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Thread: What do you know about "Chi"?

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    Default What do you know about "Chi"?

    What do you all know about Chi or Ki?
    Do you all believe the concept is real or a Hollywood hoax?
    What do you do to develop Chi in your forms and strikes?

    I have an experience to relate to the forum that I will contribute later after I have had the chance to get a sampling of opinion from the group.

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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    I believe it is real, having both experienced it, and read the (translated) Chinese research.

    There were some intense discussions on MT about it:
    The Existence of Chi
    Debate on the existence of Chi
    Does your art involve Ki?
    For ANY and ALL KenpoTalk issues, please use theContact Us link here or at page bottom right. Do NOT PM me for site support.

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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    I believe in Chi. Of course.

    It's third chakra energy. The third chakra is around the solar plexis and is the power center. That's chi.

    Interestingly enough, it's also the fear center.

    There's nothing more energizing than fear.

    If you can have control over your third chakra energy, you can control your chi and your power.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    I'd bet that Amy would be the one to ask for further info about this, but I also believe in "Chi' (aka: Qi and/or Ki.......Sam Ting)...and that in the ways of Yoga it's known as "Prana". It's a very interesting study. I'm studying oriental massage therapy (Shiatsu & Tui-Na) and it plays a pivotal role; as well as in my study and application of Kyushojitsu.

    ...another person to ask on this subject would be Doc Chapel!! Give him a try...

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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    If you want to use your chi, one way is to use a grounding cord.

    Martial Artists tend to ground from the third chakra. First or third, either one works.

    If you can imagine your third chakra as looking like a camera lens, practice imagining it opening and closing.

    The more open it is, the more power you are running. It's not good to keep it open all the time, but openiing it when you need it is very useful.

    To ground the energy, imagine a line attaching to your third chakra, and dropping down to the center of the planet. Allow anything that's not you to drop down that cord and go back to its origin.

    This will keep the energy flowing how you want it to.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    Amy, I have a question for you.
    When I was young one of my instructors taught me to ground with the 1st 3 Chakra....to sense it as though it were a thermometer, the mercury rising through the center of my being...
    I've always been 'fond' (I guess that sentiment could be used here for this, it's closest) of this metaphor and method and it's always served me well. I don't believe that my instructor was well versed in Yoga, but was/is a fine martial artist; are you familiar with this method? Does it make sense?

    Just wondering what you'll say in light of your education and experience.
    Thank you


    Your Brother
    John

    PS: Though he may not be well versed in Yogic theory or anything, he did later tell me that I could even, after many years of practice, imagine it more like lava in a volcano.....and that it would travel all the way out the crown of my head and "erupt"....
    interesting...
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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    I have a slightly different take on "Chi" that's more closely related to the way SGM Parker addresses it in the "Infinite Insights" series.

    I think "Chi" is the power you recieve from optimum synchronization of all aspects of your being. The physical, mental, and spiritiual aspects are all aligned like perfectly timed cogs working together in a well oiled machine.

    (Spiritual) When you can remain relaxed through proper breathing and a disciplined mind, you can bring your consious and subconsious mind in synch allowing for more effecient movement. This results from hours of practice, repetition of techniques, and mental focus while training so that your reactions become ingrained in your 'muscle memory' and are spontaneous in nature. I think it also ties into the mental aspect by being able to face stress without fear or anger.

    (Mental) Knowing the principles and concepts behind the maneuvers and techniques allows for fluid transitions with everchanging variables in conflict; as long as one knows how to apply them. Visualization is a tool used by many atheletes to improve performance. So, if you can "see" yourself doing a technique "in your head" against an opponent then you can become more proficient in executing it in the "real world." Another characteristic of this aspect is "discipline." Being able to overcome whims or stronger desires that interfere with your training will of course go a long way in how proficient you become in the art.

    (Physical) Execution of proper body mechanics can be the difference between a maneuver succeeding or failing. You also have to know what target to apply a weapon to in order to get the best results for your effort. A finger thrust to the chest would not be as effective as one to the eyes.

    You could easily write an extensive research paper on each aspect. I believe that when all 3 aspects are present and in synch then that's where "chi" comes from. For example: After a long discussion with a student on this very subject, I chose a simple reverse punch to demonstrate my points. The student and I discussed the mechanics of the punch, proper breathing with exhalation on execution, and mentally focusing on the target which was a heavy bag. I had him close his eyes and talk me through the technique complete with the mechanics of what he was going to do forcing him to visualize striking the heavy bag with a reverse punch. Finally, he was focused and ready to strike the bag. When he did it flew up and the chain came off the hook and the bag went sailing into the nearby wall. That wasn't the funny part. The funny part was seeing his face as he jumped back, wide-eyed with mouth gaping, amazed at what he had just done. That was hilarious.

    I think that in developing ones "chi" that the goal is to get to the point where you can execute maneuvers in this manner consistantly at the drop of a hat; without having to really focus on bringing all 3 aspects into synch. It just happens naturally.

    My 0.02 on Chi.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    CC...
    I really LIKE you take on it.

