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Thread: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

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    Default Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    When I first decided to get back into martial arts I was confronted with a decision to make. I had the large field of martial arts narrowed down to just two styles Kenpo or Kung Fu and made a decision hence I am now a dedicated student of Kenpo. I really like this style and have every confidence in the art but still I wonder how these styles stack up to one another. I know that is a hard question to answer as 99% of the time it comes down to the person, the training they received and how well they can perform the art.

    I can’t say enough how much I like Kenpo, but what I have seen of Kung Fu I was very impressed also. I sat through a Hung Gar class and that was one of the wildest things I have ever seen. I had to think wow that looked very cool but is it practical for street use? Would it take fifteen years of study to be streetable (if that is a word?)

    I am also in a boat where I can’t afford to study both styles, I don’t have the time to really give both styles the practice time it would take to gain real skill in either. I feel like I would be shortchanging myself in studying two at a time. And I have no idea how bad they would clash in how things are executed.

    I guess this is just a long winded way of asking if anyone here has any experience in one of the many Kung Fu styles. If so how does it compare to Kenpo? I guess I am just going through one of those “the grass is greener on the other side phases”. Since I am loyal to Kenpo and plan to stay with this style till I can’t Kenpo any longer I just wonder what I am missing on the other side of the fence.
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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    I have a friend who started of in Kenpo (he does have his 2nd), He has also had the pleasure to travel to China and to travel back to Vietnam (He still has family there). Given this opportunity he has had the chance to experience and train in a variety of martial arts. This guy is phenomenal, just incredible to watch. Watching him go through a form from Tai Shing Pek War is truly a site to behold. I once asked him why he stopped training in Kenpo and went to the Kung Fu systems.

    His response was simple. "I didn't, I just found more material to and into my Kenpo. The movements are different but, the end principles are the same. When you learn to speak, do you just stay with a few words or do you learn more. Kenpo is a tool box, the more tools you have the more problems you can understand how to fix."

    It may sound like "fortune cookie" wisdom but, it explained a lot to me. The time I have spent in Aikido and Wing Chun have allowed me to see the wisdom in what he said. I don't think that you are suffering from a grass is greener on the other side problem, you are just starting to really see that the lawn is a lot bigger.
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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Takai

    I don't think that you are suffering from a grass is greener on the other side problem, you are just starting to really see that the lawn is a lot bigger.
    Excellent post!

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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael151
    Excellent post!


    I 2nd that Very well said, and that helps to put things in prospective and I do tend to think of myself in a way that I don’t have forever to train. I have around fifteen more years to really learn as much as I can. Now don’t anyone take that wrong and think I am putting an age on when you can no longer train. I just know how I am the older I get the harder it is to get out of bed much less doing spinning back kicks at 60 years old
    A black belt covers 2" of your butt. Covering the rest is soley up to you

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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    I remember someone asking Jackie Chan his favorite style. He replied that first he learned sourthen, then northern, and a few others, Then he summed it all up by saying they were all really the same thing just from a different point of view.

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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    It's a big yard too! LOL.
    If you look to the circular movements in Kenpo you will see a lot of "Kung-Fu" influences. But Kenpo was evolved (and hopefully continues to evolve) to deal with real life confrontations in a practical and effective manner. A lot of Kung-Fu leans more towards the "internal" in my humble experience. Very beautiful to watch and takes lots of skill and muscle control.

    If you're doubting Kenpo then maybe you feel there is something missing from your current training. Then again, the "newness" of the Kung-Fu may be what is attracting you. I really don't know, but I do know that you need to feel like you're getting whatever it is you want out of a martial art.

    If you can't afford the time or money to study both then take some time off from Kenpo and study Hung Gar for a month. You may learn something valuable that you can bring back to your Kenpo class, or you might find that Hung Gar fulfills you more-so than Kenpo and decide to stay with that, or you might end up feeling like it was a huge waste of time and regret not sticking with Kenpo, or any number of other possibilities. At any rate it would be a learning experience.

