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Thread: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    I think for Nuchucks, yes. The idea would be to put foam around a wooden pair. Mind you, I can't do diddly with those weapons, but I do know that weight counts.

    For other weapons, I don't think it's a problem. I have the absolute coolest training knife. At first glance, it looks like an open switchblade, but it's rounded a dull. It has the weight though and the right feel.

    I hate those big wooden sticks that are supposed to pass for knives. We had those at my other school and they are useless to train with because what REAL knife has anything resembling those dimensions?

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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    We had those at my other school and they are useless to train with because what REAL knife has anything resembling those dimensions?

    --Amy
    As I was reading that I got this mental picture of Crocodile Dun D “You call that a knife, this is a knife” then he pulled out a 12” Bowie


    Oh and thanks for the tip, Armaflex (pipe insulation) around the wood chucks. I never thought about padding the wood in place of using the foam set. --- Thinking to myself Duh!!!
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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2004hemi View Post
    As I was reading that I got this mental picture of Crocodile Dun D “You call that a knife, this is a knife” then he pulled out a 12” Bowie
    LOL! That's too funny.
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    Cool Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2004hemi View Post
    Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training? The reason I ask back when I was 14/15 I was unable to attend martial arts class the schools were to far away. But I had a friend that was good with chucks; he used a set he made out of a sledge handle and rope. Long story short I made myself a set and practiced with them. And yes I paid for mistakes made with 6 stitches in my lip once. But now after not having practiced in a long time I picked up a foam set and I can wip them things around like crazy. But when pick up my wood set I am very awkward with them. I think using the foam set sort of set me back since I am not used to the weight and feel of the wood set.

    Any thoughts?
    I have a buddy, who is unquestionably the most incredible nunchaku stylist on the face of this (or most other planets)...he takes it to levels most of us can't comprehend, prior to ...or after seeing him. When he teaches novices, he uses the hollow core, plastic, faom-wrapped chucks to begin with...however...he fills the cores with silly-putty to give them some mass. These still, will only take you so far, but the initial journey is less traumatic for most beginners. Once you have a fundemental understanding of the dynamics of a flexible weapon, and have gained control of the basic techniques....then you want to graduate to a 'real weapon' as soon as possible. The number of techniques you can really do with the light-weight trainers, is more limited than you might guess, but nonetheless, not a bad way to start.

    As to other weapons? We do occaisionally...(and I emphasize 'occasionally') break out the padded arnis sticks and play..."First blood". The padded sticks allow us to use a fair amount of speed..(as fast as the limitations again of the over-sized padded weapons allow anyway)...and power...while we practice 'De-Fanging' or striking the closest availible target. (Usually hands) If you beat on one another's hands with a live stick, you don't get to train for very long, nor play the piano. So I would say there is a limited usefulness to this instrument.

    This having been said, I will say that I prefer using the real thing whenever possible. It ingrains the respect so neccessary when working with weapons. If you realize when you make a serious error, you may hurt yourself, it breeds better technique. It also makes you aware, that in a weapons fight....no one wins. The biggest problem with padded, or practice weapons is they permit you to be sloppy in your technique with few, if any consequences. *bonk...bonk...bonk....bonk...* They can also give you a false sense of mastery. However, look at it like driving a simulater, before getting behind the wheel.
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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    It has the weight though and the right feel.

    --Amy
    I couldn't agree more. It's important to use something that not only looks like a knife but feels like it too. We use homemade fashioned aluminum blades with wood handles to give you the right dimensions and the feel of the cool metal.
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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    This having been said, I will say that I prefer using the real thing whenever possible. It ingrains the respect so neccessary when working with weapons. If you realize when you make a serious error, you may hurt yourself, it breeds better technique. It also makes you aware, that in a weapons fight....no one wins. The biggest problem with padded, or practice weapons is they permit you to be sloppy in your technique with few, if any consequences. *bonk...bonk...bonk....bonk...* They can also give you a false sense of mastery. However, look at it like driving a simulater, before getting behind the wheel.
    Yes Sir Nothing like a trip to the ER to teach you that lesson.

    Good info and a nice post thanks
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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    Safety weapons are designed to be used when you begin your training with a weapon, or whne learning new maneuvres, after that you progress to the real thing.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    i used regular chucks to train with. mostly my right (dominant) hand.. iv used a foam one for my left hand..

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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    Training in any form is better than none.

    However once comfortable one should move on to continue the learning process. Start with foam ... move to wood, etc.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    I agree. Better to tweek your training, than to not train at all. Besides, ER bills are expensive!
    There is nothing so strong as gentleness, nothing so gentle as real strength.
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    Smile Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate View Post
    Training in any form is better than none.

    However once comfortable one should move on to continue the learning process. Start with foam ... move to wood, etc.
    I'm up to the stage, my weapons have razer-sharp edges and shoot out multidirectional lasers, and random high voltage electrical shocks through the handles, just to keep me honest.

    (but it could be that I just wax nostalgic for the ol' electroshock therapy, too)
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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    I'm up to the stage, my weapons have razer-sharp edges and shoot out multidirectional lasers, and random high voltage electrical shocks through the handles, just to keep me honest.

