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Thread: Raining Claw

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    Default Raining Claw

    Raining Claw -- Right Uppercut.

    I'm not going to write out the move because that's part of my question.

    When I first learned this technique, I learned it as stepping back with the block, left forward bow/raking claw to the face, neutral bow right snapping uppercut punch to the jaw.

    My instructor teaches this move as stepping forward, closed-kneel stance left claw to the face, etc.

    How do you all do it and why?

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Step back into left neutral w/right downward forearm block. Left downward claw that replaces check into right vertical thrusting back knuckle.

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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth
    Step back into left neutral w/right downward forearm block. Left downward claw that replaces check into right vertical thrusting back knuckle.
    So you do it stepping back. Is the claw in a forward bow?

    That's the difference I see between the two approaches. If you step back, you need a forward bow to reach the face. If you step forward, you'd need to go into a wide kneel to get the right angle and to drop your weight.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    I think I mainly stay in a wide kneel through the entire stance. As soon as I block I'm striking the face downward. I'd have to do it on someone to find out for sure. Remember that an uppercut punch is tight so there really isn't any reaching. At least I haven't found it to be so in my training. Could be wrong but that's how I do it.

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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth
    I think I mainly stay in a wide kneel through the entire stance. As soon as I block I'm striking the face downward. I'd have to do it on someone to find out for sure. Remember that an uppercut punch is tight so there really isn't any reaching. At least I haven't found it to be so in my training. Could be wrong but that's how I do it.
    The uppercut isn't from a forward bow. That's from neutral. It's the claw you'd have to reach for.

    So let's all work on Raining Claw at the next class and come back and report.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    We're talking about 2 seperate things at the moment. I believe you are talking about "your" uppercut which I call the vertical thrusting back knuckle. "My" uppercut was referring to the attackers uppercut. After thinking about it I believe "I" personally step back to wide kneel, block, then immediately claw. Then push drag forward with my vertical thrusting back knuckle. This should clarify things.

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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth
    We're talking about 2 separate things at the moment. I believe you are talking about "your" uppercut which I call the vertical thrusting back knuckle. "My" uppercut was referring to the attackers uppercut. After thinking about it I believe "I" personally step back to wide kneel, block, then immediately claw. Then push drag forward with my vertical thrusting back knuckle. This should clarify things.
    Ah ha. Yes, we were discussing two things. And yes, vertical thrusting backknuckle works too.

    Why a wide kneel as opposed to a closed kneel?

    I do realize that the attacker's uppercut is relatively close, but if you are stepping back, you still are moving out of range unless you are in a forward bow or a closed-kneel.

    Hmmmmmm.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Wow...I learned it in a right neutral bow. Step back->execute a right horizontal downward block to the incoming left upppercut -> transiition into a forward bow executing a left thrusting claw to the face ->execute a left downward rake as you transition back into a neutral bow needling over the left wrist executing a right uppercut to opponents chin.

    **I always liked inserting a front snap kick to the groin following the block in conjunction with the thrusting claw. I discovered it made the opponent thrust their face right into the claw. This should work from the left side as well....I would think. I'm going to have to practice it the other way.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    I guess it depends upon how far out you punch with an uppercut. I do and teach it very close. Stepping in I think you will eat it. Stepping back again, gets you to a base, creates distance, gives you room for the push drag. The 2 punches are on 2 different lines which is why you and I had a miscommunication.

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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth
    I guess it depends upon how far out you punch with an uppercut. I do and teach it very close. Stepping in I think you will eat it. Stepping back again, gets you to a base, creates distance, gives you room for the push drag. The 2 punches are on 2 different lines which is why you and I had a miscommunication.
    My instructor tells me that if you step in (since that's how he learned it), you block higher up on the arm. You block closer to the crux of the elbow.

    It works both ways, but I just thought I'd open it up for discussion.

    --Amy
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    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    That's the difference I see between the two approaches. If you step back, you need a forward bow to reach the face. If you step forward, you'd need to go into a wide kneel to get the right angle and to drop your weight.

