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Thread: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

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    Default Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    Something I've always wondered about. Tai Chi is a great exercise of deliberate motion and technique. There is a bit of mysticism around Tai Chi but I don't really buy it. It seems to me that anything you would do slowly and intentionally would be both a good workout and an extreme exercise of coordination and technique. I haven't really tried it but the more I think about it, it would be a great way to practice tech and form. Is there a difference between the tech in Tai Chi and just practicing anything deliberately and slowly, like Kenpo?
    Basics, the rest is bullshytery.

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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    Yes and No.

    What are you trying to accomplish with just going slow? Are you looking for the health benefits or are you looking for "chi" as Tai Chi defines/develops it?

    Tai Chi, as a martial art, is usually only practiced as a "partial art". It is usually only taught from the soft side of yin/yang and not the harder side and adding back in the fa-jing (explosive energy) and the two person combat drills (san shou, NOT just push hands). Embracing the theory of Yin/Yang (combination of both is Tai Chi, the Grand Ultimate) we should have both ends of the training spectrum present in our art. An art like kenpo, starts wtith the "external" aspects of the art and progresses at higher levels to the internal side of things. Both approaches should reach the same summit of internal/external balance.

    So, taking a step back and looking at a "linear" internal art like Hsing/Xing Yi (Mind Fist Boxing), we can see that the internal principles are principles of the mind to develop the internal aspect and not just the outer shell of the movements. If we apply that to kenpo training. We can train it as an "internal art" by slowing it down and putting our mind into each movement and REALLY feeling and leading the technique to know what is really driving it and coordinating the whole body into each and every movement. Removing all unnecessary "quirks" and improper tension as well.

    If we want just a "health aspect" then we can expand our kenpo techniques by widening and lowering the stances a little bit and expanding our movements while doing it slow to massage the internal organs and lengthen and gently stretch your muscles.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    I forgot to add that your movements should also be bio-mechanically correct as well.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    Doing kenpo slowly is not the same as taiji Chuan.

    as has been pointed out above, there is much more to taiji than moving slowly. Most traditional taiji systems include fast training and partner application work and conditioning and hitting heavy bags and such, much as you would see in a more “external” school. We tend to not see much of that in the West where finding a truly knowledgeable teacher of taiji can be difficult as there simply are not many of them. So all we see in the West is that slow form practice. But those aspects definitely exist in the method and are an important part of the training in order to get a genuine martial training and not simply exercise.

    the slow training in taiji helps to get you really in touch with your movement. It makes you aware of every little detail which, when brought together properly can help you become physically very powerful. It is a method of building full-body connection in your movement. But it cannot stand alone if one wants martial training.

    in terms of the chi development, I’ll be honest and just say that I don’t understand it. I spent a decade or so training taiji, but it was always sort of in second place to other things that I gave more of my time and energy to. So it is possible that I simply failed to grasp some things because I didn’t focus on the taiji training enough and didn’t make it my main work.

    Ive never seen anything that I could describe as chi in the mystical sense of it. I have met taiji people who are very powerful and very capable, but everything that I saw could be developed through the training that I have described above and not with any mystical-level chi. Some people simple get to be very very good at what they do. I’ve been fortunate to meet some of those people.

    so, getting back to the original question. I suppose if you did your kenpo very slowly and with the same kind of mindfulness and attention to all the details that is done in taiji, you might be able to get some of the same benefits of that part of the training that is obtained from taiji. But it isn’t just moving slowly. You would need someone who already has a good understanding of that kind of thing to guide you. And then you would need to make that a significant portion of how you train, moving forward. This isn’t something that you can just do once in a while and expect to benefit from. Like any training, this also must be highly repetitive or else it is little more than a novelty.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    I forgot to add that your movements should also be bio-mechanically correct as well.
    You know I really, really dislike you. I read your post and said, "Ok, that was really good, but he forgot to mention the bio-mechanics." Unfortunately, "Parker Lineage" Kenpo-Karate doesn't really have defined mechanical basics therefore slowing down your movement would have a negligible impactful benefit that slow training should produce. Taiji or Tai Chi is as you stated. it is only the first part of the equation. Grand Ultimate is the beginning process, before the applications are added turning it into Grand Ultimate Fist, or Chúan to Taiji Qúan (Tai Chi Chúan) depending upon the translation.

