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Thread: Forms training

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    Default Forms training

    What are the benefits of training in our Kenpo forms? Why do it?

    thanks

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    Default Re: Forms training

    Kenpo forms do not represent a fight. They teach us the rules and principles, that everything has an opposite and a reverse, and give us an example.

    Kenpo forms are a categorized library of techniques and basics to synchronize the upper and lower body, to work together as a unit.

    Kenpo forms are fun.

    Kenpo forms are a decent workout.

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    Default Re: Forms training

    forms provide a platform for training the principles of and mechanics of kenpo in a solo environment - i.e. when there is noone else to train with.

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    Default Re: Forms training

    Greetings.

    Kata = Formal Exercise.

    There are certain movements, postures, Indexes and sequences that are fundamental training and must be practiced often, diligently and uniformly to make sure they are ingrained effectively into the neuromuscular database.

    You will notice that up until short 3, that is what being done with the Forms. Also, with the technique sequences, when trained As if forms, taking care of optimizing movements for measurable effectiveness and efficiency, training the proprioceptives and the relationships of the anatomy in terms of the geometry of your own body...

    then you are getting some good training.

    Or not. That's just my lowly opinion.

    Enjoy!

    Juan M. Mercado

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    Default Re: Forms training

    They assist you in developing your flow between techniques from different angles.

    They are a "garbage can" which is used to throw away bad habits.

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    Default Re: Forms training

    They provide a means to work the basics of the current skill level in motion
    Brad Marshall SP
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    Default Re: Forms training

    I think that forms in a sense are "self correcting." They can help someone clean up basics and also force practice of basics that you normally might not choose to train on your own. They also catagorize "themes" with in the curriculum that it is nice to re-visit.
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    Default Re: Forms training

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
    I think that forms in a sense are "self correcting." They can help someone clean up basics and also force practice of basics that you normally might not choose to train on your own. They also catagorize "themes" with in the curriculum that it is nice to re-visit.
    Good call bro!
    I think you'n I have talked about this in the past. (go fig'r)

    When you go along in the form, if you get something wrong at step 5, step 6 will be off and step 7 way off. I agree, working in our forms helps us get specific angles down pat and be able to "Feel" that they are right or just a little off, allowing us to be able to self correct. I was hoping someone would make that point.

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    Default Re: Forms training

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward View Post
    Kenpo forms are fun.

    Kenpo forms are a decent workout.

    Kenpo forms are a categorized library of techniques and basics to synchronize the upper and lower body, to work together as a unit.

    It's almost like a haiku.
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
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    Thumbs up Re: Forms training

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    Good call bro!
    I think you'n I have talked about this in the past. (go fig'r)

    When you go along in the form, if you get something wrong at step 5, step 6 will be off and step 7 way off. I agree, working in our forms helps us get specific angles down pat and be able to "Feel" that they are right or just a little off, allowing us to be able to self correct. I was hoping someone would make that point.

    Your Brother
    John
    Well I think to be fair I probably stole "self-correcting" from you in a discussion about stance set II lol

    I really think it is a way to "fit the pattern" in regards to someone's movement. I have used the forms to correct problems in my own basics, I also try to use it to help others I train with.

    I used to hate forms starting out and it seems the longer I am at this the more I enjoy them.
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    Default Re: Forms training

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
    I used to hate forms starting out and it seems the longer I am at this the more I enjoy them.
    Me too!
    I used to be of the mind that "I'll never defend myself with a 'form'. " But then I grew up.

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    Default Re: Forms training

    I love to do forms. They suit certain aspects of my perfectionistic nature.

    I like the logic of them and the way they flow.

    I made up a bunch of katas using the self-defense techniques. I have two each for third and second brown and one each below that, but the browns are the only ones I practice.

    By practicing the brown belt katas I made up, I can practice all of my brown belt techniques in about 6 minutes or less. And since the entire technique is being used, I get a lot of good practice time by banging each one like I would if I were just practicing.

    I still prefer to bang them on a body, but if I don't have one handy, katas are great too. Keeps up the flow of the techniques and helps me remember them.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Forms training

    I think a key thing that is developed through forms training is continous body movement and fluid body trainsitions. The amount of times you have to transition to a different angle is far greater than within the individual techniques. This allows you to develop the "DETAILS" of the techniques by way of the forms... examples being settling, marriage of gravity, body fusion, timing and the list goes on and on.

    Techniques are the combative application of principles and body dynamics...Forms are a training tool to develop the nuances of body dynamics and principle understanding...and expression.

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    Default Re: Forms training

    I used to hate forms starting out and it seems the longer I am at this the more I enjoy them.
    I am on my second runs of American Kenpo. When I was 19, I first joined a Kenpo school. I hated forms. I just wanted to zip throguh all of the techniques to get my next belt. I left when I was an advanced green belt.

    Now I am 40. I recently joined an American Kenpo school. This time around, I see alot of value in the forms that I never saw before. I used to be one of those who gave Kenpo the bad rap of slap fighting. Attempting to do the techniques as fast as possible without giving my stance a second thought. I used to think that the techniques were the chops, kicks punckes and so on.

    Now I understand that like a house, a technique is built on a solid foundation. That solid foundation is a stance. To me the forms have become ways to solidify my stance through transitions. Proper weight shifts from block to strike to kick or moving from one direction to another with proper weight shifts and stances. To me this is what the forms do.

    I think tht like almost every thing else in American Kenpo, that the benefits of forms are individual. For me, my benefit is to solidify my stances and manuevers. For some it may be to correct their hand positions in a block or a strike or to correct posture on a kick.

