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Thread: Height width depth cancellation

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    Default Height width depth cancellation

    Hi I'm a purple belt with 2 years training. I've got a test coming up but one thing I just can't understand is how to cancel height width and depth.

    ive asked my instructor but I just get confused with it.

    height is simple enough I do get that one (kick in the nuts, punch in the stoamch etc)

    width i basically get where your effecting one side of their body so they can't use their other hand (lone kimono)

    but its depth I really struggle with. I know the zones and all that I just don't get what you need to cancel them.

    i read somewhere that moving in or moving away would cancel depth. So does that mean for example delayed sword the first step back and block would be a depth cancellation and would the chop be one?

    or would deflecting hammer be one on the last elbow where you get behind them (would that also be width as they can't punch you with the other hand?)

    woukd alternating maces be be a width and depth cancel on the first step back block because you step back then block the arms meaning you can't hit with those arms anymore.

    Last one woukd 5 swords opening be depth due to stepping into the punch with thrthe 2 hand block?


    sorry for all the questions please try and explain it in as simple terms as possible I'm not the smartest person sadly

    i can do the techniques well enough and all the forms it's just the theory I'm awful at and honestly makes me feel stupid

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    Default Re: Height width depth cancellation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo newb View Post
    it's just the theory
    Don't sweat it ... the theory becomes more obvious as you progress.
    I don't disagree with any of your assessments, although some may be more sloppy than others.

    I would say you are thinking correctly concerning 'cancelling'.
    Do something that prevents the opponent from being able to do something.

    On occasion I would spar against someone with much greater reach than I ...
    I would cancel his depth by getting real close to him; inside the effective use of his arms.
    Step in close ... throw some quick body blows ... step out and get out of range.

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    Default Re: Height width depth cancellation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo newb View Post
    Hi I'm a purple belt with 2 years training. I've got a test coming up but one thing I just can't understand is how to cancel height width and depth.

    ive asked my instructor but I just get confused with it.

    height is simple enough I do get that one (kick in the nuts, punch in the stoamch etc)

    width i basically get where your effecting one side of their body so they can't use their other hand (lone kimono)

    but its depth I really struggle with. I know the zones and all that I just don't get what you need to cancel them.

    i read somewhere that moving in or moving away would cancel depth. So does that mean for example delayed sword the first step back and block would be a depth cancellation and would the chop be one?

    or would deflecting hammer be one on the last elbow where you get behind them (would that also be width as they can't punch you with the other hand?)

    woukd alternating maces be be a width and depth cancel on the first step back block because you step back then block the arms meaning you can't hit with those arms anymore.

    Last one woukd 5 swords opening be depth due to stepping into the punch with thrthe 2 hand block?


    sorry for all the questions please try and explain it in as simple terms as possible I'm not the smartest person sadly

    i can do the techniques well enough and all the forms it's just the theory I'm awful at and honestly makes me feel stupid

    Some typos here but I think I get what your saying... Be careful with the "theory" part of the art, be sure to keep yourself ground in or with some science, of the factual or proven kind! The problem with "theory" is that most have their "opinion" on the theory thus leaving any onlooker and certainly beginner with the picture of something that is or can be extremely daunting while painfully confusing to translate to action or motion.(the following for example) I would encourage the application of your lessons on "theory" into action first, don't get to hung up on the "motion"... because that can be a complete and utter waste of valuable time and energy and in some cases brain cells/power. Without going off on a diatribe ( I am sure Doc will cover this as well) I will say that understanding the thing that you ask is of great consequence and importance in your Kenpo and martial journey, so you will do well to spend a little more time on this topic. I will say that "diagonal" action or delivery will cancel all of the zones, height, depth and width. Where as.... actually I will share with you a sub-chapter from my second book still in the works.
    "Constituents Cause & Effect De-coding and applying Contact Manipulation"
    Chapter 5
    Blocking/Striking Effect
    Angular vs. Linear


    A Reasons for both

    "Angular strikes or blocks are relatively similar compared to the linear counterparts of both. The diagonal or angular motion or action does however create a vastly different result in impact than that of the linear action or motion. Remember that linear defines the method of execution and angular defines the path or line of travel relative to the target or intended target. That being said, they can be one in the same, a linear strike on a diagonal path and vice versa. When I say this in this instance or application I mean that a perpendicular strike or strike at a right angle to the center of mass will have a vastly different result than that of an angular strike or a strike delivered at an angle relative to the center of mass.
    Where we have a difference in application is when we talk about the plane of travel vs. the intended target, somewhat similar to the term “angle of incidence” accept not. This term is more of a “now” term where the other is more of an “in process” definition. I do not want to confuse the issue here though; the section title defines the application of a strike or block to the opponent relative to their attack or posture and stance at the moment of execution. It becomes a “versus” but on more than one level."

    So I realize that this is likely more confusing, and will be really fun to see the additional comments/critics... The depth of action can be cancelled in two ways, with a diagonal or opposite and greater linear action. Depth implies the travel or execution on a #1, 4, or 7 plane (this is accounting for the opponent to be in front of you) in a # 3, 5, 8 direction. move opposite their direction linearly or diagonally to the in/oncoming action with equal or slightly greater force and you will cancel the depth of action. (see the definition of "block" in the encyclopedia or Infinite insights)

    Well that's about enough for me... Sorry bout that and good luck on that test!
    "The problem is not whether or not you like bad kenpo, the problem is recognizing whether or not your kenpo is bad!"
    "learning should be an endless process, learning how to continually learn is the key and requires the release of ego"

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    Default Re: Height width depth cancellation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpo newb View Post
    Hi I'm a purple belt with 2 years training. I've got a test coming up but one thing I just can't understand is how to cancel height width and depth.

    ive asked my instructor but I just get confused with it.

    height is simple enough I do get that one (kick in the nuts, punch in the stoamch etc)

    width i basically get where your effecting one side of their body so they can't use their other hand (lone kimono)

    but its depth I really struggle with. I know the zones and all that I just don't get what you need to cancel them.

    i read somewhere that moving in or moving away would cancel depth. So does that mean for example delayed sword the first step back and block would be a depth cancellation and would the chop be one?

    or would deflecting hammer be one on the last elbow where you get behind them (would that also be width as they can't punch you with the other hand?)

    woukd alternating maces be be a width and depth cancel on the first step back block because you step back then block the arms meaning you can't hit with those arms anymore.

    Last one woukd 5 swords opening be depth due to stepping into the punch with thrthe 2 hand block?


    sorry for all the questions please try and explain it in as simple terms as possible I'm not the smartest person sadly

    i can do the techniques well enough and all the forms it's just the theory I'm awful at and honestly makes me feel stupid

    Hey there... No worries on the questions.. that why this forum exists. Questions are always good if the explanations are sometimes lacking.

    I am going to disagree with Michael when it comes to the idea of "Canceling" ... for HWD (Height, width, and depth) I do not particularly like the description of canceling it.

    You are not canceling anything, you are managing or manipulating it. Typically you are doing that with more than one at a time too.

    Personally I gauge an individuals HWD with their footwork. If I can draw out their stance the direction and or spacing of their feet I am managing their HWD. Sure there are other factors, bending them at their waste or ribs buckling the knees etc...

    Try this... get yourself in front of a mirror... set your stances.. change them and see how it changes your HWD in your reflection.

    I guess personally "Canceling" has a certain connotation for me that simply does not apply.

    Anyway.. play with it.. see what you see... take your time.

    The bunny of the temple of bunny doom.
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

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