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Thread: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

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    Default Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    Is the "death touch" or Dim Mak part of Kenpo or Kempo?

    I have a friend that has been studying a style that practices the application of karate blows on specific nerve pathways. It is EXTREMELY efective by the way. I've never studied in such a system and have always thought that this is a "myth" of the arts.

    Does anyone here know about such a technique?

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    I think that is Ninjitsu.
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    That precision striking could be applied to any martial art.

    Try and google George Dillman, he has been teaching that particular application to many different martial artists for long time.
    "Change is not necessary...Survival is not mandatory" - W. Edward Deming

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    I thought that the dim mak was the strike to the breast plate that compressed the chest, thus restricting and stopping the heart. Then again I do remember Van Damn doing it in Bloodsport. Corny, yes... But I just had to break out the obscure movie ref.
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    They had a recent program on Discovery about the science of the martial arts and it was "proven" that this technique would actually work.

    As pointed out above it had to do with an precise strike and chest compression enough to actually hit the heart and cause it to stop.

    Interesting program.

    Personally I would rather just poke them in the eye and be done with it, I know that works! ... my 2 cents
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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    Proper targeting of weapons should always be considered when striking.
    -IMHO
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    Oh Doc... Paging Doc.... We have a topic for you.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Is the "death touch" or Dim Mak part of Kenpo or Kempo?

    I have a friend that has been studying a style that practices the application of karate blows on specific nerve pathways. It is EXTREMELY efective by the way. I've never studied in such a system and have always thought that this is a "myth" of the arts.

    Does anyone here know about such a technique?
    Yes it is, and traditionally always has been. If you look at Mr. Parker's first book, "Kenpo Karate" circa 1961, you will see it included anatomical charts and nerve points and decribed the effect of activating them. That was the last overt reference that Mr. Parker ever made to Nerve Strikes in public writings.

    In Mr. Parker's haste and desire to create a commercialized version of his art, he never inserted material that was inherently dangerous, too difficult, or required too extensive an amount of knowledge to teach. He wanted something that would appeal to everyone from children to middle aged adults, and would be fairly easy to teach at various levels.

    Nerve strike methodologies are not the only things that were ommitted. Locks, and control holds, throws, takedowns, and basics of human movement were all intentionally not a part of the conceptual business model. However, there are some teachers who have attempted to interject some of this information borrowed from other arts. Unfortunately, taken out of context, most of them don't actually fit Parker Kenpo mandates. But on a commercial level, all that matters is that the individual is satisfied with what he has been taught and the belt associated with it. Effectiveness is not a prerequisite. Fortunately, most are never tested in reality.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Effectiveness is not a prerequisite.
    What!?!?!? Then what's the point? I for one would not study a martial art I viewed as ineffective.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    Ladies and Gentlemen:

    I have not spoken to my former associate who has been training in this nerve strike types style in years. However, a close friend and Kenpo brother has been in touch with this person. He has told me that the nerve strikes are done to various places of the body and not just to the chest cavity. My friend mentioned that he was struck in either his arm or leg and almost passed out from the experience. His friend massaged him on the back near the spinal cord for a few minutes until normal sensation occured.

    We are setting up an all day training session with our associate where we will practice kenpo techniques along with some basic nerve strikes. I will bring to the forum the results of what I find.

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    I don't agree that it is wholely ineffective, because hey ripping some guys throat out or gouging his eyes... will probably disable him (if you are willing to do that to someone who pushes or punches you - what kind of retaliation theory is that).But I will say that there is a lot of glazed over kenpo out there that's either air karate or slap happy. If you execute strike after strike after strike and the guy still isn't down... it seems that there is something ineffective. Trying to muscle someone into submission is not effective for me. If I don't employ kenpo principles and nerve strikes, joint manip, etc.... i'm going to be challenged and in trouble. But I'm pretty confident it's all there in kenpo already. I can think of the thousands of times I've lost complete feeling in my arms and legs from "well" targeted and executed strikes... in our epak techniques.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    What!?!?!? Then what's the point? I for one would not study a martial art I viewed as ineffective.
    -Camey