    Do what you gotta do, man. Let us know what happens.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    C. C. -- Well I don’t want to take any time off from Kenpo, not even one class. I haven’t missed a class in four months now. Well except for the belt promotion ceremony that I skipped the other night. Long story that starts with I did something stupid so I skipped that class and I will be in my new gi Monday. But the reason I don’t want to miss any classes I am finally at the point where “I get it” I see the why, the how, and I am making progress. I am so ready for new material that I will be getting now. I don’t think my curiosity with Kung Fu is because of something missing in Kenpo but just that it looked so different and to me comes from a whole different approach to fighting. Not to say one is better than the other just very different. I might take your advice in that maybe they will have a Kung Fu seminar that I could attend. That would give a taste and something else to think about and or incorporate into what I have learned up to this point.


    Also another reason I wouldn’t drop out of Kenpo I am so looking foreword to some of the techs on the list for this next year. Techs like Dance of Death, Thundering hammers, and a long list of others. Those are a few of the Phase two techs I will be learning. I am also looking forward to short 2 and long 2.
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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by dcastiglione
    Then he summed it all up by saying they were all really the same thing just from a different point of view
    This is pretty much the case. It is just like if some one speaks spanish and some one speaks italian and one asks the otehr what am I missing? It is all about knocking the other guys block off...how you get there is up to you....

    I practice Jeet Kune Do, FMA, and Kempo and the similarities are astounding. One destination...many roads...

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by 2004hemi
    I can’t say enough how much I like Kenpo, but what I have seen of Kung Fu I was very impressed also. I sat through a Hung Gar class and that was one of the wildest things I have ever seen. I had to think wow that looked very cool but is it practical for street use? Would it take fifteen years of study to be streetable (if that is a word?)
    In addition to American Kenpo, I also hold a black belt in the Black Dragon System of Kung Fu, although Kenpo is and always will be my primary focus. I was very fortunate to have an awesome instructor, Master Paul Chau who currently has about 45 years experience and still moves like he is 18. The system is very effective with a great balance of hands, feet, weaponry, ground fighting, locks and holds, and so forth.

    Overall, however, there really is no comparison in my opinion. American Kenpo is the most effective martial art I have ever seen, hence why it is my primary focus. I also have obtained black belts in Modern Arnis directly under Grandmaster Remy Presas, as well as Shorinji Ryu Karate.

    The truth is however (and I know this may open up a can of worms): all of the other three arts together don't even come close to the realism and practicality of American Kenpo. That is why 100% of my efforts are now on American Kenpo. Yes, I still practice weaponry, and advanced Kung Fu forms (ie. Tiger & Crane, Dragon & Snake, Dragon Palm...) knife and stick drills from Arnis, but other than that......American Kenpo consumes my DAILY practice, 7 days per week.

    In short, you made the right choice in my opinion.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    two points:
    1. you'll never know the other unless you try
    2. you'll never know the first unless you train seriously for a while.

    so, my advice would be pick one and stick with it for a while (whatever that means, but i am talking in years not months!) and then find a way to try and see if you like it. no sense in having regrets in life....

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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    I don't think you opened up a can of worms with that statement as much as you were stating your personal preference. Everyone has a preference when it comes to martial strategy. The finer point of it is that if it is only a hobby, then study as much as you want to (go learn kung fu, Aikido, MMA or try to preserve that nearly lost Khmer Boxing) but, if it is all about realistic combative theory, then use what you can from whatever you can.

    I am not an American Kempo practitioner (my turn for the worms) as I don't feel that it fits my personal tactical preferance. But from what i have seen, it looks like a very complete art. Everyone should have a solid foundation in one art before they go looking into others. My advice about Kenpo or Kung Fu would be to hold the line and study deep into what you are already doing. The Kung Fu will be there when you need or want it...

    Cool Thread...
    Walt

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    Talking Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    Great post...first of all, I would like to say that I am beginning American Kenpo in the beginning of next month. However, I am an AVID researcher. It was my dilemma as well between Kenpo and Hung Gar (also, Hung Ga and Hung Kuen). From what I gathered, William Chow studied 5 Animals Wushu (which is 1/2 the basis of Hun Gar...100% of the curriculum for Choi Li Fut) and combined it with Mitose's jiu jitsu (although there is some controversy about whether it was jiu jitsu or shorin-ryu). So, Kenpo is basically an evolving combination of the two. If you watch all of the Tracy's videos and compare them to the Hung Gar forms, they are remarkably similar. Just a few motions are different. I can't wait to begin...