    So it is absolutely imperative that you practice the slow and correct body mechanics first, which is the "methodology," before adding the explosive Chúan which are the "applications." So the progression of that training makes sense. Perfect the body mechanics first, then learn to apply them. Simple. So examined in the light, does it make sense to try to learn the applications first, then slow down to work on the mechanics after-the-fact?

    Of course not, and especially coupled with the fact that when Mr. Parker designed his "Ed Parker's kenpo Karate" he specifically excluded hard codified physical basics that were the mainstay of previous training. Why? because it is not "user friendly" on a mass scale. That type of training only appeals to a select few in the American Culture, whereas most are looking for something quick that will get them a rank belt. Different culture.

    Mr. Parker first and foremost, designed the system many call American Kenpo, (it is not) to be a "business" first and everything else was secondary, and that was out of necessity. To learn proper mechanics you need a teacher well versed in the methodology to oversee everything you do and constantly making corrections. Therefore, it takes an extraordinarily knowledgeable instructor, which is extremely rare these days, and they have to be present. Add to that the student must be disciplined, diligent, and a self-starter in training with the patience to match because it takes time. So, definitely not for everyone and definitely not for a strip mall full of kids, where most of the money is made these days. There is a reason that only mature people are doing Taiji, it takes discipline and patience.

    So in closing, because "Kenpo Karate" doesn't have basics, it would be virtually impossible to backtrack and receive the benefits that the slow methodology would yield. All it would do is point out the flaws in what you have already learned. The idea Mr. Parker had of teaching based on "motion" was a brilliant concept that allowed mass teaching that didn't require a high level teacher or student. It allowed people to learn some self-defense skills beyond what the average Joe would ever pick up on in life, so it did its job. However if you're looking for the secrets of Taiji Qúan and its benefits, you'd definitely have to look elsewhere.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    I was hoping you would respond. My plan is to give just enough of the basic answer so you have to give out more of the gold nuggets that I don't know.

    My instructor always gives answers based on your question. Ask a "general question" you will get a general answer. The more your question is specified, he knows what you know and will give a more in depth and more information to you.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    I was hoping you would respond. My plan is to give just enough of the basic answer so you have to give out more of the gold nuggets that I don't know.

    My instructor always gives answers based on your question. Ask a "general question" you will get a general answer. The more your question is specified, he knows what you know and will give a more in depth and more information to you.
    That was the "Parker Model." He didn't have any secrets, but if you didn't know what question to ask, he used to say, "You're not ready for the answer anyway."
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    This is an interesting topic. I agree with Doc that - despite certain affinities between Taiji and Kenpo that I myself and others have talked about in the past - the problem with applying the former's methodology to the practice of the latter is that, the way Kenpo is generally presented today, it does not include the kind of subtle body mechanics so characteristic of any internal art.

    That being said, it is ALWAYS a good idea to occasionally go through your movements s-l-o-w-l-y and without any muscle tension, no matter what art you are practising. As this is simply a superb way of improving not only the accuracy, but also - and seemingly paradoxically - the speed of your moves, eventually!

    But beyond that, I for one actually advocate integrating the very kind of sophisticated body mechanics that Taiji is based on into Kenpo. I do so in the framework of my own practice and teaching. I previously went into this on this forum on various occasions, e.g. in the following posts:

    http://www.kenpotalk.com/forum/85-epak-technical-studies/15864-what-if-2.html#post187539


    What if

    It can be demonstrated that the late Mr. Parker and a few of his seniors actually went down this (or a closely related) road.

    But moreover, the "Taiji connection" seems to be something strangely intrinsic to Kenpo from its very beginnings in Hawaii!

