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Thread: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

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    Default Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    I'm posting this as a favor to any future readers who find themselves taking an absurd amount of over-the-counter (OTC) pain meds to cope with the creaks and groans we get from kenpo training and/or workplace injuries related to our hobby activities.

    A lontime friend of mine recently found out that her M.D.passed away. He had a lung infection that he progressively sickened from, then just died. She has a disability, and I've gone in with her as interpreter and advocate, so I met him a few times as well...nice guy...always tan, in good shape, etc. His best friend is the pulmonary doc who did her recent sleep study; he's a lung specialist,and could have saved the guys life if he just spoke up.

    Aside from questions I have about why an MD didn't put himself on meds he would have freely prescribed his patients, or go to a hospital he would have freely sent others to (that's the alternative health care suspicion/paranois in me), the thing that struck me most was simply: Why didn't he just take care of himself, if he knew better and saw it coming?

    It turns out, this was a bit like one alcoholic questioning the denial of another while having a drink in his hands. My own health had been declining, with signs of liver dysfunction,that I had been ignoring because I didn't want to deal with the consequences of acknowledging them.

    I originally hurt my back at 12 years of age. Badly. By 14, I was getting these huge tubs of robaxin and vicodin from FHP (an HMO). At around 17, I opted not to take the prescription drugs unless I was having a really bad night. So I switched to OTC pain mediators. Aspirin, Tylenol,and later as they came onto the market,ibuprofen, naprosyn, etc.

    I would take about 6 in the AM 1/2 hour before rolling out of bed, then continue taking 3-4 tabs, every 2-3 hours. Been doing that for a long, long time. I refused to stop my martial arts training hobbies, and instead stepped them up, aggravating the condition in my back even worse.So I stayed on this regimen for a really long time.

    It's estimated that there are over 15,000 hospitalizations caused by OTC pain meds each year,with nearly as many deaths. While some are from suicide attempts,many are simply from too much for too long, often clashing with other health concerns or medications.

    So I cut back over the year 2006 (3tabs in AM, 3 at lunch, and 3 at night...it was bare-bones for me), until I was in a nasty car wreck at the end of September. It blew a couple discs in my neck, and the suckers are abutting several nerve roots, causing deeply boring aching pain, electical shock-like pain, burning sensations on the skin, and near-total numbness over some patches on my shoulders and arms. I should go for a surgical consult, but having worked as a PA at an ortho surgeons, I've seen these procedures fail way more than work, and decided to let the tincture of time and alternative methods take their course (if I start showing signs or symptoms of cauda equina, I'll go...but absent that extreme...).

    BUT...it meant back on the pain meds...both prescription, and (of course) OTC.

    I've become a mass consumer of Advil, taking it throughout the day, evening, and waking in misery in the middle of the night to take a whole bunch more, at least twice a night. Solidly since the wreck.

    A little bit back, I started noticing an irritated feeling along the ribs in my right upper abdominal area and around the flank. The lower ribs along the costal margin there had started to migrate outward, and the immediate area became quite tender to dog paws and the like. I ignored it, and kept taking my advil. Some other liver dysfunction symptoms started creeping up,and I ignored them too. Why? Because not taking my OTC and prescribed meds would mean being in a crapload of pain, and not doing anything about it but enduring...sucks the life right out of you to merely endure.

    Anyway, my right bread-basket ribs are now visibly distended in comparison to the left. There is tenderness to palpation along the inferior borders of the liver, which now extend approx 2-3 inches below the inferior costal margin. I've had some bloodwork done, and the results are consistent with a pissed off liver. In short, my liver's swollen and angry about all the advil I've been on.

    So, after the public service for my friends MD, I tossed the bottles, emptied my pockets (I have habitually had a pocket full of advil since I was 16), and decided not to become the next "casualty who should have known better...why didn't he do something about it". The bad news is we really need our livers..they do an awful lot of things in the body, and we really can't survive without them. The good news is the liver is amenable to changes in health habits, and medication-induced liver inflammation reduces 6-8 weeks after cessation of the irritating substance.

    The pain sucks. This is the first I've been on nothing for about 28 years, and I recently started my exercise rehab program for the accident...which irritates injured tissues, causing greater discomfort in the short run (but improves structure and function in the long run, which is where I'm investing my efforts and energy). My neck and back ache deeply; my left shoulder is on fire even as we speak from nerve damage in my neck; my right shoulder is darn near unusable from irrritation to torn rotator cuff muscles I'm working on strengthening, and my right knee is complaining so much, the muscles up and down the leg are recruiting in referral patterns and adding to the discomfort.

