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Thread: Body Responses

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    MMAkid1 is offline
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    Default Body Responses

    Hello all. I usually train with my friends and we train as close to real as possible, but I just can't be sure of how his body would react if I really struck him. I was wondering if there was a website or perhaps a program that can show you how the body will react to any type of strike with any amount of force. Does anyone know of such a site or program?

    Many thanks
    MMAkid1

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    What is close to real? I would start by having your partners relaxe, close there eyes, and you just hit them with control but some force and watch how they react... then its your turn. As for the real part, how close are you sparing? Are you trading kicks or are you at contact manipulation? With some control and conditioning, your partners may eventualy becomed relaxed enough to be good bodies. And you want your "bodies" to react as if they have been struck but able, willing and ready to take advantage of your disadvantages to keep it real on that end as well.
    Sean

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    I'm working on that but my problem is when they become relaxed and I strike them, they do one thing, but when we're sparring I don't hit them as hard, and they do another. How can I be sure that their (my opponents) body will react as if relaxed when they have an adrenaline rush and are attacking me with force?

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    Quote Originally Posted by MMAkid1 View Post
    I'm working on that but my problem is when they become relaxed and I strike them, they do one thing, but when we're sparring I don't hit them as hard, and they do another. How can I be sure that their (my opponents) body will react as if relaxed when they have an adrenaline rush and are attacking me with force?
    This is why a lot of schools don't emphasize sparring until the later belt levels. The problems you are facing will cause you to develop habbits you may not want once you know what you are doing. I would google sparring and find out all the different methods you can. You may want to start at 1/4 or half speed to get rid of some of that fear and nervousness and feel your self doing kenpo real up close and personal, then pick up speed. Bad sparring habbits are a killer. Its overdone but understudied all at the same time.
    Sean

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    Roach is offline
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    Default Re: Body Responses

    Quote Originally Posted by MMAkid1 View Post
    Hello all. I usually train with my friends and we train as close to real as possible, but I just can't be sure of how his body would react if I really struck him. I was wondering if there was a website or perhaps a program that can show you how the body will react to any type of strike with any amount of force. Does anyone know of such a site or program?

    Many thanks
    MMAkid1
    Kenpo is a hands-on/application system. Different strikes do different things, to different targets, on people of differing physiological make-up. You gotta work these applications in a controlled environment on your partner. Get away from "reading" and "watching" and start "doing". Only then will you understand.

    Good luck.
    Be safe,

    Roach

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    Quote Originally Posted by Roach View Post
    Kenpo is a hands-on/application system. Different strikes do different things, to different targets, on people of differing physiological make-up. You gotta work these applications in a controlled environment on your partner. Get away from "reading" and "watching" and start "doing". Only then will you understand.

    Good luck.
    I agree. Less reaction more doing.
    Sean

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    oldslowguy is offline
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    Default Re: Body Responses

    Quote Originally Posted by MMAkid1 View Post
    I'm working on that but my problem is when they become relaxed and I strike them, they do one thing, but when we're sparring I don't hit them as hard, and they do another. How can I be sure that their (my opponents) body will react as if relaxed when they have an adrenaline rush and are attacking me with force?
    I think it boils down to intent. If they're attacking with force and you're striking without force, then you're getting the right response. That's always the problem with showing restraint in sparring, it has to be mutual. My previous instructors would emphasize that if I won't acknowledge the strikes, then he'll make me.
    "Many years of training is wasted by one night of drinking"-oldslowguy

    "Pain may be a cruel master..........but it breeds diligent pupils."

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    don't spar.

    use the same gear and the same level of contact but work the same attack scenarios as you practice with the techniques. The search function might lead you to some intersting ideas on alternatives to sparring. For example, clsoe your eyes, attacker picks a spot around you, on "GO" you open your eyes and he launches the attack from unknown direction- as hard as he would if he were sparring, and you defend yourself - and he, if he can, continues to attack/resist you.

    Also there is a saying "tough is not how much you can dish out but how much you can take" so if you don't have someone to teach you proper body reactions, then you are just going to have to hit each other, a lot. It makes you tougher. Don't injure each other.

    "Cry in the dojo, laugh on the street" means, take your beatings from your friends in the school, not from strangers. I tell my grade-school students "yeah I know that hurt but Jimmy here has been practicing how to punch for 2 years. Do you think anyone in your class can hit as hard as Jimmy? They can't. So if somebody does punch you, it might hurt but you know that you've been hit much harder before, you will survive, and so you can laugh it off and get on with defending yourself."
    -David C
    http://www.kungfubooksonline.com

    "...while you guys are arguing, I'm on the grind."
    - an anonymous brick puncher

    "If you don't ask the right questions, I can't give you the answers, and if you don't know the right question to ask, you're not ready for the answers"
    -Ed Parker Sr.

    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    The way we train is without padding, but we use control. My partner and I simulate a Realistic Actual/Armed Combat Experience (RACE). What I mean is, I get into a mock argument with him, and try to de-escalate the situation. He may strike at any moment with any weapon wherever he chooses and he can strike as many times as he likes. The goal is to react without thinking and end the confrontation in any way. If you hesitate or slow down to think about what to do next, it ends and your turn is up. If I or my opponent see or feel a strike that we believe would be ineffective, we wait until the attack ends and then go over it slowly and try to see how the body would react. The problem is, if I strike him too hard, I may hurt him, and if I strike too softly, he wont react correctly. I want to know how his body will act when struck with True Force. Any ideas?

