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Thread: Clutching Feathers

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    Default Clutching Feathers

    A thought about clutching feathers.

    I'm not terribly experienced with street fighting, but this technique has always seemed weird to me.

    Do people really come up with their left hand and just grab your hair?

    Mike L. shows a great take down with this technique and that, along with the technique do work, but the question is whether that's an attack that anyone would really do?

    Anyone have experience with it?

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    I think a hair grab from behind would be pretty realistic. I was caught off guard a few times with that when I was younger. I had really long hair back then to and wow it can be crippling. I don't know about the front hair grab. Curious.
    -Camey

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Quote Originally Posted by cameypsaromatis
    I think a hair grab from behind would be pretty realistic. I was caught off guard a few times with that when I was younger. I had really long hair back then to and wow it can be crippling. I don't know about the front hair grab. Curious.
    Was it a boy with a crush, a girl who was being bratty or a real attack?

    And yes, that would be a realistic consideration (from behind)

    Is the front grab like a set up for a sucker punch or something?

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Come to think of it, I've seen some chick fights that go for the hair like this. Sadly.
    -Camey

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Grabs lead you into unfavorable predicaments, The predicament is more likely a right than a left. Consider the left a static left jab.
    Sean

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    I have always thought of this grab as the secondary action of someone holding your head there ready to clock you with their right hand. IMO This isn't a first attack, possibly someone pushes you from behind into another who then grabs your hair. What if you're bald. Does this technique work for a front left shoulder grab or a higher push?
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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey_Sutherland
    I have always thought of this grab as the secondary action of someone holding your head there ready to clock you with their right hand. IMO This isn't a first attack, possibly someone pushes you from behind into another who then grabs your hair. What if you're bald. Does this technique work for a front left shoulder grab or a higher push?
    I think you're right. This, and most grabs, are more likely to occur somewhere in the course of a fight than as an opening move. But I don't think it would work for a shoulder grab or a push. Angle of incidence and body mechanics are different. There are similar techniques in the same family group that work- Lone Kimono and Twin Kimono, Snaping Twigs.

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    A thought about clutching feathers.

    I'm not terribly experienced with street fighting, but this technique has always seemed weird to me.

    Do people really come up with their left hand and just grab your hair?

    Mike L. shows a great take down with this technique and that, along with the technique do work, but the question is whether that's an attack that anyone would really do?

    Anyone have experience with it?

    --Amy
    I like the technique, however I have questions in my mind about the attack also, but, as always I remain open minded.
    I think as a pure attack - a left handed grab of the hair from the front is rare. However, this is more likely to happen as a set up for another strike. In sayaing that - if i were to grab someones hair to set up a right handed strike I dont think I would bring them straight forward. I think I would tend to want to pull towards my left side slightly and attempt to anchor my elbow into my hip and punch with my right to the side of the jaw / neck etc. If I was to pull the hair to bring some one straight forward it would be to meet knee to face, and in that synario I would use my right hand.

    I have seen the hair grab and pull on two occasions - both by bouncers getting someone to 'take a break'. On both those occasions the other guy was taken from the flank.

    jonah

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Females seem to have a habit of going for hair but where males are concerned it seems most of us agree that this would be something more likely to occure during the course of a fight. Of course.... I don't have that problem. LOL
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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Just some random speculation on my part . . .

    In Infinite Insights, Mr. Parker reports that he has male students move the belt-knot to the left, and female students move the belt-knot to the right. He reports this is to show respect for the instructor, and to indicate that female is the stronger sex (right = strong side).

    But, could it be that the hair cuts in the 60's and 70's were sometimes less than clearly gender definable. In an era when every one's hair was long and shaggy, might this attack have been more probable?

    Recall, that it wasn't until the late-80's that we discovered Jean Luc-Picard; the first among the 'anti-clutching-feathers' crowd.

