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Thread: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

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    Default What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    What do you think about the Dim Mak?
    Is it all hokum or is there any truth behind it?

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    What do you think about the Dim Mak?
    Is it all hokum or is there any truth behind it?
    Both.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Having looked into this topic A LOT, I agree with Doc. There is both fakery and fact.

    First, people need to have a working definition of what they actually mean by "dim mak". For some, they use the Bubishi (okinawan "bible of karate") and that lists both pressure points, organs, and other weak spots. For others, it is the application of accupressure points based on chinese meridians and the 12 hour cycles of the chinese zodiac animals and the 5 elements.

    Once that is established it becomes much easier to discuss. I have seen many people say that "dim mak is BS", but agree that certain nerve points work.

    For me, I train to hit vulnerable points of the body. This includes, organs, nerves, certain weak spots on bones, etc. BUT, one of my criteria is that they must be accessable even if a person is moving around (to a fair degree). So, I don't CARE how bad the pressure point is between your big toe and second toe, I'm not going to be able to reliable activate it while we are wearing shoes. The reason I bring that one up is a VERY well known PP "expert" shows a "destructive sequence" for combat that he is pressing the point on his partner's foot with his big toe, while he is hitting a point on the wrist, while at the same time hitting a point on the neck. His posture to hit all three at the same time just reeked of ineffective if the person was resisting in any way.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Did Frank Dux know this technique?

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    I think Mitose did��
    "To be, rather than to seem"

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Did Frank Dux know this technique?
    Yeah, right.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    Having looked into this topic A LOT, I agree with Doc. There is both fakery and fact.

    First, people need to have a working definition of what they actually mean by "dim mak". For some, they use the Bubishi (okinawan "bible of karate") and that lists both pressure points, organs, and other weak spots. For others, it is the application of accupressure points based on chinese meridians and the 12 hour cycles of the chinese zodiac animals and the 5 elements.

    Once that is established it becomes much easier to discuss. I have seen many people say that "dim mak is BS", but agree that certain nerve points work.

    For me, I train to hit vulnerable points of the body. This includes, organs, nerves, certain weak spots on bones, etc. BUT, one of my criteria is that they must be accessable even if a person is moving around (to a fair degree). So, I don't CARE how bad the pressure point is between your big toe and second toe, I'm not going to be able to reliable activate it while we are wearing shoes. The reason I bring that one up is a VERY well known PP "expert" shows a "destructive sequence" for combat that he is pressing the point on his partner's foot with his big toe, while he is hitting a point on the wrist, while at the same time hitting a point on the neck. His posture to hit all three at the same time just reeked of ineffective if the person was resisting in any way.
    It is not unusual to run across a very few who have some knowledge, but unfortunately lack the capacity to translate their information into combat. Most attempt on some level to reverse engineer information sir by looking at acupuncture charts. Problem is, ALL of the charts are subjective and usually vary a great deal from chart-to-chart.

    But more importantly, vulnerable points and cavities are shielded by various density tissue and bone, and only "present" themselves when proper posture presents itself. Posture is very specific, and even a slight change in weight distribution can allow or block access. Keep in mind all of the acupuncture charts are designed for "healing" purposes, and the presumption is the subject is supine when administrating procedures.

    Unfortunately, when people stand up and move, so do the access points and cavities shift and change, and alter access angles. This is very precise and very specific information that is easily demonstrable.

    But the key as I was taught to learning this info lies not in the info directly, but in understanding the mechanics of human movement execution on an interactive basis, and what the body does and how it reacts to external stimuli. When you understand that, it is remarkable how cavity information "jumps" out at you for application purposes.

    Most don't understand it, and because of that and other factors, attempt ludicrous applications that have no basis in the reality of interactive combat. When I asked Mr. Parker, "How can you hit a spot precisely in the middle of a fight?" Mr. Parker told me, "I'm not looking for pressure points or cavities in a fight, I do things that make them come to me." I understand what he meant and teach the same sir.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Knowledge speaks but wisdom listens." - Ed Parker Sr.

    "It's much easier to quote, than to know." - Ron Chapél


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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    So I sense a negatory on the Dux man. Lol

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    My teacher taught me a death touch thing, and I suppose it would work if the guy was oiled up and bare chested; however, you can never practice it on your friends. How are ya gonna even think to use a move you have never practiced, in a fight? And, lets just say, I wanna do it, as a coup de gras. I have to undress the guy, to try to stop his heart? I know a factoid, not a useful fact.
    Also Mastering Tsing Tao.