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    Drew is offline
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    Default Re: Body Responses

    Hmm...this is really where you need a good instructor. For example, I've seen I don't know how many people bend at the waist like they are going to do a toe touch when 'kicked' in the groin during a technique. But if you think back to a time it happened to you or recently seen some one get hit there, the body almost always folds up into to itself with the hands going down and the chin going out. A good instructor would notice the improper reaction and fix it. Plus, there are more subtle body postures that you'll miss if you aren't looking for them. So, it helps to have a good instructor point them out.

    Outside of that (and getting into brawls), the only other thing I can think of watch a lot of fight videos on youtube. There are little gems you can pick up in there.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing;
    drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    and drinking largely sobers us again. --Alexander Pope

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    Quote Originally Posted by MMAkid1 View Post
    Any ideas?
    see my previous post

    "just hit him" LOL
    -David C
    http://www.kungfubooksonline.com

    "...while you guys are arguing, I'm on the grind."
    - an anonymous brick puncher

    "If you don't ask the right questions, I can't give you the answers, and if you don't know the right question to ask, you're not ready for the answers"
    -Ed Parker Sr.

    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Hmm...this is really where you need a good instructor. For example, I've seen I don't know how many people bend at the waist like they are going to do a toe touch when 'kicked' in the groin during a technique. But if you think back to a time it happened to you or recently seen some one get hit there, the body almost always folds up into to itself with the hands going down and the chin going out. A good instructor would notice the improper reaction and fix it. Plus, there are more subtle body postures that you'll miss if you aren't looking for them. So, it helps to have a good instructor point them out.

    Outside of that (and getting into brawls), the only other thing I can think of watch a lot of fight videos on youtube. There are little gems you can pick up in there.
    My instructor does point such things out, but I want to know exactly how much force I need to use to produce the desired effect. And, BTW, I've probably watched over 250 fight videos and, in my earlier, meaner days, been in at least 30 or more fights. I was a bad kid. But, thank you for your help. Any other ideas please tell me.

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    Quote Originally Posted by MMAkid1 View Post
    My instructor does point such things out, but I want to know exactly how much force I need to use to produce the desired effect. And, BTW, I've probably watched over 250 fight videos and, in my earlier, meaner days, been in at least 30 or more fights. I was a bad kid. But, thank you for your help. Any other ideas please tell me.
    You don't need to worry as much about force but intent and your partner's trust that you'll show restraint. You can get the body's natural reflex from an anticipated strike without having the impact. You can get someone to double up, hands to groin, chin out just by snapping the hammerfist and popping the gi near the groin. I vary in my natural response to pain, taking a groin shot and walking off seemingly unphased so I can curl up in a corner one time and the next time dropping to my knees. However, the immediate reflex is usually the same which is driven by my anticipation to the strike.

    Something to consider, is it important to hit just hard enough for a given response? When in a SD situation will you measure out your techniques to be just enough force? Are all opponents going to react the exact same way? I may drop on the ground crying for mommy when you pop my nose, when others might laugh and say "Is that all you got?".
    "Many years of training is wasted by one night of drinking"-oldslowguy

    "Pain may be a cruel master..........but it breeds diligent pupils."

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    "Cry in the dojo, laugh on the street" means, take your beatings from your friends in the school, not from strangers. I tell my grade-school students "yeah I know that hurt but Jimmy here has been practicing how to punch for 2 years. Do you think anyone in your class can hit as hard as Jimmy? They can't. So if somebody does punch you, it might hurt but you know that you've been hit much harder before, you will survive, and so you can laugh it off and get on with defending yourself."
    Well said. I frequently think about the irony in that saying. I took up martial arts as a kid to prevent getting beat up (or at least winning a few outcomes) only instead the beatings were more frequent (2x a week, 3+ hrs a night) and worse than anything I got in school. But nothing's more enjoyable than saying, "you hit like a girl".
    "Many years of training is wasted by one night of drinking"-oldslowguy

    "Pain may be a cruel master..........but it breeds diligent pupils."

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    Very True. Thank you.

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    Quote Originally Posted by oldslowguy View Post
    Well said. I frequently think about the irony in that saying. I took up martial arts as a kid to prevent getting beat up (or at least winning a few outcomes) only instead the beatings were more frequent (2x a week, 3+ hrs a night) and worse than anything I got in school. But nothing's more enjoyable than saying, "you hit like a girl".
    it is ironic. also training with a hangover led directly to less time in bars, which also means odds of getting in a fight go way down too.
    -David C
    http://www.kungfubooksonline.com

    "...while you guys are arguing, I'm on the grind."
    - an anonymous brick puncher

    "If you don't ask the right questions, I can't give you the answers, and if you don't know the right question to ask, you're not ready for the answers"
    -Ed Parker Sr.

    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

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    Default Re: Body Responses

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    it is ironic. also training with a hangover led directly to less time in bars, which also means odds of getting in a fight go way down too.
    I was always a slow learner when it came to the bottle, no matter how often I swore to the 'porcelain god' something along the lines of "never again".
    "Many years of training is wasted by one night of drinking"-oldslowguy

    "Pain may be a cruel master..........but it breeds diligent pupils."

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