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Could it be adapted to a goatee grab? LOL. ...come to think of it... can anyone think of a defense against a beard grab????? It would be just as likely I would think..hmmmm
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Hello Amy,

    Just my thoughts on clutching feathers. Although the technique may not seem useful, the pattern remains valid. If you let your mind stretch a bit, you'll notice it is the same attack as Lone Kimono, just a little further up the heighth zone.

    If for instance you attempt lone kimono on an attacker an he releases his grab on your attempt to extend his arm/elbow, what are your options? Follow the inside of the pattern taught in Clutching Feathers and you have your solution. IF you work both patterns, you'll find they are just opposite patterns of each other (not counting the left heel palm in clutching feathers of course).

    SO in my opinion, here is the beauty of Kenpo: Transferable concepts and ideas. It is groovy to add all kinds of inserts and tweaks, but if you study the patterns taught in the techniques you find how groovy they already are.

    Just my two cents.

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    I'm not sure about the realism/unrealism of the attack, I think two girls fighting (untrained, before i get any abuse!) are more likely to grab hair, as there is often more of it readily available?

    What I really like is that it stops people from freaking/freezing when their hair is grabbed - I learnt, and see others learn very quickly how much hair grabbing hurts, and how simple it is to buy yourself 'thinking time' using the pinning check.

    If nothing else, that specific knowledge could help someone out big time.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Quote Originally Posted by cameypsaromatis
    Come to think of it, I've seen some chick fights that go for the hair like this. Sadly.
    I dont think I have EVER seen a real street fight between chicks (untrained) where at least one of them didnt grab the hair and hang on while trying to strike.
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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    think about this scenario:

    you are in an altercation with a taller individual (male or female, i don't care). a big ham hock of a left fist comes toward your head, and you deflect it then tuck low to counter with a body strike... so while your opponent is looking down at you (now being even taller than you since you tucked) he grabs your hair to pull your face up as a target for his next right punch....

    ok, you ride the motion back, pin his hand to your head and attack the open targets on the left side of the attackers body, canceling width and the threat of the right punch.

    the biggest key to this technique is keep your spinal alignment when riding the motion back and NOT trying to carry his arm back using only your neck muscles.

    pete.

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Quote Originally Posted by spiderboy
    .....What I really like is that it stops people from freaking/freezing when their hair is grabbed - I learnt, and see others learn very quickly how much hair grabbing hurts, and how simple it is to buy yourself 'thinking time' using the pinning check.

    If nothing else, that specific knowledge could help someone out big time.
    Well said bud,
    Although the pin only helps when the hair is grabbed from near the root. If you have long hair and it is grabbed towards the end the pin looses its effect but thats not the discussion on this tech eh!! - any way - as you know alex, the hair grab attack is not something I have to be wary of!!!!

    jonah

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    I like the idea of not freezing when your hair gets pulled and I like what Pete said about someone pulling you back up to their size. (That brought to mind the image of a giant.)

    I see that the move itself is valuable and can be adapted for other things.

    Chick fights are likely, but I think chickies would be more likely to yank to the side. I don't know though; I've never been that kind of chickie.

    --Amy
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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Hair pulling may considered rare, but its not rare for me to use the tactic. long two gave me too many good ideas.
    sean

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward
    Recall, that it wasn't until the late-80's that we discovered Jean Luc-Picard; the first among the 'anti-clutching-feathers' crowd.
    Yul Brenner?

    CF does teach the strike and the reaction you'll get for a pretty obscure axilary nerve.

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    Default Re: Clutching Feathers

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong
    A thought about clutching feathers.

    I'm not terribly experienced with street fighting, but this technique has always seemed weird to me.

    Do people really come up with their left hand and just grab your hair?

    Mike L. shows a great take down with this technique and that, along with the technique do work, but the question is whether that's an attack that anyone would really do?
    --Amy
    Emphatically yes. Although seen historically by women, when hair is available it isused as a control mechanism and precursor for a punching assault by male and female alike. Additionally from the Chinese it is a nerve takedown.
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