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Well, I can hit you anywhere and you will die. Eventually. Even if it's not until fifty years later. But what good is a fifty year delayed-death touch?

    harrumph.
    Michael


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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    I believe that buried in a mound of bs there is a pony down there as Ronald Reagan used to jokingly say!
    I don't know Frank Dux but I've conversed with him via FB. He came out of Count Dante's Black Dragon Society that started in the 1960's. After Dante died his protege worked his way into Hollywood. The movie Blood Sport featuring "Wham bam Van Dam" was made about Dux. On a personal note my late Sense Mike Sanders knew "John" well and never called him the Count.
    Back in the 1960's many big name martial artists fought in the Counts tournaments or brought teams of fighters. When Dante went off his rocker and started holding full contact bare knuckled tournaments the "big boys" stayed away. "He could fight" as Mike used to say. Did Dante have the Dim Mak? It's doubtful? Did others from the era have the "death touch"? Possibly.

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    I believe that buried in a mound of bs there is a pony down there as Ronald Reagan used to jokingly say!
    I don't know Frank Dux but I've conversed with him via FB. He came out of Count Dante's Black Dragon Society that started in the 1960's. After Dante died his protege worked his way into Hollywood. The movie Blood Sport featuring "Wham bam Van Dam" was made about Dux. On a personal note my late Sense Mike Sanders knew "John" well and never called him the Count.
    Back in the 1960's many big name martial artists fought in the Counts tournaments or brought teams of fighters. When Dante went off his rocker and started holding full contact bare knuckled tournaments the "big boys" stayed away. "He could fight" as Mike used to say. Did Dante have the Dim Mak? It's doubtful? Did others from the era have the "death touch"? Possibly.
    Well, it is certainly possible to just hit someone and damage them severely even unto death. Humans are both very fragile and surprisingly tough at the same time. Without knowing these fellows, my vote is no, they did not have a dim-mak.
    Michael


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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Quote Originally Posted by flying crane View Post
    Well, I can hit you anywhere and you will die. Eventually. Even if it's not until fifty years later. But what good is a fifty year delayed-death touch?

    harrumph.
    IMO, some of the "delayed death touch" was just that. I hit the guy and rupture his spleen it takes awhile for his body to go septic and die. I give the guy a concussion and he goes to sleep and never wakes up. Some of these stories were just due to lack of medical technology. Others, I think, were just the two guys fight and the other guy dies unexpectedly from something, so the remaining guy capitalizes on it and says "delayed death touch" to build his rep and avoid people wanting to fight him. Lastly, "poison hands" was used with "dim mak" many times and involved people actually using poisons on the other person and again, death was delayed. Not CMA related, but the "ninja" used to have stories about coating weapons with feces to cause infections.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    IMO, some of the "delayed death touch" was just that. I hit the guy and rupture his spleen it takes awhile for his body to go septic and die. I give the guy a concussion and he goes to sleep and never wakes up. Some of these stories were just due to lack of medical technology. Others, I think, were just the two guys fight and the other guy dies unexpectedly from something, so the remaining guy capitalizes on it and says "delayed death touch" to build his rep and avoid people wanting to fight him. Lastly, "poison hands" was used with "dim mak" many times and involved people actually using poisons on the other person and again, death was delayed. Not CMA related, but the "ninja" used to have stories about coating weapons with feces to cause infections.
    Our own soldiers did that to bullets, before they went into the rifle, during the Civil War.
    Also Mastering Tsing Tao.

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    Our own soldiers did that to bullets, before they went into the rifle, during the Civil War.
    It's probably been done by many armies throughout history. But, most didnt' attribute it to a "delayed death touch".
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    It's probably been done by many armies throughout history. But, most didnt' attribute it to a "delayed death touch".
    It was the same concept.
    Also Mastering Tsing Tao.

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    IMO, some of the "delayed death touch" was just that. I hit the guy and rupture his spleen it takes awhile for his body to go septic and die. I give the guy a concussion and he goes to sleep and never wakes up. Some of these stories were just due to lack of medical technology. Others, I think, were just the two guys fight and the other guy dies unexpectedly from something, so the remaining guy capitalizes on it and says "delayed death touch" to build his rep and avoid people wanting to fight him. Lastly, "poison hands" was used with "dim mak" many times and involved people actually using poisons on the other person and again, death was delayed. Not CMA related, but the "ninja" used to have stories about coating weapons with feces to cause infections.
    Absolutely sir. "Delayed Death Touch" takes on a whole other meaning when you remove modern emergency medicine techniques and accessibility to the equation. Virtually any significant trauma inflicted on the body in a confrontation, could result in a "delayed death" attributed to some nebulous "death touch." In some cases it could be true, but only because of a lack of medical treatment availability.
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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    What do you think about the Dim Mak?
    Is it all hokum or is there any truth behind it?

    Totally really... I can do it..

    Everyone I touch.... dies... .... eventually...

    Bubun... the deadly...
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

    -JTHM

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    Default Re: What do you think about the so called death touch or Dim Mak?

    You gotta leave it to those guys: They do pretty good marketing. I guess mystery is all that sells their books.

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