    But "pain" is better than "dead". And having seen people who have gone from liver failure, it's a lousy way to go...especially when the causes are preventable.

    So...keep exercising; it helps release natural pain mediators, and toned muscles are more resilient to insult than non-toned ones. Eat alkalinizing foods; pain increases acidity via the stress response, which in turn lowers the threshold to pain...break the cycle by eating lots of green stuff. Most importantly, put the advil down, and nobody gets hurt.

    Some things are just worth doing the hard way.

    D.
    Last edited by Dr. Dave in da house; 03-04-2007 at 05:24 PM. Reason: spelling
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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Dr. Dave, I want to thank you for this post. Sadly, I can relate, line by line. I'm looking at changing to Taiji as an alternative to giving up the martial arts right now, but even the slow, measured movements can be excruciating. Headaches, numbness, burning, cold, ache, pulling/tearing/knotts, and just plain ow! Like you, I have taken OTC pain meds by the bottle, mixing them as well. I'm learning ways to deal with this right now, so my consumption is way down.

    Hate to hear anyone else going through stuff like this. But appreciate your sharing your experiences and expertise. It helps.

    Dan C
    There are things that are worth knowing for their own sake, worth finding for the pure joy of discovery.

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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Thank you both for sharing your experiences....

    - Ceicei
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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Doctor Dave,

    No sympathy here... Only empathy ...

    I'm hobbling around recently from some old, very old, hip injury that seems to come back and haunt me every couple of years. It is debilitating enough with the pain and electrical shocking and burning to keep me flat on my back until it diminuates. Fortunately, my Chiropracter is a man of great patience, for I am a wienie when I hurt.

    I stick pretty much to aspirin, and keep it down to about 3 - 4 325 mg pills every 4 hours. I'm not so sure that really does much, but it feels useful, more or less.

    This kind of all ties in with a theory of mine. Man was not meant to practice martial arts for as long as he lives. The ways and methods are far too violent and hard on the body. Perhaps, less so, when one is deaing with things like Tai Chi (called Old Man's Kung fu in China), or perhaps something structured like SL-4. It's like fighting or practicing the fight is a young person's game. One that we pay dearly for as we become older.

    In the olden days we didn't all (generally) live that long, so we didn't really know the cumulative effects of constant practice, most especially, when it's mixed with all of life's other little physical foibles, over an extended period. I think we're finding out now.

    Good luck with it, and you might see if you can hook up with a truly great accupuncturist.

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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Dr. Dave, I'm updating my notes again and thought I'd revive this thread. You have some good info here for everyone in the arts to consider. Again, thanks for sharing your experience and expertise.

    Dan C
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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Okay -- I'm throwing this out for those who are in pain and take a lot of medications ........ coffee enemas.

    They will detox your liver very quickly and will make your other pain medications work more effectively.

    Sounds gross, but I had cancer and they saved my life.

    More info if requested.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    Okay -- I'm throwing this out for those who are in pain and take a lot of medications ........ coffee enemas.

    They will detox your liver very quickly and will make your other pain medications work more effectively.

    Sounds gross, but I had cancer and they saved my life.

    More info if requested.

    --Amy
    Dang, Starbucks should get right on this....
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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    Dang, Starbucks should get right on this....
    Yeah, but, who cleans the stools?

    Amy, I've heard of coffee enemas before. I know you have talked about them here as well. If you don't mind, I'd apreciate as much info and references as you can give. I'm about desperate enough ..., maybe I'll see you guys at Starbucks in a couple of days.

    Dan ( ! ) C
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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Here's info I pulled from several sources on the internet, plus my own information. It's really really effective. --Amy

    Why it works
    The effects of a coffee enema are different than a saline enema. The most important difference between a saline enema and a coffee enema is the presence of caffeine in the coffee. Caffeine, theophylline and theobromine, combine to stimulate the relaxation of smooth muscles causing dilatation of blood vessels and bile ducts. The effects of having a coffee enema are not the same as drinking coffee. The veins of the anus are very close to the surface of the tissue. The caffeine absorbed differently than it is in when coffee is drunk. It pulls the toxins out through osmosis. If you have liver problems, start with one a day and do them in the morning as you will feel a rush of energy. Itís from the release of toxins, not the absorption of the caffeine. After awhile, you can do them at night if you canít sleep and they will aid in sleep. You can do them as often as every 4 hours.


    Liver benefits
    Additionally, coffee has a chemical makeup that is stimulative. The enzymes in coffee, known as palmitates, help the liver carry away the toxins in bile acid. The coffee is absorbed into the hemorrhoidal vein, then taken up to the liver by the portal vein. With the bile ducts dilated, bile carries toxins away to the gastro-intestinal tract. Simultaneously, peristaltic activity is encouraged because of the flooding of the lower colon. Thus, when the colon is evacuated, the toxins and bile are carried out of the body.


