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Thread: Is there anywhere or anyone who has a breakdown of the application of forms???

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    Default Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?

    Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?
    Last edited by Brett; 02-27-2018 at 11:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?
    I don't believe there are any official forms that do this. But, there is no reason why you couldn't create such a form yourself. It would be cool to see.
    Basics, the rest is bullshytery.

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    Default Re: Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?

    No rules against that, but normally there is a theme.
    Also Mastering Tsing Tao.

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    Default Re: Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    No rules against that, but normally there is a theme.
    normally?
    Basics, the rest is bullshytery.

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    Default Re: Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?

    Sometimes, such a task is assigned for grading.

    When I discussed the idea of a personal form for grading with Huk ... He told me, explicitly to NOT combine EPAK techniques into forms.

    He said, he already knows how to do Five Swords and Thundering Hammers. There is no need for me to put them in a form.

    The guidance I received was to create my own form, with my own techniques, based upon the rules and principles of motion as described in our system.


    Although, going back to the original poster's question:

    I think the answer is ... you mean, like forms Short 3, Long 3, Four, Five and Six? Possibley Seven and Eight?

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    Default Re: Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?

    A couple of thoughts on why...

    First, are you linking all of the techniques together into a form what is the purpose? Is it just to run them all together to practice and kind of a repetition and way to remember them all? Are you putting them all together and trying to add in directional changes, and if so for what purpose? Training the idea of multiple attackers? To practice directional changes in general for an attacker at a different angle?

    Second, if you are trying to link all of the techniques together for a multiple attacker scenario, you may be installing bad habits due to the strategies needed. For example, how are they strung together? Are you considering attacker placement to use one as a shield or your own movement to get them to follow you to set up a counter attack?

    In the IKCA they use their "Master Form" that has all 55 base techniques in it, but it is put together to remember and practice them all as a whole, there is not an underlying "strategy" that is learned (to my knowledge).

    I have also heard of people doing "belt forms", which is just that belt level's techniques put together to remember them all in a quick and easy format to refresh their memory.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    A couple of thoughts on why...

    First, are you linking all of the techniques together into a form what is the purpose? Is it just to run them all together to practice and kind of a repetition and way to remember them all? Are you putting them all together and trying to add in directional changes, and if so for what purpose? Training the idea of multiple attackers? To practice directional changes in general for an attacker at a different angle?

    Second, if you are trying to link all of the techniques together for a multiple attacker scenario, you may be installing bad habits due to the strategies needed. For example, how are they strung together? Are you considering attacker placement to use one as a shield or your own movement to get them to follow you to set up a counter attack?

    In the IKCA they use their "Master Form" that has all 55 base techniques in it, but it is put together to remember and practice them all as a whole, there is not an underlying "strategy" that is learned (to my knowledge).

    I have also heard of people doing "belt forms", which is just that belt level's techniques put together to remember them all in a quick and easy format to refresh their memory.
    The IKCA has put all of the techniques together in the Master Form using a very specific “strategy”. The strategy is repetition. Repetition of the techs being learned. Whether you take the position of techs being sequences of learned movement to be selectively used; or complete self defense solutions (personally I believe both), you will have neither without repetition. You practice the MF, you will practice the techs, with common transitions you might encounter as well.

    Years ago the founders of the IKCA toyed with the idea of having students design their own form, even a school designing a school form. In the end, they chose against it. Why? You’d have to ask them. My suspicion is that much of what was being offered was already there in the Master Form.

    Any practitioner of any form of Kenpo can put together any form they want. But do it for yourself, with an eye toward what you need to work on. You don’t need any high-ranking approval. It’s your journey. Of course, your starting point should be the structure of what you are learning. There may be more there than you think.

    Respects,

    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Institute
    www.trianglekenpo.com

    "I know Kenpo!" "Cool... do you know how to use it?"

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    Default Re: Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?

    I thought Tracy kenpo has a teaching series based on sequential techniques that became a form.

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    Default Re: Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    I thought Tracy kenpo has a teaching series based on sequential techniques that became a form.
    Yup. They are the same forms done in the other lineages. I guess the main difference is that the Tracy lineage teaches the techs in the same order that they are in the form.
    Michael


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    Default Re: Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by bdparsons View Post
    The IKCA has put all of the techniques together in the Master Form using a very specific “strategy”. The strategy is repetition. Repetition of the techs being learned. Whether you take the position of techs being sequences of learned movement to be selectively used; or complete self defense solutions (personally I believe both), you will have neither without repetition. You practice the MF, you will practice the techs, with common transitions you might encounter as well.

    Years ago the founders of the IKCA toyed with the idea of having students design their own form, even a school designing a school form. In the end, they chose against it. Why? You’d have to ask them. My suspicion is that much of what was being offered was already there in the Master Form.

    Any practitioner of any form of Kenpo can put together any form they want. But do it for yourself, with an eye toward what you need to work on. You don’t need any high-ranking approval. It’s your journey. Of course, your starting point should be the structure of what you are learning. There may be more there than you think.

    Respects,

    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Institute
    I wasn't clear what I meant by "strategy". I was defining it as your "battle plan" for the form, what are you trying to accomplish. I wouldn't define repetition as a strategy, but as a a purpose.

    For example, in a hallway where two attackers are blocking the door what are the ways you can get through the door to safety? Crumpling up the first attacker at your feet and blocking the door isn't a good idea with the 2nd guy there and possibly blocking the entrance. What about blasting the first guy into the 2nd guy through the door? What about throwing the first guy past you and behind? etc. etc. Now, what concepts and techniques do you have to accomplish those?

    This is how our forms are set up. Trying to manage a multiple attacker situation and constantly moving to not become "attacker bound" but trying to buy snapshots of time to reposition, stun, remove etc.

    But, sometimes terms are defined differently in different systems/styles.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    I wasn't clear what I meant by "strategy". I was defining it as your "battle plan" for the form, what are you trying to accomplish. I wouldn't define repetition as a strategy, but as a a purpose.

    For example, in a hallway where two attackers are blocking the door what are the ways you can get through the door to safety? Crumpling up the first attacker at your feet and blocking the door isn't a good idea with the 2nd guy there and possibly blocking the entrance. What about blasting the first guy into the 2nd guy through the door? What about throwing the first guy past you and behind? etc. etc. Now, what concepts and techniques do you have to accomplish those?

    This is how our forms are set up. Trying to manage a multiple attacker situation and constantly moving to not become "attacker bound" but trying to buy snapshots of time to reposition, stun, remove etc.

    But, sometimes terms are defined differently in different systems/styles.
    I understand, my comment was meant to be more tongue in cheek when it comes to strategy. But I will stand by the fact that repetition is a sound training strategy. Proper repetition, of course. Expansion on thst always being possible.

    Respects,

    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Institute
    www.trianglekenpo.com

    "I know Kenpo!" "Cool... do you know how to use it?"

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    Default Re: Has anyone taken the EPAK techniques and linked them together into forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    I thought Tracy kenpo has a teaching series based on sequential techniques that became a form.
    GGM Tracy rearranged the order of progression of techniques so that they were learned in the belt before the form.

    For example, the green belt curriculum contains most of the techniques in Mass Attack and all of the techniques in Long 4. Those forms are taught in 3rd brown.

    The student knows the application before the form is taught. Form follows function.
    Dave

    "I consider that the spiritual life is the life of man's real self, the life of that interior self whose flame is so often allowed to be smothered under the ashes of anxiety and futile concern." - Thomas Merton


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