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Thread: Double Elbows

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    blfycdq is offline
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    Default Double Elbows

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j5KtcZfpZE

    Hello All,

    This technique is called "Double Elbows" and is used for a step through left straight punch. It flows nicely and delivers a good bang for the effort.

    -Carl

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    Juggernaut is offline
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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    It looks kind of like the elbow, back knuckle, elbow combination from triggered salute.

    Is there any possibility for you to do your video techniques slowly once then up to speed? I personally am new to Kenpo and would like to see it slow once.

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    blfycdq is offline
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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    It looks kind of like the elbow, back knuckle, elbow combination from triggered salute.

    Is there any possibility for you to do your video techniques slowly once then up to speed? I personally am new to Kenpo and would like to see it slow once.

    __________________
    Regards,

    James Bullock

    Yeah,...your right...never crossed my mind....good eye!

    However, the first elbow is more of a thrusting-stabbing type paired with an eye stab as well, but over all, yes I see "Triggered Salute" within this technique. This technique was an old Tracy's Technique which I modified by using the "Frank Soto" opening move and closing move. He is the man!
    You can learn more about him here: http://www.kenpo.com.mx/

    Best Regards,
    Carl from Atlanta

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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    I enjoyed this one.
    I would like to see it done slowly however.

    good eye James, I agree.

    Your Brother
    John
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    bujuts is offline
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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut View Post
    It looks kind of like the elbow, back knuckle, elbow combination from triggered salute.

    Is there any possibility for you to do your video techniques slowly once then up to speed? I personally am new to Kenpo and would like to see it slow once.
    I respectfully agree with Mr. Bullock, Carl. This kind of speed just doesn't work on a body if we are to seriously damage it. To see this slowly with full impact manipulation would be wonderful.

    thanks for posting the clips.

    Steven Brown
    UKF

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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    Quote Originally Posted by bujuts View Post
    This kind of speed just doesn't work on a body if we are to seriously damage it.
    I disagree.
    speed kills

    Force = Mass X Acceleration
    acceleration, being a change in the rate of speed, is the multiplier. It's why a bullet does it's damage. It's mass is LOW, but it's speed is High, it spreads and slows down. Which is also why a bullet that doesn't pass through the body of it's victim does MORE damage. Because of the energy expressed when the body stops a bullet w/in itself, it's energy comes through as tissue damage and not the motion of the bullet behind the body.
    ANYWAY...
    speed doesn't negate power, it creates it. BUT...the Mass must be in alignment too.

    Your Brother
    John
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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    I disagree.
    speed kills

    Force = Mass X Acceleration
    acceleration, being a change in the rate of speed, is the multiplier. It's why a bullet does it's damage. It's mass is LOW, but it's speed is High, it spreads and slows down. Which is also why a bullet that doesn't pass through the body of it's victim does MORE damage. Because of the energy expressed when the body stops a bullet w/in itself, it's energy comes through as tissue damage and not the motion of the bullet behind the body.
    ANYWAY...
    speed doesn't negate power, it creates it. BUT...the Mass must be in alignment too.

    Your Brother
    John
    Far be it for an AKKI member to dispute the above...so I won't ;-)

    I like this summation of Newton's Second Law of Motion:

    "The acceleration of an object as produced by a net force is directly proportional to the magnitude of the net force, in the same direction as the net force, and inversely proportional to the mass of the object."

    It brings together the equation of M x A = F with principles such as directional harmony (remember people, mass times acceleration, not speed...you've got to decelerate at times if you're going to accelerate, otherwise acceleration becomes a constant and your force levels off). Physics still gives me a headache though.

    "Speed doesn't negate power, it creates it..." I like that

    Sean

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    Brother John (04-06-2007)

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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    Quote Originally Posted by scarey View Post
    "Speed doesn't negate power, it creates it..." I like that

    Sean
    Thank you!!!

    ....nifty useful sayings like this, and more, can be yours for the low cost of $199.95 per month. (for 34 months)
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    Your Brother
    John
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    ~ David Bly

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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    Thank you!!!

    ....nifty useful sayings like this, and more, can be yours for the low cost of $199.95 per month. (for 34 months)
    Amaze your friends
    Confuse your boss

    I'll even throw in this handsome bald guy, great conversation piece...
    good at emptying your fridge....


    Your Brother
    John
    But wait...there's more........

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    bujuts is offline
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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    I disagree.
    speed kills

    Force = Mass X Acceleration


    acceleration, being a change in the rate of speed, is the multiplier. It's why a bullet does it's damage. It's mass is LOW, but it's speed is High, it spreads and slows down. Which is also why a bullet that doesn't pass through the body of it's victim does MORE damage. Because of the energy expressed when the body stops a bullet w/in itself, it's energy comes through as tissue damage and not the motion of the bullet behind the body.
    ANYWAY...
    speed doesn't negate power, it creates it. BUT...the Mass must be in alignment too.

    Your Brother
    John
    I 100% agree with you. Where we differe is in our topic. The speed of a given strike vs. overall speed from strike to strike, or from move to move.

    What I'm getting at here is the propensity for many to sacrifice accuracy for speed in training. Accuracy doesn't just mean hitting "at" or "towards" the correct targets, it means hitting them to achieve the intended results, and among these results is impact manipulation. Kenpo just doesn't work if we don't move the body. The impacted body will not react as fast as strikes in the air would like them to. In other words, I can be hit with a 800 ft/sec an kick in the bladder, but my head will not drop at that rate.