    (but it could be that I just wax nostalgic for the ol' electroshock therapy, too)
    I personally do my kata around freaking sharks with freaking laser beams attached to their head ... or is it agitated sea bass? I never remember.

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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    ... We do occaisionally...(and I emphasize 'occasionally') break out the padded arnis sticks and play..."First blood". The padded sticks allow us to use a fair amount of speed...and power...while we practice 'De-Fanging' or striking the closest availible target. (Usually hands) If you beat on one another's hands with a live stick, you don't get to train for very long, nor play the piano. So I would say there is a limited usefulness to this instrument.
    Hockey gloves. Don't play bones wid-out-em!

    This having been said, I will say that I prefer using the real thing whenever possible. It ingrains the respect so neccessary when working with weapons. If you realize when you make a serious error, you may hurt yourself, it breeds better technique...The biggest problem with padded, or practice weapons is they permit you to be sloppy in your technique with few, if any consequences.
    I think you've also hit on one reason it feels so awkward to go from padded weapons to the real thing. That sense that you may get hurt tends to be inhibiting. Watch two people fight with padded sticks, then watch the same people go live stick. Whole different aproach! Same with a weapon that may swing around and hit you in the back of the head if you blow it. In both cases, practitioners aren't nearly as aggressive.

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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    We spar with foam escrima sticks. And yes you have to wear some padding with them. Usually we wear helmets and gloves on the hands. Getting hit with them will leave welts and bruises. We also add in striking, kicks, knees, head butts, so a helmet with a facemask is important too.

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    Default Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training? The reason I ask back when I was 14/15 I was unable to attend martial arts class the schools were to far away. But I had a friend that was good with chucks; he used a set he made out of a sledge handle and rope. Long story short I made myself a set and practiced with them. And yes I paid for mistakes made with 6 stitches in my lip once. But now after not having practiced in a long time I picked up a foam set and I can wip them things around like crazy. But when pick up my wood set I am very awkward with them. I think using the foam set sort of set me back since I am not used to the weight and feel of the wood set.

    Any thoughts?
    A black belt covers 2" of your butt. Covering the rest is soley up to you

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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    The Japanese sometimes use a great way to train that is similar to many of the ways that people are talking about here. They could use padded weapons (fukuro-shinai...slats of bamboo wrapped together with a leather bag http://www13.plala.or.jp/Kenjutsu-Shinai/ http://youtube.com/watch?v=iCSP5esSBDk) to practice and then break out the bokuto (http://www.budo-aoi.com/iaito/bokuto/index.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtYLLy3Tp50) to use in the same practice while not issuing out hits. The thing they had to remember is to train with both methods as one allowed the ability to ingrain contact while the other allowed for control, and familiarization with weight, speed, and manuvering.

    Of course gloves couldn't hurt and that plus other inovations led to the creation of the shinai (http://www.toronto-kendo-club.ca/gfx/shinai_parts.jpg) and the evolution of kendo. But as in all things budo related, there is a lot of discussion on how the sport vastly differs from the real thing.

    Many people have made padded weapons into an art form ( as in trying to maintain weapon viability while offering protection).

    http://www.smakstiks.com/

    http://www.actionflex.com/indexfl.html

    while others eschew padding after a while (that after a while thing is important, they didn't start as fourteen year olds in the garage whacking each other with bokuto) and playing as cose as it gets....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SelmewLmxCs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVg1LMET46c

    The Filipino fighting systems are great for training much like the Japanese. They train constantly with the real thing and then sometimes pad there weapons or pad themselves (http://www.iisports.com/assets/image...PS4013A-H0.jpg)

    One thing to remember though while talking about flexible weapons is to remember to practice actually hitting something wth them. Otherwise the results could be disastrous.

    Thanks for the minute...
    regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    ...I enjoyed beating the poo outta people with foam equipment...I think al it deterred was my maturity level.

    Bob ad I have lots of bruises from each other. Each one is a special memory...ad all from foam sticks...
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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    I know from training with a bokken, getting hit hurts.....but you can only do so much with a wooden sword.
    I am of the mindset though that if you use something that isn't going to have consequences, you will develop bad habits from the start that will be hard to undo once training with the real McCoy.

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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    When talking about nuchaku... and training with an un-padded weapon... I'm reminded of the scene in Sidekicks where Uncle Lee hands young Barry a set of chucks and states, "Practice with them for one hour everyday. If you make a mistake... they will sting you!"

    How right he was!

    Although I merely dabble with the chucks... I can say that, personaly, I've learned more about what NOT to do... than what to do... simply by using plain wooden chucks (especially octoginals as they have sharp edges)...

    As Prof. Remy A. Presas was fond of saying... "First, go slow! Until you know how to do!"

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    Default Re: Does training with foam/padded weapons hurt your training?

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    I'm up to the stage, my weapons have razer-sharp edges and shoot out multidirectional lasers, and random high voltage electrical shocks through the handles, just to keep me honest.

    (but it could be that I just wax nostalgic for the ol' electroshock therapy, too)
    Dude, your shocknife is broken if its doing that

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