    I invite the readers of this topic to ponder the following passages written by Will Tracy, who studied with Mr. Parker during the latter's earliest time as instructor (when he was still teaching essentially just what he had learned from Professor Chow) as well as with Professor Chow himself:

    There is not a single Chinese system teaching anything that resembles Kenpo today, although nearly all of the Kenpo techniques can be found scattered among the hundreds of Chinese kung fu styles. However, I was told by two Tai Chi masters who had trained with Yang Jain Hao, that the fighting techniques of Yang Ban Hao, who was known as "Yang the Invincible," were very close to Kenpo techniques.
    Source:

    https://www.kenpokarate.com/

    In 1959 my brother, Al Tracy, and I demonstrated the Kenpo Karate we had learned from Ed Parker for Sam Wong. I was surprised at how many of the techniques Sam Wong knew, andeven at his age (97) he was able to show us variations to the techniques. Sam Wong had seen Yang Ban-hao fight several times, and told us that Ban-hao's techniques were similar to
    Kenpo, but tighter. He watched Ban-hao blind one opponent using the same Kenpo technique we demonstrated; and, another time he paralyzed an opponent using the same Kenpo elbow
    strike to the back we demonstrated.
    Master Yee who trained with Yang Jain Hao, had also seen Yang Ban-hao fight two times, when Yee was a young boy, and told us Ban-hao used the same Kenpo techniques we knew, but
    that he was extremely vicious, and after breaking one attacker's arm he chopped the man in the throat, and followed it with an elbow stroke that broke the man's jaw. It was a standard Kenpo
    technique my brother and I demonstrated, but as Master Yee, said, Ban-hao's moves were more, "Vicious powerful".
    Both masters said the Kenpo kiai was executed the same as Yang Ban-hao and Yang Jain-hao, but with different sound. Ban-hao and Jain-hao made all sounds through the nose, both on
    the aspiration and exhale, but the exertions of energy was at the same point of focus. They also said the Kenpo stance and way of moving was closer to Yang Jain-hao's style, and while the
    defense techniques were similar, Kenpo was more like Yang Ban-hao's in that the moves were hard and intended to injure.
    Source:

    Yang Cheng-Fu Tai Chi Chuan

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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Star Dragon View Post
    This is an interesting topic. I agree with Doc that - despite certain affinities between Taiji and Kenpo that I myself and others have talked about in the past - the problem with applying the former's methodology to the practice of the latter is that, the way Kenpo is generally presented today, it does not include the kind of subtle body mechanics so characteristic of any internal art.

    That being said, it is ALWAYS a good idea to occasionally go through your movements s-l-o-w-l-y and without any muscle tension, no matter what art you are practising. As this is simply a superb way of improving not only the accuracy, but also - and seemingly paradoxically - the speed of your moves, eventually!

    But beyond that, I for one actually advocate integrating the very kind of sophisticated body mechanics that Taiji is based on into Kenpo. I do so in the framework of my own practice and teaching. I previously went into this on this forum on various occasions, e.g. in the following posts:

    http://www.kenpotalk.com/forum/85-epak-technical-studies/15864-what-if-2.html#post187539


    What if

    It can be demonstrated that the late Mr. Parker and a few of his seniors actually went down this (or a closely related) road.

    But moreover, the "Taiji connection" seems to be something strangely intrinsic to Kenpo from its very beginnings in Hawaii!

    I invite the readers of this topic to ponder the following passages written by Will Tracy, who studied with Mr. Parker during the latter's earliest time as instructor (when he was still teaching essentially just what he had learned from Professor Chow) as well as with Professor Chow himself:



    Source:

    https://www.kenpokarate.com/



    Source:

    Yang Cheng-Fu Tai Chi Chuan
    Well, Al was around with Jimmy (Wing) Woo was teaching Taiji in the Pasadena School so that makes sense. The biggest problem in taking advantage of that teaching is the fact that Mr. Parker shifted from that position.

    There is a tendency for most to see the evolution of "Kenpo" in the Ed Parker Lineage as a straight line, but it is anything but. In fact the "Kenpo-Karate" of origin of Sifu Kwai Sun Chow which was heavily influenced by the Japanese and Jiujitsu of Henry Okazaki, is and was distinctly different from what showed up on the mats in Pasadena. Then even that evolved because of Mr. Parker's association with notable Chinese Masters and shifting focus from Japanese Influence to being driven by the Chinese Perspective and becoming "Chinese Kenpo" for a time with the very deliberate dropping of the word "Karate" altogether.

