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Thread: Raining Lance

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    Default Raining Lance

    Since we're looking at knife techniques, let's talk about Raining Lance.

    I like this technique better than Thrusting Lance because the first part at least seems very natural.

    Of course, I don't have people trying to stab me too often, so I don't know if this is natural at all.

    Does anyone have any feelings about the effectiveness of this technique?

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    I believe this is a very fictional attack.

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner
    I believe this is a very fictional attack.
    Very 'Psycho' if you ask me.

    Maybe that's where he got it from.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Yeah, but it's fun to play "psycho" every now and then.
    It's been a while since I saw this, but it did feel more natural.
    "Let the wookie win."

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner
    I believe this is a very fictional attack.
    hmmm don't be so sure of that. Perhaps Doc will comment here, but I'm sure I've seen him write in the past that this is a very real and common attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmyLong
    Since we're looking at knife techniques, let's talk about Raining Lance.

    I like this technique better than Thrusting Lance because the first part at least seems very natural.
    I always found it difficult to coordinate the initial defence for raining-lance (that's just me though), but I also believe it's one of the more workable (practical) knife-defences. I don't perceive any of the same problems that we were discussing with Thrusting Lance anyway.

    The issue I do see with these knife-defences is our response after we have gained control, which basically amounts to 1st degree murder. In my opinion this type response has little relevance in today's society and the techniques need revising to offer a 'control and neutralize' aspect which doesn't involve killing somebody.

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    From the Reference Library
    Raining Lance (Front- Right Step-Through Overhead Knife)

    1. An attacker at 12 o'clock comes at you with a right step-through overhead knife attack.

    2. Step your left foot to 10:30 into a left neutral bow to out of the Line of Attack. As you move, execute a right outward parry to the outside of your attacker's right arm.

    3. With the overhead attack still in motion, pivot to your right into a horse stance as your left assists your right and guides the knife into your attacker's right thigh.

    4. Pivot into a left forward bow facing 12 o'clock as you execute a right inward elbow to your attacker's sternum as your left hand pins your attacker's right hand to keep the knife in his thigh.

    5. Have your right hand drop to check your attacker's right hand and knife as your left hand tracks up and executes a palm up tiger's mouth strike to your attacker's throat.

    6. Switch your hands again so your left hand grabs your attacker's testicles as your right hand circles counterclockwise and executes a crab hand pinch (palm facing your attacker) to hook and pinch your attacker's eyes.

    7. Your right foot steps forward into a cat stance facing 12 o'clock as your left hand contours up your attacker's right arm and executes a left inner wrist strike to your attacker's throat. (Your right hand returns to continue pressing the knife into your attacker's right leg.)

    8. Step your right foot to 12 o'clock into a right close kneel as your left wrist hooks onto your attacker's neck and uses their right shoulder as a fulcrum to taken them over your right knee.

    9. Execute a right downward diagonal hammerfist to your attacker's heart. (Your left hand should be pinning and controlling your attacker.

    10. Execute a left palm strike to the right side of your attacker's jaw as your right hand pulls the knife from your attacker's thigh.

    11. From your close kneel, cross out to 7:30.

    There is much we do differently.

    First, in Step 2 - we perform a left inward parry, as we use an extended right arm to form a complementary angle to guide the knife hand down and into the thigh. We never get into a horse stance (on the 1:30 line), but always are in the left neutral bow. As we push the knife into the thigh, the right hand pulls back into the cocked position for the inward elbow.

    Our footwork in this technique is pretty similar to Thundering Hammers, Flashing Wings; with the knees buckling the attackers right leg.

    In Step 6 ... we don't execute a testicle grab, but instead continue to cover the attackers right arm - keep that knife in his leg. Also, we execute a right inward handsword to the bridge of the nose, rolling our hand over to the 'crab pinch'.

    After we have torqued the head down and 'set the table', stretching the attacker over our knee, we strike the left collar bone, not the heart. Then we push the attacker to the ground, and execute a downward diagonal kick to any available target before we leave.

    A fun technique.

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB
    hmmm don't be so sure of that. Perhaps Doc will comment here, but I'm sure I've seen him write in the past that this is a very real and common attack.
    When was the last time you heard of someone getting stabbed in that manner? I never have and neither have any of my law enforcement friends. I did see it in the Chronicles of Riddick though.

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner
    When was the last time you heard of someone getting stabbed in that manner? I never have and neither have any of my law enforcement friends. I did see it in the Chronicles of Riddick though.
    It doesn't seem very common. I know that when I said it seemed natural, I meant the response, not the attack. I like anything that utilizes borrowed force. I figure 'that'll teach 'em.'

    It seems that someone is more likely going to be doing the short slices and thrusts. I don't know. I just got a new knife video while I was at camp, so I'll watch it and let you know if I've learned anything.

    --Amy
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    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Well I posted this clip in the 'Thrusting Lance' thread but nobody seemed to respond to it. But since this thread is on raining lace, it may have more relevance here. so ill repost it

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9TDxEYQTek
    "A warrior's ultimate act is to put down his sword"

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner
    When was the last time you heard of someone getting stabbed in that manner? I never have and neither have any of my law enforcement friends. I did see it in the Chronicles of Riddick though.
    It in was in the news a little while ago. Woman got stabbed directly through the top of the head with a chef's knife. X-ray picture was pretty frightening. Amazingly she survived.

    paging Doc..

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessRising
    Well I posted this clip in the 'Thrusting Lance' thread but nobody seemed to respond to it. But since this thread is on raining lace, it may have more relevance here. so ill repost it

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9TDxEYQTek
    Very interesting video. I've heard about Whitson's counterpoint. Nice to see it in action.

