that), but doing it to music and break things up for you.

    It also lets you know how well you know the kata because you have to keep to the music and move faster than you might otherwise move. You can do it single-time or double-time or pick an alternative beat.

    I think if you always do every technique in the kata like you would if someone were attacking you, you're just as likely to get caught up doing the exact same rhythm.

    I agree with Jason that there are different ways to practice katas. And each has merit.

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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Hemi, Do you work the "bunkai" of the form? The application of the technique on a live uke?

    I know I fell from a different branch than y'all but you folks DO USE BUNKAI, YES?

    I am all for tempo and adding music for a beginner...Let's them find their feet and helps them to actually remember the movements like verses of a song- At your level however you should not need a "tempo" or music to help you along...Do the form as if you are fighting for your life- After all, is there any other way?

    If you want a form that "look's good", then I am a bit concerned.

    Great topic and I apologize if I am a bit harsh but one of the key reasons (IMHO) that so many folks say, "kata is silly, stupid or useless" is because they have done or seen a kata done with tempo and music. My instructor used to say, "do the movements like an angry tiger fighting his way down a mountain."

    Exception: If you are doing the form to a Zeppelin song that is okay.
    The above is just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Your rhythm when doing forms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe View Post
    Hemi, Do you work the "bunkai" of the form? The application of the technique on a live uke?

    I know I fell from a different branch than y'all but you folks DO USE BUNKAI, YES?

    I am all for tempo and adding music for a beginner...Let's them find their feet and helps them to actually remember the movements like verses of a song- At your level however you should not need a "tempo" or music to help you along...Do the form as if you are fighting for your life- After all, is there any other way?

    If you want a form that "look's good", then I am a bit concerned.

    Great topic and I apologize if I am a bit harsh but one of the key reasons (IMHO) that so many folks say, "kata is silly, stupid or useless" is because they have done or seen a kata done with tempo and music. My instructor used to say, "do the movements like an angry tiger fighting his way down a mountain."

    Exception: If you are doing the form to a Zeppelin song that is okay.
    Well to be honest we donít or should I say havenít yet worked the forms on live people. But are class is very small right now most times three or four of us students and my instructorís son and wife. Itís hard to have 10 attackers with just a few people. At least I am guessing thatís why we work them in the air.

    But thinking about what you said maybe that would help a lot in building a better rhythm if I were actually reacting to an attack coming in vs. a simulated attack.

    As for wanting a form that looks good, itís not so much that I want a form that looks good. I just want to move the way Iíve seen higher ranking people move while doing forms. I understand most of the way these people can move while doing the form came from tons of practice. But I canít help but think a small part of that ability comes from a set rhythm. A rhythm one can use to gauge the speed they are able to move flashy while maintaining the integrity of the form and maintaining proper structure of each move.

    I have to admit I watch tons of clips of others doing forms. Most of these forms I havenít learned yet myself, so I am no way able to judge if these forms are being done correctly or not. But I have noticed at least in my opinion some people looked very rushed while others are more relaxed. I am looking to find that balance of moving fast, but maintain the form as it should be done. Without going so fast that if it were a real fight, I would be throwing the next attack or block even before my attacker moved to attack or react. If that makes any sense,
    But I do value your opinions that why I ask so many questions here.

    Oh and I will try Stairway to Heaven next time i work my forms
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