    Bill

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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    Funny, I was taught Kenpo is Gung-Fu.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Funny, I was taught Kenpo is Gung-Fu.
    People are so concerned with the format of the education,that they forget the purpose of the education.
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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    The system I practice (Shaolin Kenpo), is based on the 5 animal styles of kung fu. It has no direct link to kung fu per say, but it does use kung fu concepts. I find it has a good blend of Karate and kung fu. It uses circlular and straight line movements as well as soft and hard technique. In my old Karate school you would never have seen a a tiger claw or a crescent kick. The other part of Kenpo which I like is that it is ever changing, we are gradually adding aspects of Aikido and Systema to our style. I chose Kenpo because I live in America and it truly is an American style. Kenpo in my opinion is a melting pot of martial arts.

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    Question Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Funny, I was taught Kenpo is Gung-Fu.
    Sir,
    Pertaining to the statement above, really? Are you saying kenpo is a system of gung-fu, or are you using it as in the definition of kung-fu=hard work?

    1stJohn1:9

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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    I've spent over ten years training in the Chinese arts, after I earned my Shodan in Tracy's kenpo. I've found them to be very beneficial, full of good material, and I love them. I firmly believe that no art is objectively superior to another. Rather, one art may be a better fit for a certain individual, while another art is a better fit for another individual.

    Since you are really just beginning your training in the martial arts, you should definitely focus on one art. Give it all of your attention and build a strong foundation.

    After a number of years, if you feel the inclination, you may be in a position to train in another art and be able to benefit and progress in both arts simultaneously. But if you try to do so now, you will probably just create a frustrating situation for yourself.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by kenpochrstn View Post
    Sir,
    Pertaining to the statement above, really? Are you saying kenpo is a system of gung-fu, or are you using it as in the definition of kung-fu=hard work?

    1stJohn1:9
    Historically the roots of kenpo are a bit convoluted. Beginning as an interpretation of the Traditional Chinese methodologies, than becoming heavily influenced by the Japanese because of its geographical demographics, only to return to its Traditional Chinese Roots, and become splintered once again for commercial appeal.

    Let me be clear. The commercial product created by Ed Parker is a "stew" of various influences, all adjusted for, and with the goal of fiscal viability in a business environment. One of those influences is the "Splashing Hands" methodology, itself, a Gung-Fu off-shoot.

    However, Parker's quest in his original American Kenpo Concept is not represented there. It was Parker's intent through his original American Kenpo idea, to create the ultimate purely American Self-Defense Science utilizing all of the science and methods of the old world chinese. This was to be distilled into an American Package that removed all the cultural and time elongating accouterments found therein, but keep all of the academic science elements expressed in a purely Western and American functional format. An American Gung-Fu.

    Others may not see it that way because there exposure is limited, but my perspective is unique although not special. I studied Parker's Gung-Fu influences, with the same teachers, and saw the emergence of his ideas in his original transitional "Chinese Kenpo." keeping the ideals of kenpo as a self-defense vehicle, but clearly embracing the Chinese methods of understanding body mechanics and training methods. A look at Parker's 'Secret's of Chinese Karate,' published almost immediately after his "Kenpo Karate" book with public, is the clearest indicator of Parker's own progression and switch to the Chinese influence. It is the era when His Kenpo contained forms and sets taken directly from the Chinese Arts. It is the period when we called our teachers "sifu" instead of sensei, and we began wearing our belt knots to the side like a Gung-Fu sash, while keeping the previous uniform influence because it was the most practical.

