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Thread: What if

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    Default What if

    This is something I consider a lot. What would've happened to kenpo if ed Parker had lived for another 10-20 years. He died right before the UFC came in. I believe that ed Parker would've loved the UFC especially in its early days and I believe he would've added a lot more ground fighting elements due to the success of bjj. To me it's such a shame so many instructors are stuck in the past and they're making kenpo into a standard traditional system like shotokan or kyokushin etc. Kenpo was always meant to be adapted but so many are stuck with how it was in the early 90s they take what ed Parker said back then as gospel.

    Now im a young guy I wasn't even born when ed Parker died but I've read a lot on martial arts and I live and breathe it and I genuinely believe kenpo should've adapted more. Right now I'm heavily into Krav Maga and the organisation I train with KMG they are constantly updating and evolving what they do. To me that is what kenpo should be. Today I feel to many only care about just practicing their forms and getting themselves their next Dan rank and from what I've read and from people I've spoken to who knew ed Parker. I believe he'd be very unhappy with the state of kenpo today.

    i still love kenpo and I train my forms techniques daily but I also train other systems and analyse my techniques and insert things from other systems I believe is more effective for me.

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    Default Re: What if

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma_student View Post
    This is something I consider a lot. What would've happened to kenpo if ed Parker had lived for another 10-20 years. He died right before the UFC came in. I believe that ed Parker would've loved the UFC especially in its early days and I believe he would've added a lot more ground fighting elements due to the success of bjj. To me it's such a shame so many instructors are stuck in the past and they're making kenpo into a standard traditional system like shotokan or kyokushin etc. Kenpo was always meant to be adapted but so many are stuck with how it was in the early 90s they take what ed Parker said back then as gospel.

    Now im a young guy I wasn't even born when ed Parker died but I've read a lot on martial arts and I live and breathe it and I genuinely believe kenpo should've adapted more. Right now I'm heavily into Krav Maga and the organisation I train with KMG they are constantly updating and evolving what they do. To me that is what kenpo should be. Today I feel to many only care about just practicing their forms and getting themselves their next Dan rank and from what I've read and from people I've spoken to who knew ed Parker. I believe he'd be very unhappy with the state of kenpo today.

    i still love kenpo and I train my forms techniques daily but I also train other systems and analyse my techniques and insert things from other systems I believe is more effective for me.
    Like most things, it depends on what you desire to get out of the art. The questions of why do you train? What is your intent? Competition? Self Defense? Mastery of self? Exorcise? Community? Business opportunity? any combination of the above?

    That said... I trained in several varied arts through the years before I started with Kenpo and to be honest I thought Kenpo was crap in my first year of it till I was directed to train with someone else in my area. (Thank you Amy). I train for different reasons than others around me.. and over the last 30 odd years my intentions have changed as most peoples will.

    From what I have heard of GM Parker ... and Doc could chime in a more accurate than I... but I could not imagine him really being disappointed with it all. Perplexed perhaps... possible more.. that moment that you watch someone doing something stupid and all you can really do is sigh... and then get back to what you do.

    The Bunny

    Ohh personal opinion... Krav footwork is terrible and has far too much wasted energy... but thats just my 2 coppers.
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    Default Re: What if

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma_student View Post
    This is something I consider a lot. What would've happened to kenpo if ed Parker had lived for another 10-20 years. He died right before the UFC came in. I believe that ed Parker would've loved the UFC especially in its early days and I believe he would've added a lot more ground fighting elements due to the success of bjj. To me it's such a shame so many instructors are stuck in the past and they're making kenpo into a standard traditional system like shotokan or kyokushin etc. Kenpo was always meant to be adapted but so many are stuck with how it was in the early 90s they take what ed Parker said back then as gospel.

    Now im a young guy I wasn't even born when ed Parker died but I've read a lot on martial arts and I live and breathe it and I genuinely believe kenpo should've adapted more. Right now I'm heavily into Krav Maga and the organisation I train with KMG they are constantly updating and evolving what they do. To me that is what kenpo should be. Today I feel to many only care about just practicing their forms and getting themselves their next Dan rank and from what I've read and from people I've spoken to who knew ed Parker. I believe he'd be very unhappy with the state of kenpo today.

    i still love kenpo and I train my forms techniques daily but I also train other systems and analyse my techniques and insert things from other systems I believe is more effective for me.
    For what it's worth, some are. And many disagree because they believe the system is "complete". The depth to which you study the system will determine the value and lessons gleaned from that system. Depth requires time, and in time a person either falls into the cool-aid dispenser or comes to a hard realization but many or should I say most don't take or spend the time required to see. I agree with MrBunny in his statement "it depends".
    Last edited by sumdumguy; 04-11-2019 at 11:08 AM.
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    Default Re: What if

    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    For what it's worth, some are. And many disagree because they believe the system is "complete". The depth to which you study the system will determine the value and lessons gleaned from that system. Depth requires time, and in time a person either falls into the cool-aid dispenser or comes to a hard realization but many or should I say most don't take or spend the time required to see. I agree with MrBunny in his statement "it depends".
    Amen Brother. So many make the mistake of making broad sweeping statements about "Kenpo" as if it were Shotokan or something. It isn't, never has been, and never will be. I know what you teach is dam good and has no relationship to the posters opinion, nor what I teach either, and that goes probably for most of the resident posters here who all do some form of art related to but not bound by some "manual" description. None of the smart people do, and that was what Mr. Parker wanted his people to do. Take his ideas and create your own style. The so-called teachers let him down.

