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Thread: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoChanger View Post
    I would suggest you lose the chicken farm, and Plant!
    Gotcha. Sounds good.

    But the real question is, would some instructor still give me a yellow belt if, during the exam, I would demonstrate this SD technique in such an altered form as developed here - and explain why?

    I seriously wonder.

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    Default Re: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Star Dragon View Post
    Gotcha. Sounds good.

    But the real question is, would some instructor still give me a yellow belt if, during the exam, I would demonstrate this SD technique in such an altered form as developed here - and explain why?

    I seriously wonder.
    Nothing you learn here will help you make rank. We can make you, faster, better, and stronger, but we aren't your belt daddies.
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    Default Re: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Star Dragon View Post
    Gotcha. Sounds good.

    But the real question is, would some instructor still give me a yellow belt if, during the exam, I would demonstrate this SD technique in such an altered form as developed here - and explain why?

    I seriously wonder.
    What you must understand is, YOUR interpretation is not an "altered form." It is the technique as you see it functioning, and under the guiding philosophy of Ed Parker's kenpo Karate it is perfectly acceptable. Now if you have a teacher who teaches it one way, and insists you do it his way, that's another talk show. But, a technique is only "wrong" in EPKK when the instructor insists on no variations from what he taught you, or if it doesn't work. It is both the strength and weakness of Ed Parker's kenpo Karate that allows and encourages the students to make these decisions instead of presenting hard inflexible functional methodologies. If everything is an interpretation, it only takes one person teaching their personal "style" or interpretation to set in motion a chain of events that changes the entire structure of what most feel is a set system. It is not. It is a system of set ideas, not mechanics.
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    Default Re: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    What you must understand is, YOUR interpretation is not an "altered form." It is the technique as you see it functioning, and under the guiding philosophy of Ed Parker's kenpo Karate it is perfectly acceptable. Now if you have a teacher who teaches it one way, and insists you do it his way, that's another talk show. But, a technique is only "wrong" in EPKK when the instructor insists on no variations from what he taught you, or if it doesn't work. It is both the strength and weakness of Ed Parker's kenpo Karate that allows and encourages the students to make these decisions instead of presenting hard inflexible functional methodologies. If everything is an interpretation, it only takes one person teaching their personal "style" or interpretation to set in motion a chain of events that changes the entire structure of what most feel is a set system. It is not. It is a system of set ideas, not mechanics.
    Any time I see this discussion, I remember my instructor chastising people who kept changing things without knowing the reason for it in the first place, or were too lazy to work on it to get the skills to make it work. "I told you all, to make it your own, NOT make it up on your own"! I think there is alot of that, some people with the proper knowledge put stuff in place and through the years people with sometimes no real world experience make changes based on preference and knowledge is lost. The hard part for new students is they don't often know the difference.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

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    Default Re: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    Any time I see this discussion, I remember my instructor chastising people who kept changing things without knowing the reason for it in the first place, or were too lazy to work on it to get the skills to make it work. "I told you all, to make it your own, NOT make it up on your own"! I think there is alot of that, some people with the proper knowledge put stuff in place and through the years people with sometimes no real world experience make changes based on preference and knowledge is lost. The hard part for new students is they don't often know the difference.
    Yes, it surely happens that students do away with material prematurely, due to a lack of comprehension. Personally, I like to understand the pros and cons of doing things a certain way before I decide whether I want to adopt them. However, coming from a background of fairly rigid Japanese arts (especially Shotokan), I do find Kenpo's individualistic approach very refreshing. Being creative with the material certainly poses challenges that many a less advanced student is not up to. But rather than reprimanding them, a good instructor should be able to offer them guidance in this. There are little absolutes in the combative arts (or anywhere else, for that matter). And there is no evolution without trial and error. Open discussion and demonstration of the strengths and weaknesses of divergent approaches would be the way to go. However, that presupposes a wide knowledge base on the part of the instructor. It's too easy for an instructor to believe and insist that their own way is the best for everybody. Do they follow the letters or the spirit of the art? That is so often the question.

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    Default Re: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Star Dragon View Post
    Do they follow the letters or the spirit of the art? That is so often the question.
    Both, really. There is a difference between doing something over and over and over, correctly, and finding a better or more efficient way to do it without sacrificing the intent, vs. changing something because you can't make it work.

    When you begin a sentence, you have an idea of the meaning you want to convey, but you probably do not know each and every word that you will use to convey the meaning.

    But you have enough of a mastery of the letters and words to be spontaneous, correct, and achieve the goal.
    Dave

    "I consider that the spiritual life is the life of man's real self, the life of that interior self whose flame is so often allowed to be smothered under the ashes of anxiety and futile concern." - Thomas Merton


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    Default Re: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Star Dragon View Post
    Well, Mr Bunny, I am sure you would know what is cartoonish; LOL. Fwiw, I have seen this suggested by some fairly well respected instructors. But I agree that it could be difficult to grab the wrist in real life. I described it as a mere possibility - if you miss the grab, the rest of the technique will still work just fine.



    Wonky slicing side kick?! Larry Tatum demonstrates it with that kind of kick and doesn't look wonky. And it happens to be just ideal for the DM attack that I described! Even though, if memory serves right, the technique was in fact originally taught with two front kicks, and that would be a more simple way of doing it, which is a good thing in a real situation.
    Here's my concern with the extended outward with the downward club. A moderately experienced stick fighter will use the missed downward and redirect the ricochet off the ground and into the newly opened path of entry under the extended outward to your ribs.