    So even the commercial kenpo is heavily off-shoot Gung-Fu influenced, even though Parker didn't have the opportunity to fully express his ideas and methods for his true "old school/new American Gung-fu" on paper. It was to contain all the Old School methods and emphasis of stances and proper body mechanics, infused into a comparatively rapid learning vehicle of American Street Self-Defense. That's what I do, and teach, with no disrespect to anyone, but this is where Parker was going. He just didn't get as far along publicly as he would have liked. But make no mistake, that's why many couldn't duplicate what Parker did. For the most part, he wasn't demonstrating Commercial kenpo, he was selling it with the American Gung-Fu he started to call American Kenpo. No wonder everyone is confused.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook View Post
    The truth is however (and I know this may open up a can of worms): all of the other three arts together don't even come close to the realism and practicality of American Kenpo. That is why 100% of my efforts are now on American Kenpo. Yes, I still practice weaponry, and advanced Kung Fu forms (ie. Tiger & Crane, Dragon & Snake, Dragon Palm...) knife and stick drills from Arnis, but other than that......American Kenpo consumes my DAILY practice, 7 days per week.
    Well,
    I love Kenpo Karate much more than anything else I've studied over the past 6 decades, but...

    ...I hated its lack of valid fighting closure technologies, and its very dumbed down kicking skills.

    ...I also "liked" Tai Chi as far as movements went, and for me, it sucked as far as a philosophy goes...

    ...I also "liked" Wing Chun as far as hand center-line movements went, but I hated their lack of circular movements, directions and closing gaps.

    Blab, blab, blab.

    Which I could go on with forever.

    There is a song, "Do what you do do best boy, do what you do do best!"

    Which just about sums up my advice on this topic without going into a dissertation on origins of kenpo, vs Kung-fu, blab, blab, blab.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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    Default Re: Kenpo vs Kung Fu

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Historically the roots of kenpo are a bit convoluted. Beginning as an interpretation of the Traditional Chinese methodologies, than becoming heavily influenced by the Japanese because of its geographical demographics, only to return to its Traditional Chinese Roots, and become splintered once again for commercial appeal.

    Let me be clear. The commercial product created by Ed Parker is a "stew" of various influences, all adjusted for, and with the goal of fiscal viability in a business environment. One of those influences is the "Splashing Hands" methodology, itself, a Gung-Fu off-shoot.

    However, Parker's quest in his original American Kenpo Concept is not represented there. It was Parker's intent through his original American Kenpo idea, to create the ultimate purely American Self-Defense Science utilizing all of the science and methods of the old world chinese. This was to be distilled into an American Package that removed all the cultural and time elongating accouterments found therein, but keep all of the academic science elements expressed in a purely Western and American functional format. An American Gung-Fu.

    Others may not see it that way because there exposure is limited, but my perspective is unique although not special. I studied Parker's Gung-Fu influences, with the same teachers, and saw the emergence of his ideas in his original transitional "Chinese Kenpo." keeping the ideals of kenpo as a self-defense vehicle, but clearly embracing the Chinese methods of understanding body mechanics and training methods. A look at Parker's 'Secret's of Chinese Karate,' published almost immediately after his "Kenpo Karate" book with public, is the clearest indicator of Parker's own progression and switch to the Chinese influence. It is the era when His Kenpo contained forms and sets taken directly from the Chinese Arts. It is the period when we called our teachers "sifu" instead of sensei, and we began wearing our belt knots to the side like a Gung-Fu sash, while keeping the previous uniform influence because it was the most practical.

    So even the commercial kenpo is heavily off-shoot Gung-Fu influenced, even though Parker didn't have the opportunity to fully express his ideas and methods for his true "old school/new American Gung-fu" on paper. It was to contain all the Old School methods and emphasis of stances and proper body mechanics, infused into a comparatively rapid learning vehicle of American Street Self-Defense. That's what I do, and teach, with no disrespect to anyone, but this is where Parker was going. He just didn't get as far along publicly as he would have liked. But make no mistake, that's why many couldn't duplicate what Parker did. For the most part, he wasn't demonstrating Commercial kenpo, he was selling it with the American Gung-Fu he started to call American Kenpo. No wonder everyone is confused.
    Actually the above post should be printed out by all Ed Parker Kenpo Practitioners, studied and memorized.

    Thank you.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette

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