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Thread: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

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    Default Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxESl...re=grec_browse

    I think if he understood the technique and taught his students not to Auto-cat, they would be able to choose and would be fine.

    My definition, auto-cat = Blocking and going directly to a cat because the next thing in the technique is a kick, so basically working from memorization. No good in combat.

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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    A guy once showed me that you should block and kick at the same time even. I wasn't so sure about that...
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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    i think if he/everyone kept the instigator's attack as a grab instead they would be better off as well.. the student had his forearm right by his neck.. he could have left it in there to create space, but instead let clyde get closer.. this vid is two cans of worms.. 1. it's delayed sword. 2. it's clyde..

    have a fun gun carrying kenpo day or something along those lines.
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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Quote Originally Posted by madeku View Post
    i think if he/everyone kept the instigator's attack as a grab instead they would be better off as well.. the student had his forearm right by his neck.. he could have left it in there to create space, but instead let clyde get closer.. this vid is two cans of worms.. 1. it's delayed sword. 2. it's clyde..

    have a fun gun carrying kenpo day or something along those lines.
    Yeah unfortunately there are more people with little understanding saying the techniques don't work, than there are with even an orange belt's understanding.

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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastkenpoist View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxESl...re=grec_browse

    I think if he understood the technique and taught his students not to Auto-cat, they would be able to choose and would be fine.

    My definition, auto-cat = Blocking and going directly to a cat because the next thing in the technique is a kick, so basically working from memorization. No good in combat.
    Anyone can make any tech look bad when taken out of context.
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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    The defender would not have been tackled if he used a stronger kick to any target(either leg or the groin). The kick was not to the traditional target, but if he would have followed through with it the attackers knee would have been damaged or the attacker would have been jammed(since the kick was above the knee).

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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post
    The defender would not have been tackled if he used a stronger kick to any target(either leg or the groin). The kick was not to the traditional target, but if he would have followed through with it the attackers knee would have been damaged or the attacker would have been jammed(since the kick was above the knee).
    I disagree. If an opponent is charging you and trying to take your space, you will need more stability than one leg can provide. That is why you can't launch back directly to a cat, your opponent may not know that he is supposed to stop at contact range.

    I think this is the point he was trying to make with his student, but he doesn't seem to understand the larger idea.
    Last edited by Eastcoastkenpoist; 10-09-2010 at 05:04 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Rex View Post
    Anyone can make any tech look bad when taken out of context.
    This is a very good argument. Also, nearly any clip can look wrong when taken out of context, too. I have no experience regarding this fellow so I can't put this message into greater context, so I have to give him the benefit of the doubt that there was something smarter presented outside of the 30 seconds shown. Was it possible that he was talking about the strengths first and then the clip showed a what if?

    Just trying to be fair...
    "If a person prefers to do something another way, and he is happy with his results, no one can tell him he's wrong" Ed Parker, as quoted by Doc

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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Quote Originally Posted by stone_dragone View Post
    This is a very good argument. Also, nearly any clip can look wrong when taken out of context, too. I have no experience regarding this fellow so I can't put this message into greater context, so I have to give him the benefit of the doubt that there was something smarter presented outside of the 30 seconds shown. Was it possible that he was talking about the strengths first and then the clip showed a what if?

    Just trying to be fair...
    I would have given him some benefit of the doubt, if the posting comment was not there.

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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Interestingly, at least to me, is we start with techniques at the yellow belt level. This is delayed sword, and it is against yada-yada attack. Then we bring in someone like Clyde... And we haven't spoken in years, but I mean the man no ill.

    Clyde, immediately takes a yellow belt technique with what I assume were yellow belt students and then tears it down, showing the "weakness" of the technique and how vulnerable the student is....

    At the risk of irritating anyone... Well, Duh! No matter who it may be doing it. I kind of wonder how that all works in the mind of a beginning student.

    We tell the student, "Kenpo is one of, if not, the greatest art for defense in the whole wide world. Except there's one tiny problem... The techniques aren't going to make you impervious". I'm thinking that simply making them appear weak, and out of context, might not be such a great confidence builder.

