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Thread: Quote from Motobu on blocking and continuous attack

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    Default Quote from Motobu on blocking and continuous attack

    I saw this quote over at the SJ Forum and thought it was interesting. I had read it before, but it kind of went to the back of my mind. This quote is from Choki Motobu (karate's bad boy for lots of fighting).

    One cannot use continuous attacks against true karate. That is because the blocks of true karate make it impossible for the opponent to launch a second attack.
    This is the idea behind ippon kumite. Against a committed attack, your block and counter will not allow the other person to keep throwing punches at you. We have had discussions on here before about completing the S-D techniques and what they are for.

    How do you think this quote applies to kenpo (or not)? Does this type of training apply to your kenpo (or not)?
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

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    Default Re: Quote from Motobu on blocking and continuous attack

    I thnk he is referring to body positioning in relation to the block and strike. You just don't block and throw a counter but move your body, block and strike at the same time


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    Default Re: Quote from Motobu on blocking and continuous attack

    ever been punched in the bicep by a real old-school karate guy? I think that's a big part of why you can't attack again

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    Default Re: Quote from Motobu on blocking and continuous attack

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    I saw this quote over at the SJ Forum and thought it was interesting. I had read it before, but it kind of went to the back of my mind. This quote is from Choki Motobu (karate's bad boy for lots of fighting).



    This is the idea behind ippon kumite. Against a committed attack, your block and counter will not allow the other person to keep throwing punches at you. We have had discussions on here before about completing the S-D techniques and what they are for.

    How do you think this quote applies to kenpo (or not)? Does this type of training apply to your kenpo (or not)?
    We address this kind of training/sparring in our SL-3 Tactical component. Same thing but from a more sophisticated kenpo Perspective. However what I do not do is get too deep into the philosophical Japanese Perspective, which reflects a cultural perspective as much as anything else sir. Of course all have merit, you just have to know where you draw the line. Some good, and lots of bad sir.
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    Default Re: Quote from Motobu on blocking and continuous attack

    I don't think this is a philosophical argument. I think it is more of an intended versus actual result assessment. If the attacker's intention is not fulfilled, the attacker will need to re-assess and re-engage. If the block/counter is effective enough to keep the attacker locked in the re-assessment phase, then he will not be able to re-engage. I believe the quote is more a physiological than philosophical debate.
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    Default Re: Quote from Motobu on blocking and continuous attack

    Quote Originally Posted by punkmonkey View Post
    I don't think this is a philosophical argument. I think it is more of an intended versus actual result assessment. If the attacker's intention is not fulfilled, the attacker will need to re-assess and re-engage. If the block/counter is effective enough to keep the attacker locked in the re-assessment phase, then he will not be able to re-engage. I believe the quote is more a physiological than philosophical debate.
    Interesting.Certainly that could be, but it leaves much to be desired in the translation process, and could be "shaped" to fit ones own perspective I guess.
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    Default Re: Quote from Motobu on blocking and continuous attack

    Quote Originally Posted by punkmonkey View Post
    I don't think this is a philosophical argument. I think it is more of an intended versus actual result assessment. If the attacker's intention is not fulfilled, the attacker will need to re-assess and re-engage. If the block/counter is effective enough to keep the attacker locked in the re-assessment phase, then he will not be able to re-engage. I believe the quote is more a physiological than philosophical debate.
    I agree. The very nature of self defense is an interruption, interception or prevention of the attacker's intent. A physiological course of action with psychological repercussions. Philosophically all true self defense can be summed up in four words, "Stop the bad guy!"

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    Default Re: Quote from Motobu on blocking and continuous attack

    Quote Originally Posted by punkmonkey View Post
    I don't think this is a philosophical argument. I think it is more of an intended versus actual result assessment. If the attacker's intention is not fulfilled, the attacker will need to re-assess and re-engage. If the block/counter is effective enough to keep the attacker locked in the re-assessment phase, then he will not be able to re-engage. I believe the quote is more a physiological than philosophical debate.
    Well said.
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    Default Re: Quote from Motobu on blocking and continuous attack

    Here is my thought, taken from my latest article on this subject (http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.com.au...no-blocks.html):

    I don't think Motobu was talking about how blocks are actually "offensive weapons". This is a popular view today, but I believe it is clearly misconceived. When you consider the preceding analysis I think it becomes clear that he was talking about how blocks allow you to establish control in a situation where you have little or none. When you establish control, you can dictate terms. You are no longer being dictated to. Blocks enable you to "turn the tables" from a position where you are facing an attack, to one where you are not. That is because blocks deal with (ie. "receive") the attack in a way that thwarts it and any others that would follow as part of a combination. They cut off that whole line of assault while simultaneously setting you up in a safer position from which you can counter or simply escape.

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    Default Re: Quote from Motobu on blocking and continuous attack

    Quote Originally Posted by dandjurdjevic View Post
    Here is my thought, taken from my latest article on this subject (http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.com.au...no-blocks.html):
    I don't know in what context Motobu made his statements, and whether or not there was more to what he was saying that would give some clarification. I won't pretend to know what he meant by it.

    I will say however, that blocks can be offensive weapons, and offensive weapons can function as blocks (the method taught in the school I attend tends toward the latter). Either way, being on the receiving end of them makes it clear how effective it can be. My sifu can intercept (i.e."block") my punch in a way that takes the fight right out of me, hurts, can be truly injurious, and can stop the fight right there and without further follow-up. I'll also add that when we "block", it seldom looks like the typical karate blocks that we perhaps think of under the term. We don't use what would be recognized as an inward, outward, upward, downward, middle, or other "standard" karate block. But that's just us.

    To say that the view of blocks being offensive weapons is clearly misconceived, well I disagree. It may be misconceived under some circumstances and in some examples, but certainly not all, not across the board.

    But I can certainly see how one could interpret Motobu's comment in the OP in the context of using the block as a weapon, or using weapons to block. When done right it can definitely make it impossible for the bad guy to use continuous attacks. Because when you blocked that first attack, you injured him and it can very well be over.
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    Default Re: Quote from Motobu on blocking and continuous attack

    I think that there is sometimes (not necessarily always, but sometimes) a difference between a block which is done as an initial response to an unanticipated attack (a block used purely for self-defense) - which is often an extension of the initial startle reflex - and a "block" used in a fight (that is, once the combative situation has been recognized and actively engaged by all parties involved). The first, by its very nature, often lacks the focus/power/commitment (whatever) to be anything more than a defensive tactic. Once combat is in process, and one can engage the opponent with full intent and focus, however, there should be no "block" per se. As the late Joe Lewis once told me (btw, Mr. Lewis almost never actually "blocked" anything himself), "if you have to block a punch, you make sure he isn't going to throw another one with that same arm." Take it for whatever it's worth.

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