    Concerns
    Many people are concerned that the body will become 'addicted' to the enema. This fear is unfounded. The bowels can continue to function on their own after enemas are discontinued.

    1. Using 3 tbl. of coffee per 32oz of fluid, bring the coffee to a boil. Boil for 3 minutes then simmer for 15 minutes. Strain using a very fine sieve. Allow this liquid to cool to body temperature (98.6 F). It should feel comfortable to the touch. (I boil less water than that, then fill up the rest with cooler water to save time.) You may also want to add some potassium to the coffee to decrease any gas bubbles.

    2. Pour this liquid into the enema bag, clamping the tube as you pour. Lubricate the nozzle with KY or vasaline. 32 oz. total liquid.

    3. Hang the enema bag between 1 1/2 to 2 feet above the floor in the bathroom. The higher the bag, the faster the speed of intake into the colon.

    4. Place a large towel on the floor with a pillow and a book. Lie on your right side, with your legs curled into your abdomen. Itís important to lie on your right side to get the fluid moving towards your liver.

    5. Take deep breaths and slowly insert the nozzle several inches into the rectum. If it is inserted too quickly it may bend or become kinked inside the colon. A gentle rotating motion can be used to insert. Move the enema bag higher or lower to adjust the flow of the solution into the colon.

    6. Retain the solution for about 12 to 15 minutes. Lie quietly (without a lot of moving around) You may hear or feel a squirting of fluid below your right rib cage. Many people believe that this is sensation is due to the release of toxin-laden bile. After 15 min., release it (not onto the floor. lol).

    7. The enema syringe should be sterilized after each use. It can be boiled or washed thoroughly with soap and water, then soaked in a solution of 4 drops grapefruit seed extract and 2 cups water.

    Troubleshooting
    • You may not be able to hold all the fluid in with one enema. In this case, the procedure can be repeated two or more times in sequence, making sure to empty the bowel in between. This is usually only a problem the first time or if it has been awhile in between.
    • If you have cramping, the solution is flowing too quickly. Pinch the enema tube to stop the flow and lower the bag. Do not continue until the cramps have subsided.
    • If the solution is flowing unevenly, the enema tube may be bent or kinked. Slowly and gently pull it partly out and then insert it again several inches. Itís important to only go in a few inches Ė more than that and it wonít be working the lower bowel.
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Quote Originally Posted by thedan View Post
    Yeah, but, who cleans the stools?Dan ( ! ) C
    isn't that what the coffee is for !!!

    I'm afraid to imagine what your flatulence might be like post-treatment. probably a lot like my Mom's kitchen about 7am I hate to admit.

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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Pain Management is an area of US medical care that IMO really needs a bit of attention. I think the situation is improving. Allopathic practitioners (doctors and nurses) are paying more attention to patients in pain, naturopathic doctors (chiropractors) are making better use of ultrasonics and cold lasers...therapy that helps fix the problem and not just treat the symptoms

    But we have a long way to go....

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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    Pain Management is an area of US medical care that IMO really needs a bit of attention. I think the situation is improving. Allopathic practitioners (doctors and nurses) are paying more attention to patients in pain, naturopathic doctors (chiropractors) are making better use of ultrasonics and cold lasers...therapy that helps fix the problem and not just treat the symptoms

    But we have a long way to go....
    Boy, you ain't kiddin'. Meluvvacoldlaser, but dang do they cost an arm and a leg.

    D.
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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    Okay -- I'm throwing this out for those who are in pain and take a lot of medications ........ coffee enemas.

    They will detox your liver very quickly and will make your other pain medications work more effectively.

    Sounds gross, but I had cancer and they saved my life.

    More info if requested.

    --Amy
    Are there benefits for the healthy person? I am healthy, but I am sure there are unknown toxins in my system. Just curious if you have any information on this.
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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    Okay -- I'm throwing this out for those who are in pain and take a lot of medications ........ coffee enemas.

    They will detox your liver very quickly and will make your other pain medications work more effectively.

    Sounds gross, but I had cancer and they saved my life.

    More info if requested.

