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Thread: Anyone heard of this?

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    Ma_student is offline
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    Default Anyone heard of this?

    so I was talking to a old friend today. I knew he was testing for black belt in kenpo soon so I asked but he said they'd refused to grade him....the reason being....his gi had a hole in it and apparently that's disrespectful....

    The hole was apparently in the trousers on his knee so a common place to get a rip but either way that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. The guys not exactly well off so he couldn't afford a new gi and I know him. He's extremely talented and think he should've made black belt a long time ago but they refused because of something so dumb. I honestly don't know how having a hole in your gi pants is disrespectful.

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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Well, I can see where a hole in someone's gi can be seen as disrespectful, especially in a dojo that has a heavy Japanese influence.

    However, more importantly it would be up to the sensei of the dojo to set the rules and make sure everyone knows those rules. If the sensei doesn't want holes in anyone's gi he or she needs to make that clear.

    If it is not that big of a deal then they need to make that clear also.

    On the flip side, I think it is also important for the student to just maintain their gi no matter what the rules of the dojo are. Sure, I don't think any of us have the money we would like and buying a new gi all the time is probably pretty low on everyone's priority list when it comes to money.

    But gi's can be purchased on line for pretty low now too, lightweight gi's go for 25 or 30 bucks on some websites. I would hope someone could scrape together 30 bucks if they have to.

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    Default Anyone heard of this?

    Schools get to set their own standards. BB testing in the system I studied in was a process that typically took a couple of weeks but because candidates almost completely came out of the Instructor group, nobody would have shown up with a hole in their uniform. But if someone did, it wouldn’t be a “you’re not getting tested”, it would have been a “you need to pay more attention to your uniform as you move forward”.


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    Last edited by jdinca; 02-11-2019 at 10:42 AM.
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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Not for nothing ...

    The 1987 Yellow Belt Journal says ...

    "Through adherence to the formalities and ceremonies, discipline and respect become ingrained in the students. ...
    1. Uniforms: Students' uniforms shall be white and should be maintained in a clean and sanitary condition."

    For what it is worth.

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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    lol makes me laugh that a system that's meant to be as progressive as kenpo is still quoting stuff from 1987. That's the problem with kenpo today no ones evolved it they've stuck with the same stuff since ed Parker died because no one dares change anything. Even though that's exactly what ed Parker. If he was still alive kenpo would probably completely different today and he'd probably be very sad with how little the style has progressed in 2019

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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma_student View Post
    lol makes me laugh that a system that's meant to be as progressive as kenpo is still quoting stuff from 1987. That's the problem with kenpo today no ones evolved it they've stuck with the same stuff since ed Parker died because no one dares change anything. Even though that's exactly what ed Parker. If he was still alive kenpo would probably completely different today and he'd probably be very sad with how little the style has progressed in 2019
    Not True.. some of us have changed and move on or forward with our Kenpo and the processes and materials that we teach... But I do agree that Ed Parker's Kenpo would be much different in today's time where he still alive!
    "The problem is not whether or not you like bad kenpo, the problem is recognizing whether or not your kenpo is bad!"
    "Being a master by your own proclamation doesn't make you a master, it only makes you an arrogant"

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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma_student View Post
    lol makes me laugh that a system that's meant to be as progressive as kenpo is still quoting stuff from 1987. That's the problem with kenpo today no ones evolved

    Yes, Yes,

    "adherence to ... discipline and respect "

    is completely irrelevant today. It is so, 1980s'

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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    I'm sure some have evolved it and that's great. I know Jeff speakman has evolved a lot but I've also seen a lot of hate towards him from certain members of the kenpo community because of it. The problem is the majority of people haven't evolved it and are still teaching stuff that frankly...doesn't work and they know it doesn't work but they still teach their students it because they dare not go against parkers word.

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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michaeledward
    Yes, Yes,

    "adherence to ... discipline and respect "

    is completely irrelevant today. It is so, 1980s'
    That wasn't what I was referring to, but it's a very solid point!!! still need some of the traditions for that very reason, thus I maintain and teach the pledges etc....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma_student View Post
    I'm sure some have evolved it and that's great. I know Jeff speakman has evolved a lot but I've also seen a lot of hate towards him from certain members of the kenpo community because of it. The problem is the majority of people haven't evolved it and are still teaching stuff that frankly...doesn't work and they know it doesn't work but they still teach their students it because they dare not go against parkers word.
    This comment makes me wonder about your background and history/understanding in the arts, however the fact that he changed things isn't really what bothers most. IMHO, it's his attitude and arrogance... I've been there a few times when he proclaimed "if you aren't doing this you are not doing it right, this is the future of martial arts". now mind you this was in a room full of very senior people, and lots of them. I don't personally care what he or anyone else does, until it is either useful to me and my students or in some way negatively affects my personal journey in and through the arts.
    "The problem is not whether or not you like bad kenpo, the problem is recognizing whether or not your kenpo is bad!"
    "Being a master by your own proclamation doesn't make you a master, it only makes you an arrogant"

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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    That wasn't what I was referring to, but it's a very solid point!!! still need some of the traditions for that very reason, thus I maintain and teach the pledges etc....