    Remind me not to get in a knife altercation with anyone (especially anyone who is trained in the Filipino systems).
    "Let the wookie win."

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB
    hmmm don't be so sure of that. Perhaps Doc will comment here, but I'm sure I've seen him write in the past that this is a very real and common attack.
    Anyone willing to do the research can find the answer here.

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/

    Overhead stabbing knife assaults represent virtually all knife ATTACKS, according to the UCR complied from every law enforcement agency in the U.S.

    Statistically all other ATTACKS are non-existent. Slashing and underhand thrusting movements tend to be DEFNSIVE and not OFFENSIVE ATTACKS.

    PERSONAL experiences, (or lack thereof) and subsequent opinions, do not necessarily mirror the general reality.
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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    Anyone willing to do the research can find the answer here.

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/

    Overhead stabbing knife assaults represent virtually all knife ATTACKS, according to the UCR complied from every law enforcement agency in the U.S.

    Statistically all other ATTACKS are non-existent. Slashing and underhand thrusting movements tend to be DEFNSIVE and not OFFENSIVE ATTACKS.

    PERSONAL experiences, (or lack thereof) and subsequent opinions, do not necessarily mirror the general reality.
    Doc, I thought that jailhouse shank attacks tend to be underhand strikes from the rear hand with the forward arm possibly knocking the recipient back on their heels.

    My little mini study here in rural ohio is 4 stabbing deaths in 16 years 3 were over head Raining lance like attacks. one was a slice across the neck but that was a man killing a child from behind. the three stabbing deaths were a man killing his ex wife in front of their child (Very violent with dozens of stab wounds), a Man killing his lovers husband as the husband returned home from bowling (He hid in the garage attacking as the husband got out of his car killing him with fewer than 10, more than 5 stabs with an ice pick.) and a mentally ill man stabbing his mother in the chest in order to put her out of her misery (one stab only.) This is a very small series but certainly emphasises that most knife deaths are not from the classic phillipino knife duel that everyone talks about.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpodoc
    Doc, I thought that jailhouse shank attacks tend to be underhand strikes from the rear hand with the forward arm possibly knocking the recipient back on their heels.
    Good obs sir, but even adding incarceration stabbing crime stats results in a statistically miniscule comparison. Although they would seem to be a lot, they don't happen as often as we sometimes think they do.
    My little mini study here in rural ohio is 4 stabbing deaths in 16 years 3 were over head Raining lance like attacks. one was a slice across the neck but that was a man killing a child from behind. the three stabbing deaths were a man killing his ex wife in front of their child (Very violent with dozens of stab wounds), a Man killing his lovers husband as the husband returned home from bowling (He hid in the garage attacking as the husband got out of his car killing him with fewer than 10, more than 5 stabs with an ice pick.) and a mentally ill man stabbing his mother in the chest in order to put her out of her misery (one stab only.) This is a very small series but certainly emphasises that most knife deaths are not from the classic phillipino knife duel that everyone talks about.
    Who would have thought "rural Ohio" could be so violent. Anywhere there are people sir ......
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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner
    When was the last time you heard of someone getting stabbed in that manner? I never have and neither have any of my law enforcement friends. I did see it in the Chronicles of Riddick though.
    Perhaps you should go by the accumulated statistics as opposed to the seat of your pants. Especilly if one day you might have to bet your seat on the info.
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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Overhead is a more natural motion for us than are stabs. In my own limited experience, it seems to be a natural angry thing to want to clobber someone from the top, down, regardless of the weapon. I took out a wrist by reacting to what I thopught (at least momentarily) was a downward stab; turned out to be the guy was trying to stab me with a felt marker. Not deadly, but in his haste and adrenaline dump, followed the same line as a raining lance attack.

    Regards,

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Being that no one knows if, when, or how one will be attacked I think it is a good idea to be prepared for any eventuality... including overhand or thrusting knife attacks. That being said, I think it is also a good idea to evalutate how effective and practical a defense may be. my 0.02

    I personally like the entry to Raining Lance. Probably because that's one technique I firmly remember seeing in "The Perfect Weapon"... THE GREATEST MOVIE EVER MADE! ROFL. Seriously, I do like the entry and think it can be effective...up to the dropping palm heel smash to the attackers nose. That's probably where I would end it.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    Perhaps you should go by the accumulated statistics as opposed to the seat of your pants. Especilly if one day you might have to bet your seat on the info.
    Post the data sir and I'll believe.

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner
    Post the data sir and I'll believe.
    My little knox county ohio study doesn't prove the national data but does prove that overhead attacks are not mythical. The 3 other blade victems I had experience with prior to ohio all lived (I was working in a hospital and dead victims never reached me.
    1) Overhead strikes to abdomen of sleeping male by angry girlfriend. (He had beat her up the night before.)
    2) Multiple defensive wounds from a carpet knife on the forearms. (about 40 lacerations per arm.)
    3) Machete slashing wounds to abdomen in a migrant laborer fighting over a girl with his best friend.

    all three victims made up with their attackers during the Hospitalization. Note the 2:1 slash vs overhead stab in survivors. I wonder if this is chance or due to the increased likelyhood of surviving slashing attacks.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Raining Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner
    Post the data sir and I'll believe.
    You do the work, I gave you the location. Remember it's your butt, I've already covered mine.
    "Nothing is more dangerous than the conscientiously ignorant, or the sincerely stupid." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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