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Thread: A question about change

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    Default A question about change

    I was reading Mr. Broads thread about implementing change, that reminded me of a conversation I had with my instructor recently. Just wanted to see how everyone here feels about this. If you were a student and your instructor/school decided to switch from the Tracy’s system to EPAK would that be a severe enough change to make you find another school?

    Would your current rank in that system or at that school be a big deciding factor? Or would you just roll with the punches and keep on keeping on.

    I placed this is the general martial arts because I didn’t think it would be fare to ask just those in the Tracy’s system and I am just using that switch as an example. What would be the limit of change you as a student in any style of Kenpo would accept before you would actively look at changing schools/instructors?
    A black belt covers 2" of your butt. Covering the rest is soley up to you

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    Default Re: A question about change

    Rank is irrelevent; knowledge is what's important. I've sacrificed my "rank" before when switching to another school or style. Nobody can take what you know away from you. Your rank won't save your butt, but your knowledge of self defense may.
    That being said, it would depend. I would have to be exposed to the new curriculum, and if I thought it would help me to improve somehow then I would stick around. If not...then I would search out something that would.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: A question about change

    I am specifically training in EPAK so if my instructor made a drastic change to the system then I would search for another EPAK teacher. I am doing some cross training to complement my EPAK (specifically Arnis) but EPAK is still my primary art.

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    Default Re: A question about change

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Rank is irrelevent; knowledge is what's important. I've sacrificed my "rank" before when switching to another school or style. Nobody can take what you know away from you. Your rank won't save your butt, but your knowledge of self defense may.
    That being said, it would depend. I would have to be exposed to the new curriculum, and if I thought it would help me to improve somehow then I would stick around. If not...then I would search out something that would.
    Here, Here! I echo that. Like you I left styles and started over again via the "belt system". It's just that, a belt system. I think that every art / style stays with you and you just add to your dictionary of knowledge. There are many people that care about if thier rank will transfer and such, but I like to think that it should be looked at as a challenge to the student to adapt and gain more knowledge. I always enjoy seeing where things from other arts studied connect into Kenpo and vice versa.
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: A question about change

    I would have to just trust my instructor and go with him.

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    Default Re: A question about change

    I prefer to look at it as growing and progressing along my journey instead of "starting over." I think that perspective has a negative connotation. Like I said, you can't take away what you already know! So you're not actually "starting over", you're just doing something different and/or new and hopefully it will add to what you ALREADY know!
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: A question about change

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    I am doing some cross training to complement my EPAK (specifically Arnis) but EPAK is still my primary art.
    Funny how those seem to go nicely together. I'm lucky to have a Sifu who is well versed in both and teaches both in my training.

    As far as changing schools because your current school decided to change circulum. I'm at the point in my young martial arts training that I would trust it would be a change for the better and flow with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Rank is irrelevent; knowledge is what's important.
    Amen.

    I 100% agree with that and was reminded of that fact not too long ago. When I first started training almost a year and a half ago, there was a guy who was already an orange belt who was very athletic and an excellent sparrer. A few months down the road, his life changed and left for a time. He came back a couple months ago for some sparring and even though I didn't have any lapses in my training and was now a higher rank than him, he still kicked my butt repeatedly and decisively. So it taught me quickly that rank doesn't matter!

    As Mr. Miagi would say, "Trust quality of Karate, not quantity."
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    Default Re: A question about change

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarnyk View Post
    As Mr. Miagi would say, "Trust quality of Karate, not quantity."
    That is so true on so many different levels.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: A question about change

    I would only take that time to change if I did not respect the instructor or what I was learning. I would have to ask the reasons/justification for the change and would hear him/her out on it.

    It could be a learning experience. I suppose that if I was happy with the school, I would stick it out for a few months and see if the change in style fit me and my body type.

    I also cross-train in Tai-Chi, which I think complements my kenpo a lot, but when I was kenpoless, I certainly felt a void.

    I'm more committed to what the training will do for my fitness and well-roundedness and not to a particular style. It would also be very difficult for me to find another American Kenpo school.
    "Let the wookie win."