    Now, anyone throwing a full blown downward is likely not a trained stick fighter, also as long as you are focused on evasion and that ball kick... the stick should land at about the same time the stick is ending its decent. The likelihood of someone redirecting the stick is low, I am just not a fan of opening that up if i don't have to.

    Second... Don't really care how he does it, total respect they guy don't get me wrong... still wonky. I would keep in mind that it is rarely a good choice to complicate a technique to make it fit into a personal desire.

    Case in point.Mace of aggression . If I really wanted to I could change the hammer to the face to a Bushiken strike to the lower carotid rolling pressure into the brain as I shift to the mastoid process..... cause.. that's much cooler...

    Or.... I can just smash the douche-bags face in.

    There is a beauty in simplicity.

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    Default Re: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

    I like the two front kicks version. But as far as the last technique, it's back to the backfist for me. One reason being that I can hit the GB meridian this way which ties in with my previous techniques. But another that I did some impact measurements recently with various techniques, and I found my backfist to be among my strongest hand techniques. Then again, I don't throw it with a mere snapping motion of the arm like most people do, but rather with full body commitment, the way I learned in Taiji (it's still snapping though, not raking through the target.) I know that backfist strikes don't have a good reputation with many a martial artist nowadays, but I for one still think of them as great techniques.

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    Default Re: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

    You are right, of course. That should be 2:00. I would edit my post accordingly - if I could...



    like twin spin slot only here

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    Default Re: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunny View Post
    Here's my concern with the extended outward with the downward club. A moderately experienced stick fighter will use the missed downward and redirect the ricochet off the ground and into the newly opened path of entry under the extended outward to your ribs.

    Now, anyone throwing a full blown downward is likely not a trained stick fighter, also as long as you are focused on evasion and that ball kick... the stick should land at about the same time the stick is ending its decent. The likelihood of someone redirecting the stick is low, I am just not a fan of opening that up if i don't have to.

    Second... Don't really care how he does it, total respect they guy don't get me wrong... still wonky. I would keep in mind that it is rarely a good choice to complicate a technique to make it fit into a personal desire.

    Case in point.Mace of aggression . If I really wanted to I could change the hammer to the face to a Bushiken strike to the lower carotid rolling pressure into the brain as I shift to the mastoid process..... cause.. that's much cooler...

    Or.... I can just smash the douche-bags face in.

    There is a beauty in simplicity.

    BunbUn
    Just to keep some kenpo discussion going.

    I agree with your post about an experienced stick fighter. I think this is where kenpoists and the "club" techniques get into trouble. Most people use the popular FMA rattan sticks for their club techniques which are a different length, weight and usage than what SGM Parker designed the club techniques for. They are, after all, CLUB techniques and not stick techniques. The original design was for the old style "tire checkers" or a short billy club. Much smaller in length and have more heft and weight to them. It is going to change the dynamics of their use a lot.
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    Default Re: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    Just to keep some kenpo discussion going.

    I agree with your post about an experienced stick fighter. I think this is where kenpoists and the "club" techniques get into trouble. Most people use the popular FMA rattan sticks for their club techniques which are a different length, weight and usage than what SGM Parker designed the club techniques for. They are, after all, CLUB techniques and not stick techniques. The original design was for the old style "tire checkers" or a short billy club. Much smaller in length and have more heft and weight to them. It is going to change the dynamics of their use a lot.
    Preach Brother. The "club" techniques are designed for bludgeons, actual "clubs" that are elongated items that by there very weight and heft, become weapons. Once initiated to use as such the action is committed and a change of direction is not possible until the movement is completed or makes contact with something. The so-called "Kenpo sticks" are NOT representative of the weapons the techniques are designed to defend against. Think the weight of a bumper jack handle/wrench at a minimum.

    No different than when you throw a "committed" punch and don't make contact. When you expect and anticipate contact on a committed attack, when it doesn't occur you are thrown off balance and could even fall down. Magnify that that by the weight of an additional object in your hand and it becomes clear you can't just "change direction in mid-air" and whip it around like a couple of Kali sticks.
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  18. #32
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    Default Re: Dim Mak Analysis of Checking the Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Preach Brother. The "club" techniques are designed for bludgeons, actual "clubs" that are elongated items that by there very weight and heft, become weapons. Once initiated to use as such the action is committed and a change of direction is not possible until the movement is completed or makes contact with something. The so-called "Kenpo sticks" are NOT representative of the weapons the techniques are designed to defend against. Think the weight of a bumper jack handle/wrench at a minimum.

    No different than when you throw a "committed" punch and don't make contact. When you expect and anticipate contact on a committed attack, when it doesn't occur you are thrown off balance and could even fall down. Magnify that that by the weight of an additional object in your hand and it becomes clear you can't just "change direction in mid-air" and whip it around like a couple of Kali sticks.
    That is true, and I have seen it happen to most seasoned martial artists. I believe it's possible to counteract this tendency by emphasising good balance when training with a heavy bag or BOB, but it takes a conscious effort. I find this worthwhile, though, since in a real fight, it's always possible to miss, as your adversary can be expected to try their best to evade your techniques.

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