    Mr. Parker was in the process of translating his "Chinese Kenpo" to what he wanted which was an "American Perspective" to create his "American Kenpo, but was derailed by circumstances. The intent was to create a system that would carryover the benefits of the Chinese Perspective in training but removing the unnecessary cultural accoutrements that artificially elongated the process to significant functional skills. So to be clear, while many prefer to call what they do, American Kenpo, Mr. Parker never did so in reality other than colloquial references, there is no such thing as American Kenpo. There are a lot of Americans doing "Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate" like all of his written material says it is.

    "American Kenpo" had he finished it would have given students the opportunity to explore those mechanical benefits because it would have incorporated the proper movements taught and reinforced by Sifu Jimmy Woo as well as Mr. Parker himself and others like Sifu Ark Wong whom Mr. Parker studied with. But the urgent necessity that caused Mr. Parker to shift focus and create a less mechanically strict system based on "motion" eliminated that possibility. While focusing on just "motion" can yield some benefits in terms of skills in simple applications, the very strict and specific and complex methodology of what was going to be American Kenpo requires a significantly knowledgeable teacher, and that teacher must be present to constantly make corrections and guidance.

    Mr. Parker was one man and he knew that proliferation would not be possible if he taught from that defined basics perspective. It simply wasn't possible, and there were no students who had attained the level of He, Ark Wong, or Jimmy Woo. So instead of American Kenpo, he shifted from a hard curriculum to a soft conceptual one based on motion, with "manuals" that outlined ideas to train from. It didn't matter how you did something as long as it "worked" for you. Thus the huge variances in how students viewed applications.

    So what Mr. Parker did to proliferate his new conceptual motion perspective is, recruit black belts from other styles to teach his concepts. This accounts for the wide disparity in how "basics" are taught and presented. This can easily be found in the inept and dysfunctional Short Form One where for most, the blocks don't make sense because they are a hodgepodge of styles not related to Chinese Execution at all. Dysfunctional is actually putting it mildly.

    So without basics to work from nothing beyond motion can be achieved. No body mechanics, internal energy, longevity, etc.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


    www.MSUACF.com

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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Well, Al was around with Jimmy (Wing) Woo was teaching Taiji in the Pasadena School so that makes sense. The biggest problem in taking advantage of that teaching is the fact that Mr. Parker shifted from that position.

    There is a tendency for most to see the evolution of "Kenpo" in the Ed Parker Lineage as a straight line, but it is anything but. In fact the "Kenpo-Karate" of origin of Sifu Kwai Sun Chow which was heavily influenced by the Japanese and Jiujitsu of Henry Okazaki, is and was distinctly different from what showed up on the mats in Pasadena. Then even that evolved because of Mr. Parker's association with notable Chinese Masters and shifting focus from Japanese Influence to being driven by the Chinese Perspective and becoming "Chinese Kenpo" for a time with the very deliberate dropping of the word "Karate" altogether.

    Mr. Parker was in the process of translating his "Chinese Kenpo" to what he wanted which was an "American Perspective" to create his "American Kenpo, but was derailed by circumstances. The intent was to create a system that would carryover the benefits of the Chinese Perspective in training but removing the unnecessary cultural accoutrements that artificially elongated the process to significant functional skills. So to be clear, while many prefer to call what they do, American Kenpo, Mr. Parker never did so in reality other than colloquial references, there is no such thing as American Kenpo. There are a lot of Americans doing "Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate" like all of his written material says it is.

    "American Kenpo" had he finished it would have given students the opportunity to explore those mechanical benefits because it would have incorporated the proper movements taught and reinforced by Sifu Jimmy Woo as well as Mr. Parker himself and others like Sifu Ark Wong whom Mr. Parker studied with. But the urgent necessity that caused Mr. Parker to shift focus and create a less mechanically strict system based on "motion" eliminated that possibility. While focusing on just "motion" can yield some benefits in terms of skills in simple applications, the very strict and specific and complex methodology of what was going to be American Kenpo requires a significantly knowledgeable teacher, and that teacher must be present to constantly make corrections and guidance.