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    Default Re: A question about change

    How does an instructor go from teaching one system to another, without going thru the training first? I mean, tracys and epak have certain similarities, but they are not the same and it would take time to learn the other art, and time to develop the skills to become an instructor. That switch couldn't just suddenly happen.

    I suppose if the teacher had trained both arts in the past and reached instructor level in both, but only taught one, that could answer the question. But then, why was he teaching the one and not the other from the beginning?

    Anyway, I guess it depends on how much you trust and respect the instructor. If he is great, then it doesn't really matter what art he is teaching. But, I have certainly heard of instructors switching or changing the art and losing students who feel the change was not for the better (this is where the split between the Tracys and Mr. Parker came from in the first place).
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    Default Re: A question about change

    I agree 100% with the running census about what you know can’t be taken from you.

    I was talking to a friend and fellow student just the other day as we were waiting on the first class to end (pretty much all white belts). As I watched from outside on the street I was somewhat envious of them. They have so much they will learn over the next year if they stick with it. Not that it stops there but that first year was a real WOW factor. I still remember the first time my instructor walked me through delayed sword. I was blown away, moving that way never crossed my mind. And still every class since has to some degree been a wow experience just not as strong as that first year.

    As for the question about change, I didn’t ask in reference to myself. That question stemmed from a personal experience my instructor shared with me.

    Myself even if my instructor decided to change to Redneck Fu, I would stay a loyal student. Might not tell anyone what I studied and I would cross train in Kenpo somewhere but I’d still be a student under my current instructor.
    A black belt covers 2" of your butt. Covering the rest is soley up to you

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    Default Re: A question about change

    Ahh! Redneck Fu, a chance to break out my denim overall gi .

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    Default Re: A question about change

    Quote Originally Posted by crane557 View Post
    Ahh! Redneck Fu, a chance to break out my denim overall gi .
    And that must be where you learn the fine art of noodling!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW5deztw_g0
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    Default Re: A question about change

    I'll chime in with a hearty, "Hear, hear" on the Knowledge vs Rank discourse.

    I try and stress this to my students, to help them understand the incredible value of kenpo instruction, and the fantastic bargain they are getting for their dollar. What we give/get is something that no one can take away. Kenpo is a harsh mistress, but she's faithful and stands by your side. She'll be swift to remind you of neglect, but in the end, she will always be by your side.

    I also stress this when I take in students with previous experience. Don't discard or forget whay you've already learned. Don't change what you know, but add to it. He who dies with the most knowledge wins.

    and Zarny ?

    That's fer the "Noodling" link lol
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    Default Re: A question about change

    Thanks.
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    "Jeet Kune Do: it's just a name; don't fuss over it. There's no such thing as a style if you understand the roots of combat." -Bruce Lee

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    Default Re: A question about change

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarnyk View Post
    And that must be where you learn the fine art of noodling!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW5deztw_g0
    Hey where'd you get the video of cousin Joe? That musta been a while ago, he's still got two teeth.

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    Default Re: A question about change

    Quote Originally Posted by crane557 View Post
    Ahh! Redneck Fu, a chance to break out my denim overall gi .
    You have a set too mine even have the wrangler patch on the back
    A black belt covers 2" of your butt. Covering the rest is soley up to you

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    Default Re: A question about change

    Quote Originally Posted by hemi View Post
    You have a set too mine even have the wrangler patch on the back
    Trade for a set of wooden teeth and a um ah grill offa 59 Chevy Truck?

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    Default Re: A question about change




    Sheesh...I thought I was the only proud owner of a pair of Century Chuck Norris Kickin' Jeans, still ? (Complete with the little Diamond-shaped gusset in the crotch!!!)


    Wanna dual with banjos...
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    Default Re: A question about change

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post


    Wanna dual with banjos...
    Only if we can have Uncle Jed on the jug and granny with her washboard to play along.
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    "Jeet Kune Do: it's just a name; don't fuss over it. There's no such thing as a style if you understand the roots of combat." -Bruce Lee

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