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Thread: Training for multiple assailants

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    bujuts is offline
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    Default Training for multiple assailants

    I thought I'd just start a topic from scratch. The topic is multiple assailants and how you train for them. What are some of the specific things you teach and/or practice in regards to:

    1. Maintaining visual clarity whilst in engagement.
    2. Attacking pre-emptively.
    3. Strategies
    4. Heigth, width, and depth zones (they get bigger when two or more are close to you).
    5. Shielding
    6. Covering and dealing with blindspots.
    7. What the techniques offer you, or what they don't.
    8. What the Sets offer you, or what they don't.
    9. Foot work.
    10. Developing spontaneity in your and your students' kenpo (not sparring).
    11. Realism in training.
    12. Weapons (with / without / against, your choice)
    13. Any other pertinent topic you want to bring up.

    So, what do you do, where do you feel these should become part of a students cirriculum (if at all), and what are your expectations of a kenpoist for a given level of experience?

    Look forward to any and all responses. Salute,

    Steven Brown
    Universal Kenpo Federation

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    Default Re: Training for multiple assailants

    I think environment really plays a big part in multiple attacks. Keeping one opponent between you and the others can help for awhile. But, if you have nowhere to maneuver, they can pile up on you pretty fast.
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    bujuts is offline
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    Default Re: Training for multiple assailants

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael151 View Post
    I think environment really plays a big part in multiple attacks. Keeping one opponent between you and the others can help for awhile. But, if you have nowhere to maneuver, they can pile up on you pretty fast.
    Thanks for the reply. Do you have any specific training drills, exercises, etc. to engrain these things, that you teach and/or train?

    Cheers,

    Steven Brown
    UKF

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    Default Re: Training for multiple assailants

    For a start, try sparring against multiple opponents - start with 2, and work your way to 3 or 4. It's not easy...but well worth the effort!
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    Default Re: Training for multiple assailants

    [quote=bujuts;39109]I thought I'd just start a topic from scratch. The topic is multiple assailants and how you train for them. What are some of the specific things you teach and/or practice in regards to:

    10. Developing spontaneity in your and your students' kenpo (not sparring)/

    We have a drill whereby we have students turn their back to potential attacker(s) and let the attacker(s) determine what to throw at the defender. We will generally start with only one attacker and work up to more. It's nice to see students just react and deal with the situation.

    We use sparring against mutliple attackers to help with dealing with the dynamic of more than one attacker. You learn pretty quickly to use your opponents as shields against each other.

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    Wink Re: Training for multiple assailants

    In Sam-Pai we have a drill like this one but the attack is from all sides

    execkenpo I like this drill a lot "We have a drill whereby we have students turn their back to potential attacker(s) and let the attacker(s) determine what to throw at the defender. We will generally start with only one attacker and work up to more."
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    Default Re: Training for multiple assailants

    Quote Originally Posted by SPK,Grasshopper View Post
    In Sam-Pai we have a drill like this one but the attack is from all sides

    execkenpo I like this drill a lot "We have a drill whereby we have students turn their back to potential attacker(s) and let the attacker(s) determine what to throw at the defender. We will generally start with only one attacker and work up to more."
    Thanks, I wish I could take credit for it. It does get the adrenaline doing when you tuirn around and see 4 or 5 guys coming at you all at once.

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    Default Re: Training for multiple assailants

    Quote Originally Posted by bujuts View Post
    The topic is multiple assailants and how you train for them. So, what do you do, where do you feel these should become part of a students cirriculum (if at all), and what are your expectations of a kenpoist for a given level of experience?
    Most people think of multiple attack training as being attacked by two or three assailants. This is about the maximum number you could realistically train to handle, and even then you are only improving the odds. What about training for mass attacks, like a riot? Your best "weapon" in these situations is your ability to think and act under fire- to bring order to chaos and make snap decisions when the stakes are high. How about if you have a few friends with you- do you train to work together? Or the opposite situation where you outnumber the opponent(s)? It's not as easy as you might think, especially since we are presumably moral enough that we are useing our numerical superiority to control a situation rather than to create one.

    I'm going to suggest that the best way to train for this is to do it. Do things that require you to operate at max efectiveness and efficiency under stress and to bring order out of chaos. Some of the best training and experience you can get for this is to volunteer for emergency services. Police reserves, fire, ambulance, and even hazzzardous materials incident redponse. You have to work as an individual and as part of a team where the stakes are high for you and others. Not usually fighting, though any of them can and do sometimes require you to subdue people who are violent, under the influence, suicidal, or just plain crazy. We have a popular concert venue not too far away, and there are people (some martial artists) who volunteer to help talk down or subdue patrons who get a little too wacked out.

    Emergency services also opens doors for you to train with other agencies or departments. I used to volunteer to work with dog handlers to train their "partners." Good experience if you ever need to escape from a mob.

    Your job, or a part second job, is another place to look. Bouncers are an obviouse choice. But many industries have haz-mat and fire crews. I was on the haz-mat response crew team at one place I worked, and the training was intense. We also had to handle a few situations that were pretty wild. Definately hones your skills in working under stress and chaos.

    Other options are sports and competition. Football and basketball are obviouse. But even things like handball or raquetball teach you to deal with your opponent and the environment, and often as a team. And you get in shape. Or how about car racing? High paced mass attack with "weapons", when you think about it.

    Competitive combat shooting is another one that gives you experience under stress, and is a martial science in tis own rite. Or paintball- obviouse cross over skills in mass attack situations.

    The main thing is to actually get experience operating under the levels of stress you are likely to encounter in the situatons you are talking about training for.

    Sorry I got a little verbose. But I have to keep up with Russ now.

    Dan C

    edit: added "Your best "weapon" in these situations is your ability to think and act under fire- to bring order to chaos and make snap decisions when the stakes are high" for clarity of the point.
    Last edited by thedan; 12-14-2006 at 10:11 AM.
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    Default Re: Training for multiple assailants

    Quote Originally Posted by bujuts View Post
    Thanks for the reply. Do you have any specific training drills, exercises, etc. to engrain these things, that you teach and/or train?

    Cheers,

    Steven Brown
    UKF
    I apologize for it taking me so long to reply. I think that EPAK takes this scenario into consideration from the beginning. From covering out after executing a tech, to angles of cancellation to the way we step up the circle. I don't know if there is a sure-fire way to deal with multiple assailants. But every little bit helps.
    One drill I like is opening up some of your techs. For example, two guys approach you; the one the left throws the big "John Wayne" right roundhouse and you start into Five Swords. Your left palm-heel can stay on it's path through attacker 1's face and be used to check/block/parry attacker 2's punch, and, the uppercut, instead of hitting attacker 1, could easily rise up and become a vertical punch to the face/jaw of attacker 2.
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    Default Re: Training for multiple assailants

    Realistically speaking, if you're being attacked by 3 or more individuals you will have to ....take one or more of them out. In other words, no "kid gloves". You can not realistically expect to keep multiple assailants at bay. You will have to incorporate some nasty maneuvers like throat shots to immediately incapacitate them to ensure you walk away from the conflict.

    There are "basics" involved with multiple attackers just as with anything else. One drill we do to develop these skills is to have one student to stand to the front and one to the rear of the student working the drill. The "rear" has a focus mit and the "front" a kicking shield. The drill is pretty simple really. First, execute a rear crossover with a back knuckle strike to the focus mit, then "explode" out of the twist stance executing a side kick to the kicking shield. One thing to keep in mind is to "check" the "front" with your forward hand. It's a good habit to get in to. While your "eyes" may be primarily focused on the immediate target, your "checking" hand will "tell" you where the other opponent is.
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