    --Amy
    The claw can be done in a forward bow or a neutral bow after you step back and do the initial block. The frictional pull from the block should ensure that either would work fine.

    Raining Claw is done for an uppercut aimed at your solar plexus region, and the initial moved is designed to step back. Note that most of the Yellow and Orange Belt techniques are designed for us to step back.

    We step forward and block a left uppercut punch in Glancing Wing (Green Belt).


    Hope that helps.


    Jamie Seabrook
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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabrook
    The claw can be done in a forward bow or a neutral bow after you step back and do the initial block. The frictional pull from the block should ensure that either would work fine.

    Raining Claw is done for an uppercut aimed at your solar plexus region, and the initial moved is designed to step back. Note that most of the Yellow and Orange Belt techniques are designed for us to step back.

    We step forward and block a left uppercut punch in Glancing Wing (Green Belt).

    Jamie Seabrook
    Jamie -- You're always a help. I agree that it should be stepping back, but (speaking previously of red on belts), my instructor has a whole lot more of it and it's his school. So I make sure to show the students what he says too. He steps forward for a yellow belt move which makes me nuts, but it just gives me more to share.

    For the claw, I feel much more comfortable in either a forward bow or a closed-kneel, rather than a neutral. The motion doesn't feel right from a neutral to me.

    --Amy
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    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    My instructor tells me that if you step in (since that's how he learned it), you block higher up on the arm. You block closer to the crux of the elbow.

    It works both ways, but I just thought I'd open it up for discussion.

    --Amy
    wouldn't this mean, you already got hit?

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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by 0nslaught
    wouldn't this mean, you already got hit?
    No.
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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    no body responded to Celtic. Don't you step back into a right neutral or forward if you prefer. Either step is excellent for what ifs. I do like a phrase my instructor uses. Why repeat something the system already covers. Like Jamie stated the step forward is covered in glancing salute. Sorry if I'm not understanding the stance. It's late and I supposed to be working. Faron

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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    Wow...I learned it in a right neutral bow. Step back->execute a right horizontal downward block to the incoming left upppercut
    Don't you mean right uppercut?
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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Quote Originally Posted by Faron Whiteye
    Why repeat something the system already covers. Faron
    Hi buddy,

    What were you referring to by the quote above? I was a little unsure.
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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    For some reason...I originaly learned it as a defense against a left uppercut. It probably would have helped if I had mentioned that the first post. DOH! That would explain the "mirroring" of the exectution of the technique.

    Our school is going through a lot of changes. I'm really glad this forum is here. It is an excellent resource as my Sifu has given me the task of revamping our syllabus. Right now, the only thing we really have "set in stone" is the IKCA curriculum. We want to continue to teach the Parker material too, but I have to syphon it out of our old syllabus which also contained a lot of Tracy material and miscellaneous material as well.

    Amy has been a big help. Thanks Amy! Since coming to this forum, I've learned that the way we execute some of our techniuques are sometimes very different from the classic EPAK format, even though they may have the same name. It's a huge task to go through technique by technique and compare my notes with those so kindly provided by Mr. Rob Broad (BTW, where the heck is he anyway? haven't seen him in a while)
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    It was suggested to me by a friend recently to step back and up the circle just a little (step offline) from the attack.

    I'm going to try that at my next class.

    I would think that the forward bow would be necessary if done that way.

    --Amy

    P.S. Anytime Crippler! If anyone else needs any of the material written out or the belt requirements of the 24 system, let me know. I'm happy to send it to you.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


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    Default Re: Raining Claw

    Jamie. sorry for not quoting. anyway what i meant was that the forward step for an uppercut is covered by the green belt technique. The reason it became important for me to make sure I learned the proper movements was I had a bad habit from my previous instructor that almost all blocks in different techniques became double factor movements from the arnis instead of learing all the different approaches that the kenpo system teaches in responding to attacks. Another example was many of the techniques that had inward elbows were becoming sandwhiching elbows wether the sandwhich was meant to be in the technique or not.

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