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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    Amy, I have a question for you.
    When I was young one of my instructors taught me to ground with the 1st 3 Chakra....to sense it as though it were a thermometer, the mercury rising through the center of my being... are you familiar with this method? Does it make sense?

    PS: Though he may not be well versed in Yogic theory or anything, he did later tell me that I could even, after many years of practice, imagine it more like lava in a volcano.....and that it would travel all the way out the crown of my head and "erupt"....
    interesting...
    Hi John,

    Do you mean the first chakra at the base of your spine? If so, then I agree that that's the best place to ground from, as it will ground all of your chakras at once.

    I don't know for sure, but your instructor may have been referring to cosmic energy. There are two main kinds of energy that run through your body -- Earth energy and Cosmic energy. The cosmic energy is like the thermometer. It comes in through the top of your head, down your back and runs in a loop through your first chakra. Then it run back up the front of your body, branching off down your arms, with some going back out your head.

    Earth energy runs in through the bottoms of your feet, up your legs and down your grounding cord to the center of the planet. If both of those are running, you will be anchored in your body and the awareness that Crippler talked about will there as well. (Both running this energy and having the awareness increase with practice, of course.) It does not, however, take many years of practice to get it to run out the top of your head. That's just a matter of imagining it and deciding it does.

    The other kind of energy that you can run is called Khundalini energy. That's the energy that gives you a second wind. It's very powerful.

    That's a whole other thread.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    Thanks Amy!
    That's Really interesting too me. Where would you recomend I look to do more research on this??

    Thanks a lot....

    Your Brother
    John
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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    I don't claim to know much but in my day job of health care (before begining Kenpo) I have found the following books to be of value:

    The Body Electric by Robert Becker
    Energy Medicine: The Scientific Basis James Oschman
    Energy Medicine in Therapeutics and Human Performance James Oschman

    I hope this is of help to someone. I demythologized it for me!
    Hands on Healer

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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Finn View Post
    I don't claim to know much but in my day job of health care (before begining Kenpo) I have found the following books to be of value:

    The Body Electric by Robert Becker
    Energy Medicine: The Scientific Basis James Oschman
    Energy Medicine in Therapeutics and Human Performance James Oschman

    I hope this is of help to someone. I demythologized it for me!
    Thank you sir!

    I'll be sure to look those up.

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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    Thanks to all of you for your insights!

    I will be doing much research in the future on this subject.
    What I wantd to share with the forum is the ability of some to extend their Chi to break the top, bottom, or middle brick in a three brick stack.
    Have any of you performed this feat? This makes me think of the proverbial "Dim Mak" move.

    My deceased former instructor could do this when he was in his prime. He had no idea how he did it other than that he "willed" the designated brick to break.

    What do you all think about this? I am trying to obtain some footage of this event. If I do I will share it with you all.

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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    Probably the best way to learn about it is to find a good, qualified instructor in the Chinese internal arts - Tai Chi Chuan, Xing-i chuan, bagua, and of course the chi-gong exercises that usually go along with these arts and act to stimulate and develop chi flow and help you understand this better.

    Understand that chi is a very subtle thing. It's development and awareness come slowly and gradually. According to Chinese medical thought, we all have chi flowing within us at all times. However, most of us are unaware of it, and unable to directly control or develop it. We are simply not connected to our own bodies in a way that allows us to do so. I think that much of what we do in the modern world strongly contributes to this disconnection. Chi-gong exercises, and a practice of the internal arts help to overcome this handicap.

    I believe that the people who are able to really develop their control and useage of chi are truly few and far between. I think that a lot of people, including instructors, who think they have all kinds of awsome chi flow and control are either trying to fool you, or are actually fooling themselves. So if you hitch up with an instructor, be a bit wary. It's a difficult thing to really prove or disprove, so I can't give you a definite formula. But basically, if the teacher hasn't been working at this for a long time (i'd say nothing less than 20 years) that alone should raise a red flag.

    I've seen people who begin training Tai Chi, and have little or no experience prior to that. Within days they think they can feel their chi flowing all over the place, and they are convinced that they've already "got it". These are the one's who are fooling themselves. I've been training in Tai Chi for about 9 years. The best I get so far is a slight feeling of warmth in the palms of my hands when I am doing my forms, and that is very occasional. I am sure if I focused the bulk of my training on my Tai Chi I would be better at this, but this has been my experience and I just don't buy it when people claim to understand and control their chi in a short period of time. It is subtle, and it is elusive and it doesn't come easy and it is difficult to explain and understand.
    Michael


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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Thanks to all of you for your insights!

    I will be doing much research in the future on this subject.
    What I wantd to share with the forum is the ability of some to extend their Chi to break the top, bottom, or middle brick in a three brick stack.
    Have any of you performed this feat? This makes me think of the proverbial "Dim Mak" move.

    My deceased former instructor could do this when he was in his prime. He had no idea how he did it other than that he "willed" the designated brick to break.

    What do you all think about this? I am trying to obtain some footage of this event. If I do I will share it with you all.
    I've been working for the last 6 months with a senior guy in yi li quan kung fu, one of Pete Starr's guys, learning qi gong.

    he tells me that this breaking in the middle thing is not much more than a parlor trick,and is based more on the physics of a stack of things under load than any ability to project you energy. I was disappointed to hear that becasue I thought it was very cool! he can do it with a stack of 3 tomatos LOL (or bricks).