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    What!?!?!? Then what's the point? I for one would not study a martial art I viewed as ineffective.
    I agree, but it depends upon the circumstances. All arts on some level are effective. Especially if it is centered around poking people in the eyes, smashing groins, or striking other soft tissue. Afterall, you don't have to study martial arts to know that a finger in someones eyes will have a negative impact on that person. This is the commercial approach extrapolated from short term self-defense courses for women. However these arts are not effective in the majority of self defense circumstances beyond punching and kicking, yet they still work to some degree. Even a child can hit you in the groin and unknowingly take you out momentarily. But people don't know what's effective. They come to teachers to learn, and usually end up taking the word of someone who himself doesn't know, but happens to know just a little bit more than they.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    As far as the so called "Death Touch," yes it exists however as a modern day concept it is not as viable as it once was. If someone were to execute a series of strikes that incapacitated you, someone would probably call 911 and you would receive medical attention. In previous times, medical treatment of any type was rare and elusive at best. In those times almost anyone could deliver a 'death touch' because without medical treatment you could possibly die.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    Otherwise it would have to be named the "Touch of INSTANT Death".

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    As far as the so called "Death Touch," yes it exists however as a modern day concept it is not as viable as it once was. If someone were to execute a series of strikes that incapacitated you, someone would probably call 911 and you would receive medical attention. In previous times, medical treatment of any type was rare and elusive at best. In those times almost anyone could deliver a 'death touch' because without medical treatment you could possibly die.
    -Camey

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    Would you consider a basic inward block a "nerve strike" then? I was always taught to target the nerve cluster located above the wrist on the forearm when executing this block.

    As far as a "death touch" goes, any well executed strike could cause internal damage to the organs resulting in death. You could rupture a spleen, burst a bladder, or tear a liver with a punch or a kick. I think that maybe when the legend began there was less understanding of medicine and when somebody got "punched" and then died 2-3 days later they thought there must be some kind of magical quality to the punch.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    One of the guys I used to train with loved pressure points. He taught me to just go up and down your arms with your thumb applying pressure looking to find them. However, not everyone is affected by the same points. Striking these points dead on is a very effective method.

    As for the death touch, there are many lethal moves in Kenpo. However, unless you are going to be killed or maimed and there is no way out of it they are off limits. In relation to being part of Kenpo, don't limit yourself to the 154 techniques of EPKA. Cross training is very important.

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    Quote Originally Posted by AMusselwhite View Post
    However, not everyone is affected by the same points.
    Everyone is affected the same by activating the same points, however everyone's external reaction may not be the same. If I were to give you a medical shot with a needle, some people wince, while others act like nothing has happened. Both have been injected and will react to the injection.
    In relation to being part of Kenpo, don't limit yourself to the 154 techniques of EPKA. Cross training is very important.
    I see you're talking about commercial Kenpo. Don't assume that is the Ed Parker kenpo that everyone does. Ed Parker kenpo existed before that material came into being.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Ladies and Gentlemen:

    I have not spoken to my former associate who has been training in this nerve strike types style in years. However, a close friend and Kenpo brother has been in touch with this person. He has told me that the nerve strikes are done to various places of the body and not just to the chest cavity. My friend mentioned that he was struck in either his arm or leg and almost passed out from the experience. His friend massaged him on the back near the spinal cord for a few minutes until normal sensation occured.

    We are setting up an all day training session with our associate where we will practice kenpo techniques along with some basic nerve strikes. I will bring to the forum the results of what I find.
    you might find some interesting information at www.kyusho.com.

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    I'll word my stuff better next time. I was just trying to give an example. As for the pressure points, I have personally rolled a pressure point on a guy's arm and tried it on a second guy and he said that he couldn't feel anything at all.

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    Default Re: Dim Mak or the "death touch"

    Quote Originally Posted by cameypsaromatis View Post
    Otherwise it would have to be named the "Touch of INSTANT Death".
    My punches are very special, I can strike you and you will die 30-90 years later. You won't know when or how. It is very dangerous.

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