    This comment makes me wonder about your background and history/understanding in the arts, however the fact that he changed things isn't really what bothers most. IMHO, it's his attitude and arrogance... I've been there a few times when he proclaimed "if you aren't doing this you are not doing it right, this is the future of martial arts". now mind you this was in a room full of very senior people, and lots of them. I don't personally care what he or anyone else does, until it is either useful to me and my students or in some way negatively affects my personal journey in and through the arts.
    i attended a seminar with Mr. Speakman about a decade ago. I was simply not impressed with what I saw. I saw some really bad ideas, including knife defenses that included taking the knife away from the attacker and then using it to systematically gut and flay him alive. Some other attendees were LEO, and I heard some mutterings of “that’ll get you prosecuted...”

    perhaps things have changed in the decade since then. I dunno.

    my biggest objection to what he was doing was what seemed to me to be his attempts to build an empire through absorbing other groups, rather than doing the hard work of teaching good stuff that has merit and is passed along to successive generations. But that takes hard work and a long time, so instead he seemed to be looking for people who wanted to join his organization or otherwise make alliances to boost his standing. I think he saw (sees?) himself as a pioneer and wants to be a (the?) authority on what kenpo ought to be, and he is looking for joiners and converts, who in my opinion tend to be the kind of folks who are distracted by the next shiny object.

    that is my opinion.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    So no different to ed Parker Kenpo then? Where in the kenpo techniques you disarm them then stab them when they're on the floor (piercing lance) or cut them to pieces (thrusting lance)

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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma_student View Post
    So no different to ed Parker Kenpo then? Where in the kenpo techniques you disarm them then stab them when they're on the floor (piercing lance) or cut them to pieces (thrusting lance)
    My kenpo training was Tracy, so I am not familiar with the techniques you mention.

    now mind you, I’ve said for years that kenpo (the Tracy curriculum in which I have experience) has plenty of bad ideas in it. No particular branch or brand has the monopoly on that. I am of the opinion that there is room for revision. I don’t recall any Tracy knife defenses that were so blatantly and gruesomely and needlessly overdone, but there are other punch defenses and such that leave the bad guy with his spine broken in three different places, collar bones broken, and eyes ripped out, all in one technique. That kind of thing is pretty ridiculous, in my opinion. As if the guy is not quite dead enough.

    there are other techs that include entering maneuvers that strike me as extremely poorly thought out, to set up combos that look good on paper but are unlikely to work well. Some of this seems like exercises in exploring physical movement, but they forgot to weed-out the bad ideas in order to make it functional and streamlined.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma_student View Post
    So no different to ed Parker Kenpo then? Where in the kenpo techniques you disarm them then stab them when they're on the floor (piercing lance) or cut them to pieces (thrusting lance)


    and this gets us back to my statement about what I am doing... without going into so much about me or how great things are (that is not the intent) I am and have incorporated more practical no nonsense escrima basics and uses of the weaponry, I am not eliminating ALL of the kenpo "weapons" tech's but a large portion of them and teaching them with different skill sets from the beginning. (granted they do offer lessons that are not gained elsewhere but those lessons can be taught in and around the other techniques with more discretion IMO) Then there is the ground work, that in my opinion has been done horribly by most with regard to transitions and integration's into or with the jujitsu. most in my opinion are no more than a clumsy extension utilizing the "ju-jitsu" they have learned and moving into that "gaming/competition" arena. I do not want to, nor will I do that! I want real answers that get me back on my feet and gone from the event! Sorry for the rant!
    "The problem is not whether or not you like bad kenpo, the problem is recognizing whether or not your kenpo is bad!"
    "Being a master by your own proclamation doesn't make you a master, it only makes you an arrogant"

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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    That wasn't what I was referring to, but it's a very solid point!!! still need some of the traditions for that very reason, thus I maintain and teach the pledges etc....



    This comment makes me wonder about your background and history/understanding in the arts, however the fact that he changed things isn't really what bothers most. IMHO, it's his attitude and arrogance... I've been there a few times when he proclaimed "if you aren't doing this you are not doing it right, this is the future of martial arts". now mind you this was in a room full of very senior people, and lots of them. I don't personally care what he or anyone else does, until it is either useful to me and my students or in some way negatively affects my personal journey in and through the arts.
    I never met Mr. Speakman so far, so I will refrain from commenting on his teaching style. But noone can claim to have single-handedly progressed the art of Kenpo overall. In truth, several people have developed different aspects of it. Be free to mix and match as you see fit...

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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    The first guy I graded to black belt... his test was just a few days after a "friendly sparring match" with a bunch of black belts from other systems. Tore the crap our of his gi in the process of defending himself from attacks that had stopped being friendly.

    I didn't hold it against him.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    The first guy I graded to black belt... his test was just a few days after a "friendly sparring match" with a bunch of black belts from other systems. Tore the crap our of his gi in the process of defending himself from attacks that had stopped being friendly.

    I didn't hold it against him.
    Have you really trained if you don’t have a container in the garage of gis in pieces, and frankenstiened a few to hold them together?

    Respects,

    Bill Parsons
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