    Please don't get me wrong, terminal velocity of the weapon is very important, but as I mentioned I think we're talking about two different things here. Regardless, I believe training should be mixed up to be able to work all facets of what makes a move effective (anaotmical alignment, mindset, speed, target accuracy, correct weapon, etc.). But, in my experience, speed is also the easiest to achieve when all other things are in place, which is what we want under true stress.

    Great topic. Look forward to more.

    Steven Brown
    UKF

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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    I respectfully agree with Mr. Bullock, Carl. This kind of speed just doesn't work on a body if we are to seriously damage it. To see this slowly with full impact manipulation would be wonderful.

    thanks for posting the clips.

    Steven Brown
    UKF


    Hey,

    Thanks for taking the time to look at my video and give the above response! Interesting perspective!

    Now, this technique is really more than what it appears. I am holding back considerably in sinking the first strikes(elbow and eye gauge). I am aiming my elbow just below the arm pit around where the floating ribs starts. This is a very sensitive area(soft target). More so, I am hitting this target with a hard weapon backed up by my body mass! Now, if I increase my speed(total mass of my body), the initial strike is overwhelming for my dummy and the technique ends before it starts.

    But if it does not end, then there is follow-up! Right back fist to the same initial target area. Then, another elbow(right inward) followed by another spear like elbow. This last elbow for the most part strikes the opponent's arm between the elbow and shoulder. This strike alone is a show stopper. Then yet another backfist(arm---kind of a check) followed by an outward claw to the face. This gives me time to set up the right leg buckle and right forearm shot to the opponent's neck for the take down.

    Thus, this kind of speed can damage a body considerably if you are accurate and find your desired targets and follow the rules and principles of Kenpo as outlined by Ed.....

    Please try this move and let me know what ya think?

    Best Regards,
    Carl from hot atlanta

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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    Quote Originally Posted by bujuts View Post
    I 100% agree with you. Where we differe is in our topic. The speed of a given strike vs. overall speed from strike to strike, or from move to move.

    What I'm getting at here is the propensity for many to sacrifice accuracy for speed in training. Accuracy doesn't just mean hitting "at" or "towards" the correct targets, it means hitting them to achieve the intended results, and among these results is impact manipulation. Kenpo just doesn't work if we don't move the body. The impacted body will not react as fast as strikes in the air would like them to. In other words, I can be hit with a 800 ft/sec an kick in the bladder, but my head will not drop at that rate.


    Steven Brown
    UKF
    Steven Brown...from Boulder by chance?

    I wholeheartedly agree with you on your point of the "propensity for many to sacrifice accuracy for speed in training". Coming from an organization who works a lot on speed/acceleration/timing, I see some people fall into that trap, and I probably do myself from time to time, but I try to avoid it. When I don't get the reaction I desire, I ask myself 'oops, why did I lose power there'. Invariably, I am violating principles on some level.

    I will disagree to some extent, with your opinion that Kenpo just doesn't work if you don't move the body. One of our goals is to MOVE the body, and the predictability of the reaction of an opponent due to strikes is certainly a major facet of much that we do in Kenpo. However, if faced with a more heavily muscled opponent, or one that is used to being hit, or one of a hundred other scenarios...I'm not going to change the WAY that I hit, nor the methds with which I sequence from strike to strike...what I will have to do is alter my targets and perhaps my weapons or my approach to the opponent. Obviously, my technique may need to be adjusted, or I may need to change my tactics, but I'm still going to strike, hard, fast and often whether he moves where I want him to or not.

    Incidentally, I loved Doc's video where he said something akin to "and see, his right knee is there BECAUSE I PUT IT THERE!" Great stuff...obviously one of the goals of what we do...however, with the unpredictability of a street altercation, in my training at least, I train to hit the way that I do regardless of whether my opponent does what I want him to or not...I utilize striking transitions to get to a common point where I can graft or flow into something appropriate for the situation.

    Sorry, I'm sort of rambling all over the place here...not feeling too centered today for some ready. Anyway, just a few thoughts...and I also agree, great subject.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFSUPDGvFVM
    You'll not he does some of the techniques slowly, to demonstrate targeting, etc...but his transitions between strikes is....shall we say accelerated ;-) And I don't think his uke was moving...I know I didn't when he did Lone Kimono on me...rock still baby, I didn't twitch!

    Sean

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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    Quote Originally Posted by blfycdq View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j5KtcZfpZE

    Hello All,

    This technique is called "Double Elbows" and is used for a step through left straight punch. It flows nicely and delivers a good bang for the effort.

    -Carl
    Needs more penetration.

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    Juggernaut is offline
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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    Carl,

    I think you have some really good videos, but as I stated earlier I really think it will be much more beneficial for newbies and veteran kenpoist's alike to see the movement done slowly once and then up too speed.

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    KenpoJuJitsu3 is offline
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    Default Re: Double Elbows

    Variation of Gripping Talon?
    James Hawkins III, SI
    Hawkins Martial Arts
    Baltimore, MD 410-948-1440
    http://www.youtube.com/user/FunctionalKenpo
    http://www.youtube.com/user/kenpojujitsu3

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