    Mr. Parker was one man and he knew that proliferation would not be possible if he taught from that defined basics perspective. It simply wasn't possible, and there were no students who had attained the level of He, Ark Wong, or Jimmy Woo. So instead of American Kenpo, he shifted from a hard curriculum to a soft conceptual one based on motion, with "manuals" that outlined ideas to train from. It didn't matter how you did something as long as it "worked" for you. Thus the huge variances in how students viewed applications.

    So what Mr. Parker did to proliferate his new conceptual motion perspective is, recruit black belts from other styles to teach his concepts. This accounts for the wide disparity in how "basics" are taught and presented. This can easily be found in the inept and dysfunctional Short Form One where for most, the blocks don't make sense because they are a hodgepodge of styles not related to Chinese Execution at all. Dysfunctional is actually putting it mildly.

    So without basics to work from nothing beyond motion can be achieved. No body mechanics, internal energy, longevity, etc.
    While Al was at the Pasadena school during the time Mr. Woo was...Mr. Woo did not teach Tai Chi Chuan there. We often discussed his time in Pasadena...and over the years I would often pose the same question several times to test his memory...and his credibility... and I would rephrase my questions to insure that there was no misunderstanding. So naturally over time I asked him who
    his first Tai Chi student was...at first he started to say Rich Montgomery but he immediately corrected himself and said it was
    Jennifer Jones, the Academy Award winning actress. While this was during his time in Pasadena, he taught at her home...there were no other Tai Chi students at that time including Ed Parker who according to Mr. Woo when I asked replied “He wasn’t interested”.

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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Well, Al was around with Jimmy (Wing) Woo was teaching Taiji in the Pasadena School so that makes sense. The biggest problem in taking advantage of that teaching is the fact that Mr. Parker shifted from that position.

    There is a tendency for most to see the evolution of "Kenpo" in the Ed Parker Lineage as a straight line, but it is anything but. In fact the "Kenpo-Karate" of origin of Sifu Kwai Sun Chow which was heavily influenced by the Japanese and Jiujitsu of Henry Okazaki, is and was distinctly different from what showed up on the mats in Pasadena.
    That assessment seems fair enough. None of the shootage I have seen of young Mr. Parker demonstrating his art suggests that Taiji like quality Will Tracy talks about in the linked articles. In fact Mr. Parker seems to have lacked any understanding of sophisticated "internal" body mechanics until a considerably later stage in his development.

    While Will Tracy's comments on the perceived similarity between "original" Kenpo and Yang Ban-hao's art of Taiji also made me briefly consider the role Jimmy Woo may have played in this, it quickly occurred to me that it is much more likely that the reason for this was the teaching of Professor Chow himself, who Al Tracy was eventually going to for further study and who (according to Mr. Parker) had a background in White Crane - a style that actually uses very similar body mechanics like Taiji for generating power. Others say Chow knew Hung Gar or just "some family style." Be that as it may, it does not seem unlikely that Chow's knowledge of Chinese martial arts was at the root of aforesaid parallels - well before there was any kind of "Chinese Kenpo" officially.

    Then even that evolved because of Mr. Parker's association with notable Chinese Masters and shifting focus from Japanese Influence to being driven by the Chinese Perspective and becoming "Chinese Kenpo" for a time with the very deliberate dropping of the word "Karate" altogether.

    Mr. Parker was in the process of translating his "Chinese Kenpo" to what he wanted which was an "American Perspective" to create his "American Kenpo, but was derailed by circumstances. The intent was to create a system that would carryover the benefits of the Chinese Perspective in training but removing the unnecessary cultural accoutrements that artificially elongated the process to significant functional skills. So to be clear, while many prefer to call what they do, American Kenpo, Mr. Parker never did so in reality other than colloquial references, there is no such thing as American Kenpo. There are a lot of Americans doing "Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate" like all of his written material says it is.