    News Flash: Mr. Parker was disappointed with the state of "Kenpo" when he was still alive. Since the late sixties, "Kenpo-Karate" as promoted by Ed Parker Sr. has always been more "business" than "martial art" and has never been a "style" of the art. Mr. Parker knew this and expressed that it was an "Entity feeding upon itself" and that he had lost control of the product. That being said, there are some brilliant people who still managed to pull the real lessons out of the conceptual curriculum and have done some great things with the product just has Mr. Parker had intended. Unfortunately, the masses just wanted another belt, and instructors just wanted another student to help pay the bills. And, I'm not saying anything is wrong with that. Like everything else, context makes a difference, so I remind the novices not to put all "Kenpo" in the same bag.

    As for the "grappling" thing, Mr. Parker and his only "Kenpo" Instructor Sifu Chow were doing that before he left Hawaii. That's not new. Mr. Parker, Gene LeBell, and Dave German were doing and teaching that in the 50's, and lessons of it are embedded in the Ed Parker Kenpo Karate Curriculum, but it takes a more worldly and intelligent instructor to bring it forth and teach it. yeah, it's in there. Yep! There's an Ap for that.
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    Default Re: What if

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny View Post
    Like most things, it depends on what you desire to get out of the art. The questions of why do you train? What is your intent? Competition? Self Defense? Mastery of self? Exorcise? Community? Business opportunity? any combination of the above?

    That said... I trained in several varied arts through the years before I started with Kenpo and to be honest I thought Kenpo was crap in my first year of it till I was directed to train with someone else in my area. (Thank you Amy). I train for different reasons than others around me.. and over the last 30 odd years my intentions have changed as most peoples will.

    From what I have heard of GM Parker ... and Doc could chime in a more accurate than I... but I could not imagine him really being disappointed with it all. Perplexed perhaps... possible more.. that moment that you watch someone doing something stupid and all you can really do is sigh... and then get back to what you do.

    The Bunny

    Ohh personal opinion... Krav footwork is terrible and has far too much wasted energy... but thats just my 2 coppers.
    I agree with you wholeheartedly, especially about Krav. They have no footwork, which happens to be the foundation for everything as you know. Mr. Parker's move to the business is was spawned Krav. I remember when the business of Krav started. They were recruiting experienced instructors to teach the concept, just as Mr. Parker did when he started the business of "Kenpo-Karate." Classes were free for law enforcement and some security professionals back then. that was a smart move and aided in their recruitment. Unfortunately, the commercial business of Krav bears little relationship to the real Krav Maga of the IDF, and the real instructors are not in large enough numbers to even make it possible.
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    Default Re: What if

    Fad.

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    Default Re: What if

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Fad.
    What is a fad, MMA?

    i would say it is not a fad. But some proponents of it want to claim that it is THE yardstick against which all other martial arts must be measured. It is not.

    i don’t follow it, I don’t pay attention to it, I have no interest in it, I am only vaguely familiar with some of the names of competitors that get some attention and I don’t adjust anything about how I train because of MMA.
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    Default Re: What if

    MMA is a fad as well. Its popular now but when will the magic rub off?

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    Default Re: What if

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    What is a fad, MMA?

    i would say it is not a fad. But some proponents of it want to claim that it is THE yardstick against which all other martial arts must be measured. It is not.

    i don’t follow it, I don’t pay attention to it, I have no interest in it, I am only vaguely familiar with some of the names of competitors that get some attention and I don’t adjust anything about how I train because of MMA.
    Ditto, except I only know one name, Rhonda Rousey through Gene Lebell.
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    Default Re: What if

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    MMA is a fad as well. Its popular now but when will the magic rub off?
    It’s a fad in the same way that boxing is a fad.
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    Default Re: What if

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    MMA is a fad as well. Its popular now but when will the magic rub off?
    Lol people said the same in 93. Sorry but it's here to stay

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    Default Re: What if

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    I agree with you wholeheartedly, especially about Krav. They have no footwork, which happens to be the foundation for everything as you know. Mr. Parker's move to the business is was spawned Krav. I remember when the business of Krav started. They were recruiting experienced instructors to teach the concept, just as Mr. Parker did when he started the business of "Kenpo-Karate." Classes were free for law enforcement and some security professionals back then. that was a smart move and aided in their recruitment. Unfortunately, the commercial business of Krav bears little relationship to the real Krav Maga of the IDF, and the real instructors are not in large enough numbers to even make it possible.
    Have you ever actually trained Krav Maga? Because frankly the footwork is almost the exact same as kenpo. They have switches, covers and crossovers. They move in almost exactly the same away and the guy who runs KMG the organisation I train under eyal yanilow was Imi litchfields highest ranking student

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    Default Re: What if

    I used to watch a lot of MMA when FOX (at least I am pretty sure it was FOX) used to show a lot of "Pride" fighting from Japan. The fighting was so good with a lot more Asian fighters than you see in UFC.

    Sadly UFC bought them out as they started to get just as big as the UFC.

    You can still watch some of the fights or at least highlights of the fights on YouTube.

    Remember the Don Frye vs Yoshihiro Takayama fight?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Ff_7d_Jn8

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    Default Re: What if

    Quote Originally Posted by Crouching Tiger View Post
    I used to watch a lot of MMA when FOX (at least I am pretty sure it was FOX) used to show a lot of "Pride" fighting from Japan. The fighting was so good with a lot more Asian fighters than you see in UFC.

    Sadly UFC bought them out as they started to get just as big as the UFC.

    You can still watch some of the fights or at least highlights of the fights on YouTube.

    Remember the Don Frye vs Yoshihiro Takayama fight?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Ff_7d_Jn8
    I don't trust the Japanese Mma scene, it's well know there were fixed fights and most were on steroids

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