    When you get that kind of action, how many of those Yellow Belts are going to get to orange, or purple before they give up and go play golf or take up Hapkido?

    I know, I know, call me an old poop, but that is the original system and the intent of the belt levels. Behind the advancement at different belt levels is the learning and what ifs.

    One can't, realistically, walk into begin lessons and two weeks later know enough to employ a particular technique, as it is, with all the variables that can occur in the natural course of human on human combat.

    Just thinking out loud.

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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastkenpoist View Post
    I disagree. If an opponent is charging you and trying to take your space, you will need more stability than one leg can provide. That is why you can't launch back directly to a cat, your opponent may not know that he is supposed to stop at contact range.

    I think this is the point he was trying to make with his student, but he doesn't seem to understand the larger idea.
    Obviously if the person is charging you may want to use another tech, but this defense will work with the attack shown. I never use a cat, my stance is more of a neutral bow and the kick goes straight to the target. I am taking his space.
    The attacker started with a punch that turned into a charge. this would not have happened. The attacker would have been on the ground screaming because of the busted knee.

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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Last time I checked, Delayed Sword is not a defense against a punch or a tackle, shoot, whatever.
    Anyway, one thing that always happens when you have a person sowing how a shoot or tackle of whatever will work against a punch or kick, is that the person attacking has no reservations about giving it everything he's got in order to achieve the takedown. The defender usually holds back a lot and doesn't execute his kick or strike with anything near full power.
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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    Last time I checked, Delayed Sword is not a defense against a punch or a tackle, shoot, whatever.
    Anyway, one thing that always happens when you have a person sowing how a shoot or tackle of whatever will work against a punch or kick, is that the person attacking has no reservations about giving it everything he's got in order to achieve the takedown. The defender usually holds back a lot and doesn't execute his kick or strike with anything near full power.
    you beat me to it

    you can see it here and you can see it in many of the old Gracie Challenge videos. The strikers are playing at sparring-level of intensity, the take-downer is going a lot harder.

    IMHO this video shows the importance of understanding how to manage the attackers forward momentum, and control teh depth of the encounter. The tech as executed here does none of that.
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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    If all players were allowed to be spontaneous ...

    It seems like a good place for a spontaneous use of Intercepting the Ram.

    I wonder how the lesson would have proceeded if the attacker received an inward downward elbow, with marriage of gravity, to the spine.

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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    I think that was Joshua Ryer being attacked. In either case, he reacted well even though he was set up for it. Ended up in a strong position. Clyde's take down maneuver was weak, although he may have not been trying and was only trying to get a point across.
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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    If you tell someone to do any given tech, and suddenly do a different attack, you will find that by placing that tech in their head, it will cause a bit of confusion... the first time.
    Sean

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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Rex View Post
    I think that was Joshua Ryer being attacked. In either case, he reacted well even though he was set up for it. Ended up in a strong position. Clyde's take down maneuver was weak, although he may have not been trying and was only trying to get a point across.
    I missed that point the first time, good catch!
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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Rex View Post
    I think that was Joshua Ryer being attacked. In either case, he reacted well even though he was set up for it. Ended up in a strong position. Clyde's take down maneuver was weak, although he may have not been trying and was only trying to get a point across.
    Hey Guys,

    That being the case, then I made a couple bad assumptions... And so do apologize. However, it still bodes no one well to work a technique incorrectly. The only other way that I know to do that "thing" well is to not concentrate on the techniques, but only on reactions, ala Frank Soto. Good? Bad? Dunno, it's your Kenpo, and therefore, your call.

    Philosophically, I don't know if it's good or bad, physically, after having been in and at Kenpo since '71, I'm kind of stuck in the old days of "perfect" teaching techniques and then what ifs. Still not sure that the way it was done is best, but I'm not militant about how others do it.

    Hope you all won't cast too evil an eye my way. LOL!