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    Default Re: Forms training

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    What are the benefits of training in our Kenpo forms? Why do it?
    Depends on the "intention" of how you do them.

    Without proper "intention" forms are totally worthless and being taught them without "intention" is WORSE than not learning them.

    I was correcting a fellow today that learned them as "memorized sets" and not as real targets that you crush with strong emotional content.

    Unfortunately he's learned 12 years of kenpo with no proper Intent being taught to him.

    And he is getting it now.

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    Default Re: Forms training

    Greetings.

    So there is an Outer Focus (Crushing with Strong Emotional Content... I really like that!) for forms...

    as there is an Inner Focus (Maximal Performance of the Intent of each Movement in respect of Self Geometry).

    And each has sub foci... so it all comes down to intent, I guess.

    Juan M. Mercado

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    Default Re: Forms training

    Quote Originally Posted by John M. La Tourrette View Post
    Depends on the "intention" of how you do them.

    Without proper "intention" forms are totally worthless and being taught them without "intention" is WORSE than not learning them.

    I was correcting a fellow today that learned them as "memorized sets" and not as real targets that you crush with strong emotional content.

    Unfortunately he's learned 12 years of kenpo with no proper Intent being taught to him.

    And he is getting it now.
    Thank you. Beneficial forms practice is absolutely predicated upon having and developing proper intent. Without proper intent, forms practice can actually degenerate into a hindrance to proper training. (I feel so strongly about this that I just had to repeat what you posted, Dr LaTourrette).

    Thank you again.

    Jim

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    Default Re: Forms training

    I was always told by various members of my studio that forms illustrate the "Ideal Phase", a place where every tiny movement can be prone to meticulous scrutiny (usually by oneself) and brought to as close to perfection as possible. In forms, your imaginary opponents are your exact height and weight, they always move where you want them to, etc.
    That is the main purpose of a form to my understanding: perfecting your basics and illustrating the many principles of motion with flawless execution, despite a slight lack of practicality (you would never start performing long 3 when somebody comes in and attempts to choke you, haha).

    This is in stark contrast to techniques and sparring, the former being the "what if" phase, where your opponents are all different and the otherwise perfect basics have to be altered (insert The Equation Formula here) for every scenario, this is much closer to actually being attacked however it is still scripted and your opponents are minimally offensive but hopefully not simply submissive. Sparring is the where things are altered even further from textbook perfection and truly conditioned to suit the situation; it's not pre-determined and you are forced to think like you really would have to on the streets.

    All of these things working in conjunction with each other is like any other fundamental triangle: they each rely and supplement each other in a balanced harmony.

    THIS is the impression I am under concerning the use of Forms.

    -Brian

    P.S. First post, whoo! Excited to be part of the forum.

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    Default Re: Forms training

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiralOfOurDiv View Post
    I was always told by various members of my studio that forms illustrate the "Ideal Phase", a place where every tiny movement can be prone to meticulous scrutiny (usually by oneself) and brought to as close to perfection as possible. In forms, your imaginary opponents are your exact height and weight, they always move where you want them to, etc.
    That is the main purpose of a form to my understanding: perfecting your basics and illustrating the many principles of motion with flawless execution, despite a slight lack of practicality (you would never start performing long 3 when somebody comes in and attempts to choke you, haha).

    This is in stark contrast to techniques and sparring, the former being the "what if" phase, where your opponents are all different and the otherwise perfect basics have to be altered (insert The Equation Formula here) for every scenario, this is much closer to actually being attacked however it is still scripted and your opponents are minimally offensive but hopefully not simply submissive. Sparring is the where things are altered even further from textbook perfection and truly conditioned to suit the situation; it's not pre-determined and you are forced to think like you really would have to on the streets.

    All of these things working in conjunction with each other is like any other fundamental triangle: they each rely and supplement each other in a balanced harmony.

    THIS is the impression I am under concerning the use of Forms.

    -Brian

    P.S. First post, whoo! Excited to be part of the forum.
    What an excellent first post. It will be good to hear more from you.
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    Default Re: Forms training

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiralOfOurDiv View Post
    I was always told by various members of my studio that forms illustrate the "Ideal Phase", a place where every tiny movement can be prone to meticulous scrutiny (usually by oneself) and brought to as close to perfection as possible. In forms, your imaginary opponents are your exact height and weight, they always move where you want them to, etc.
    That is the main purpose of a form to my understanding: perfecting your basics and illustrating the many principles of motion with flawless execution, despite a slight lack of practicality (you would never start performing long 3 when somebody comes in and attempts to choke you, haha).

    This is in stark contrast to techniques and sparring, the former being the "what if" phase, where your opponents are all different and the otherwise perfect basics have to be altered (insert The Equation Formula here) for every scenario, this is much closer to actually being attacked however it is still scripted and your opponents are minimally offensive but hopefully not simply submissive. Sparring is the where things are altered even further from textbook perfection and truly conditioned to suit the situation; it's not pre-determined and you are forced to think like you really would have to on the streets.

    All of these things working in conjunction with each other is like any other fundamental triangle: they each rely and supplement each other in a balanced harmony.

    THIS is the impression I am under concerning the use of Forms.

    -Brian

    P.S. First post, whoo! Excited to be part of the forum.
    This is a very good post.

    People think that the self defense techniques are the focus of the system.
    True to a point. However to complete the application of the principles, one needs the rest of the curriculum.

    I look forward to your post.

    My Respects
    Brad Marshall SP
    KKFI

    trgodbm@yahoo.com

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