    --Amy

    I had very high liver enzymes a few years ago. I tried handfuls of supplements, a vegetarian diet, and other holistic things. I tried for a year and had my levels checked mointhly. The levels where slowly dropping. I finally decided to do the coffee enema recommended by my chiropractor. I did them twice daily. My liver was fine in a month. If you have not done it it feels like a shower on the inside!
    Hands on Healer

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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Angel View Post
    Are there benefits for the healthy person? I am healthy, but I am sure there are unknown toxins in my system. Just curious if you have any information on this.
    Healthy is a relative term. Modern definitions of health amount to little more than "currently free of symptoms indicating the presence of any major disease". Meanwhile, subclinical syndromes build up in the body, taking place in the background. The top killers in our nation don't show symptoms until their about ripe enough to pop.

    Heart disease...1st symptom for almost half the people who have it is death. Cancer...symptom free until it registers as an issue, but both have been growing in us for years.

    Coffee flushes and liver detoxification are a great way of ridding your body of cumulative gunk. Your immune system can be busy doing one of two things, but not both: It can combat the effects of accumulated toxins, or it can combat invaders & mutants (infection and cancerous mutations). The more we take care of getting the garbage and sewage out of our bodies so our immune systems don't have to wage a pointless battle against it, the better it can focus on keeping bad guys in check.

    By our teenage year, the average American has consumed so much garbage, that our guts have started to foul. Fouled gut contents drift into the blood, creating a nasty living environment for the cells throughout our entire body, and distracting our immune system from it's real job. The distracted immune system goes into hyper-drive, and starts attacking everything. Inclusing vascular walls, etc., starting the atherosclerotic process. Law of Halves again...by the time the average American is 30 years old, half of us will have a 50% occlusion of the coronary artery already. The process leading to these obstructions is an inflammatory one...the immune system reacting to the alarms set off in your body by the presence of sewage backwashing from the fouled gut into the blood & lymph.

    The Liver is the major filter of the blood, screening out naughty bits and attempting to either detoxify them by chemically neutering them (so to speak), or ejecting them...packaging them for emmission from the body. It is a helluva busy organ, but we manage to find ways through the Standard American Diet (S.A.D.) to overpower it nonetheless.

    Coffee enemas, despite the nasty connotations of placing a morning beverage where the sun don't shine, are an excellent way of detoxifying the fouled gut, and prompting the body's emission responses to clear out the accumulated sewage.

    We all get cancer about 10,000 times a day. A cell divides, it's new sister cell clone is a mutation, and the immune system flags it for destruction and destroys it. An UNDISTRACTED immune system working optimally, I should say. It is also the job of the immune system to envelope the sewage floating around in our bloodstreams...to bind it up, so it has minimal toxic interactions with our functional tissues. And it can only do BOTH jobs so well, for so long. Then we either need to help it, or it craps out on us. Amy kicked cancer by flushing the toxins out of her body, so that her previously-distracted immune system could get back to focusing on what mattered...what it was made for; bouncing mutants from the club.

    You and I, sitting here reading and writing this, have gotten cancer, and beaten it more than a hundred times. If you want to be able to do this in years to come, get an early start on helping out your body by clearing out the trash. Aside form the mental wierdness of coffee enemas, they have a history of working quite well. They work better for prolonged good health if you don't wait for a disease state to ensorcle you.

    Be good,

    Dave
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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    You are all about to become immortalized in my notes. ( ! )
    (How's that for a smiley?)

    Dan (just don't tell th' neighbors what I'm doin') C
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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Dr. Dave?

    To fill in the gaps in my own knowledge...with your experience as a naturopath, what do you see a coffee enema doing that a 1-2 day fast cannot do?

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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Not to insert myself here, but a coffee enema pulls the toxins out of the blood as it moves to the liver (or from the liver, not sure), but it pulls them out through osmosis.

    A fast doesn't do that.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    Dr. Dave?

    To fill in the gaps in my own knowledge...with your experience as a naturopath, what do you see a coffee enema doing that a 1-2 day fast cannot do?
    Amy pretty much nailed it in the short form. Fasting gives a chance for some clearence to occur...for the body to have a chance to switch gears from digestion, to some other housekeeping functions. What it doesn't do is the extraction.

    When working with clients, we do a combo of the two...a 3-day cleansing fast, culminating with a liver flush. My thoughts are that the freed up energy of the fast allows the body to better focus on straining the blood of asundry schmutz, while the cleanse at the end rinses the strainer.

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  29. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dr. Dave in da house For This Useful Post:

    Carol (04-04-2007),sifuroy (04-04-2007),thedan (04-04-2007)

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    Default Re: Drug-Induced Hepatomegaly...or..."Put the Advil down, and nobody gets hurt".

    Thank you Amy and thank you Dave very much! I appreciate all the info.

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drug induced hepatomegaly

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if you continue to take ibuprofen and have hepatosplenomegaly

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