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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    If you tell someone to do any given tech, and suddenly do a different attack, you will find that by placing that tech in their head, it will cause a bit of confusion... the first time.
    Sean
    This is not the first time this clip has been posted here. I made similar comments way back but was generally ignored lol. We are in agreement on alot here:

    1. Student is told to do delayed sword (against a punch).
    2. Attacker (clyde) gives a weak, uncommited punch that is nowhere near hitting its target, he then goes for the shoot and takes the poor guy down (clyde is a big, heavy guy, no surprise here).

    Basically, the student was setup to fail. This was not a logical, systematic exploration of the technique, because delayed sword calls for an aggressive grab, not the half-hearted punch/shoot combo which was used to 'prove' that delayed sword doesn't work.

    If the student was given the option of reacting to the attack as presented, he would have firstly push-dragged in reverse and attempted a hammering block at the punching wrist. With that option now gone (as the tackle has begun) the student could have done any manner of things - downward forearm block to the back of the neck as he continues the movement from the inward block for example. But he did none of these things as he was instructed not to.

    I'm still unsure what this video is supposed to be demonstrating - but logical thinking is presumably not one of them lol.

    A few conclusions:
    1. I'm sure Clyde will tell you that D.S. works just fine if done right.
    2. We cannot hear what the heck he is saying, and have no idea of the wider context in the class or what he was trying to teach
    3. We never 'auto cat' in this technique - 'auto foward-bow' is a better option has it aligns us for a potential follow-up kick and keeps our structure intact in case of incoming tackle.

    If Clyde was demonstrating that drawing back to a cat-stance is a very bad idea, then he is spot-on. We never get to see what his solution is however.

    I maintain that the scenario as presented in the video is majorly flawed.

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    Default Re: Comment on the on the video says how yellow belt techniques can suck

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    This is not the first time this clip has been posted here. I made similar comments way back but was generally ignored lol. We are in agreement on alot here:

    1. Student is told to do delayed sword (against a punch).
    2. Attacker (clyde) gives a weak, uncommited punch that is nowhere near hitting its target, he then goes for the shoot and takes the poor guy down (clyde is a big, heavy guy, no surprise here).

    Basically, the student was setup to fail. This was not a logical, systematic exploration of the technique, because delayed sword calls for an aggressive grab, not the half-hearted punch/shoot combo which was used to 'prove' that delayed sword doesn't work.

    If the student was given the option of reacting to the attack as presented, he would have firstly push-dragged in reverse and attempted a hammering block at the punching wrist. With that option now gone (as the tackle has begun) the student could have done any manner of things - downward forearm block to the back of the neck as he continues the movement from the inward block for example. But he did none of these things as he was instructed not to.

    I'm still unsure what this video is supposed to be demonstrating - but logical thinking is presumably not one of them lol.

    A few conclusions:
    1. I'm sure Clyde will tell you that D.S. works just fine if done right.
    2. We cannot hear what the heck he is saying, and have no idea of the wider context in the class or what he was trying to teach
    3. We never 'auto cat' in this technique - 'auto foward-bow' is a better option has it aligns us for a potential follow-up kick and keeps our structure intact in case of incoming tackle.

    If Clyde was demonstrating that drawing back to a cat-stance is a very bad idea, then he is spot-on. We never get to see what his solution is however.

    I maintain that the scenario as presented in the video is majorly flawed.
    I think this post sums it up very well. This is almost one of these "don't think of a purple elephant" situations. I bet I know what you are thinking about right now.

    If this is Clyde's premise, then he is drawing the wrong conclusion. If this is someone else posting a video of Clyde, perhaps the context is being misunderstood by the poster.

    If I were working in a garage with someone like this, I envision it a frustrating experience:

    Person: I want you to tighten these 13mm nuts, can you do this?

    Me: Of course, do you think I'm an idiot, hand me the wrench.

    Personhands me a twinkie)

    Me: This is a twinkie, not a wrench, I can't do what you want.

    Person: Wow, you suck. Wrenches suck too. You should have seen that coming.

    Me: World Taekwondo Federation!

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