    "American Kenpo" had he finished it would have given students the opportunity to explore those mechanical benefits because it would have incorporated the proper movements taught and reinforced by Sifu Jimmy Woo as well as Mr. Parker himself and others like Sifu Ark Wong whom Mr. Parker studied with. But the urgent necessity that caused Mr. Parker to shift focus and create a less mechanically strict system based on "motion" eliminated that possibility. While focusing on just "motion" can yield some benefits in terms of skills in simple applications, the very strict and specific and complex methodology of what was going to be American Kenpo requires a significantly knowledgeable teacher, and that teacher must be present to constantly make corrections and guidance.
    I take it that by "motion" you refer to what might best be described as external motion - relatively gross motor skills ("raise your knee", "stretch your arm", etc.) as opposed to the subtle movement skills that training in the internal arts develops.

    Mr. Parker was one man and he knew that proliferation would not be possible if he taught from that defined basics perspective. It simply wasn't possible, and there were no students who had attained the level of He, Ark Wong, or Jimmy Woo. So instead of American Kenpo, he shifted from a hard curriculum to a soft conceptual one based on motion, with "manuals" that outlined ideas to train from. It didn't matter how you did something as long as it "worked" for you. Thus the huge variances in how students viewed applications.
    While the internal arts also allow for a degree of individual exploration and development, it is true that training in them is extremely stringent when it comes to the intricacies of the body alignment, muscle relaxation/tension, breathing etc. required for their proper execution.

    While those arts (especially Taiji) certainly enjoy great popularity in the West today (albeit sometimes in a simplified form), there is not a way that the degree of personal instruction required by the "American Kenpo" Mr. Parker (according to you) seems to have envisioned would have been compatible with that "McDojo" approach he chose in actuality (as many would call it today).

    So what Mr. Parker did to proliferate his new conceptual motion perspective is, recruit black belts from other styles to teach his concepts.
    And sometimes outright beginners too!

    This accounts for the wide disparity in how "basics" are taught and presented. This can easily be found in the inept and dysfunctional Short Form One where for most, the blocks don't make sense because they are a hodgepodge of styles not related to Chinese Execution at all. Dysfunctional is actually putting it mildly.
    Basic blocks in context with a simple stepping pattern... Not so different from your typical beginner's form in various Japanese Karate styles, I would say!

    So without basics to work from nothing beyond motion can be achieved. No body mechanics, internal energy, longevity, etc.
    Indeed. There is nothing but external, brute force to be had that way!

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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by MChong View Post
    While Al was at the Pasadena school during the time Mr. Woo was...Mr. Woo did not teach Tai Chi Chuan there. We often discussed his time in Pasadena...and over the years I would often pose the same question several times to test his memory...and his credibility... and I would rephrase my questions to insure that there was no misunderstanding. So naturally over time I asked him who
    his first Tai Chi student was...at first he started to say Rich Montgomery but he immediately corrected himself and said it was
    Jennifer Jones, the Academy Award winning actress. While this was during his time in Pasadena, he taught at her home...there were no other Tai Chi students at that time including Ed Parker who according to Mr. Woo when I asked replied “He wasn’t interested”.
    I probably should have said that Sifu Woo was teaching elements of Taiji, as it was explained to me, but not strict Taij Quan, and he had a tremendous influence on Mr. Parker before he shifted focus to the user friendly motion vehicle.
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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    Just as an aside. Al Tracy (and his brothers) stated that they had training in Yang Style Tai Chi prior to their training with Ed Parker. Just adding that in there that they did not claim to have learned Tai Chi from Sifu Woo.
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    Default Re: Slow Kenpo, Tai Chi Chuan, what's the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    Just as an aside. Al Tracy (and his brothers) stated that they had training in Yang Style Tai Chi prior to their training with Ed Parker. Just adding that in there that they did not claim to have learned Tai Chi from Sifu Woo.
    Yeah I agree. Nobody ever said they actually learned Taiji Quan, but some said they were "exposed" to it in the Pasadena School located at 1713 E. Walnut in Pasadena.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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