    However he is trained in Iron Palm and will pick up a rock, like a river rock, say 4 inch long 2" diameter, and break it in half with a knife hand. OMG imagine that is your clavicle. he has told me, but not yet taught me, that you can, when striking an attacker, project your energy into their body and even guide it to some extent where you want it. Lung, Kidney, heart etc. he hit me and I almost crapped my pants, literally. (Intestine).


    Amy, I'm curious what tradition or culture this interpretation you have comes form? It sounds more yoga than qi gong.

    I'm not going to spek for Dr. Chapel, but he told us that qi and proper anatomical alignment are inseperable, that having good alingment will increase your energy, which increases your alignemnt, whihc increases your qi.. etc spiraling upwards. That's as deep as I could get him to go... wading in the shallows, but I could tell he has depths. All things in time...

    Many of the qi demo tricks (unbendable arm etc) are in fact contained within the SL4 indexes.

    Sl-4 is "internal kenpo" LOL.

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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    Dear Kenpo brother's and sister's:

    Great Chi comments once again!

    I'm concerned about the "parlor tricks" aspects of this subject as well.
    It's not likely that I'll get the opportunity to study with any master's of the arts in this area. I'll poke along on my own and see if I can get that "Flowing Feeling" back that I had so many years ago. I'll report back to the forum to give any fellow AARP members some hope in this regard.

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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post

    Amy, I'm curious what tradition or culture this interpretation you have comes form? It sounds more yoga than qi gong.
    I haven't studied either one of those things. I did go through an energy training program for a year of undergraduate study and a year and a half of post graduate study to learn how energy works.

    As with all things of importance, there are three. In this case, body, mind and spirit. Those things are inseparable. Anything that improves how the body works will improve how the energy works, which can help clear the mind. Improve any one of the three and the other two will follow.

    To get your energy flowing, use your imagination and imagine it flowing through your body. You can imagine at any time, energy flowing up from the planet, through your feet and legs and back out again through the base of your spine.

    The more you practice and the clearer the picture you can create in your mind's eye, the more effective it will be.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    Dear Amy:

    Thanks for your comments. I would agree with you on your comments on body, mind and spirit.

    I'm reading Mitsugi Saotome's book on Aikido and ran across a good "Ki" developement excercise. I'm going to run it by my old Kenpo brother who has been in Aikido for the last 15 years and see what he thinks. I'll run it by the forum if he gives it his blessing.

    Thanks once again!

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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    >What do you all know about Chi or Ki?
    Hi Nelson,

    Very much.

    The type of Ki taught by Ueshiba was mostly and “intention” from a centered stance.

    My complete DVD set “Warrior Chi Training Secrets” covered this. Unfortunately there is much more to Chi training than on that DVD set.

    There is also Chi determined by the chemical processes of eating and of digestion.

    >Do you all believe the concept is real or a Hollywood hoax?

    Which version?

    Jet Li had a movie version where he stuck needles in a person’s neck and the guy’s brain exploded.

    Scanners had a similar version but used telepathy.

    NOT!

    Here’s what happens.

    If you block a person meridians in any way, what it does is affect AFTER A TIME the organ and parts of the body that it feels vital force to.

    Now you can affect someone’s Chi Vessels with your eyes and with your emotions, with your intentions, and with your movements, in a negative way (Also in a positive way).

    It will NOT cause them to melt down like a glob of candle wax.

    It is more like back flushing a flowing stream of water with your hand. The water stream immediately starts flowing correctly again within seconds.

    Chi Blasts, as depicted by some movies is valid, but NOT like a powerful laser or a bomb.

    You can easily use that type of Chi Ball throwing to affect others at a distance. It’s especially easy to do in a movie theater BEFORE the movie starts, to an unsuspecting person, IF THEIR CONSCIOUS MIND is un-occupied.

    If their conscious mind is already focused, they won’t notice anything at all.

    To do this one you need to be real good at self-hypnosis and at controlling your own energies and emotions with very good sensory representations.

    >What do you do to develop Chi in your forms and strikes?

    Celtic had a really good answer to this question.

    He was talking about properly timed complimentary energies so that you used breath, timing, body weight, pulling, proper torque, and proper weapon, through the proper target. Which is the result of many, many hours, months, or even years of training.

    I find it rather amusing that so many different skills are put under that one catch-all phrase.

    There is also a form of Chi training I taught for 5 years to the Speed Seduction folks so that women found them more interesting and enticing.

    Anyone want to know about that one version?

    Enough for now.

    ©Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: What do you know about "Chi"?

    At a recent seminar Grandmaster Larry Tatum walked us through stance set 2 very slow, very controlled. We also did specific breathing exercises throughout.

    At the end he said put your hands like you are holding a ball in front of your body, now move them around.

    He said that is your "chi".

    I swear it felt like my hands were magnetized resisting each other ... to feel is to believe.

    Cool stuff.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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