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Thread: Triggered Salute

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    blfycdq is offline
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    Default Triggered Salute

    ..Here is a clip on Triggered Salute.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRxmc5XScVk

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    RDCParker is offline
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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    Triggered Salute is the first technique that I HATED when I learned it. Reason being, I couldn't understand how the first initial movement worked. It didn't fit well for me. Thank God that kenpo can be tailored to fit!

    This video shows the defender stepping forward with the fuse and the palm heel. How most of the people in my class learned it was, the initial push lands on your shoulder, which forces your shoulder back. This made it hard for me to step forward with the palm. So I was taught a variation.

    1. When I am pushed, I go with it into a twist stance with the palm heel. Then keeping my palm at the attacker's chin, I step forward while pushing the opponent back, getting him off balance.
    2. I then deliver the hook to the arm, the two elbows and backfist to the floating ribs.
    3. And then finally, with his hand still fused to me, I step drag back, and as he is pulled forward with me, I use Opposing Force as I either palm heel to the solar plexus or uppercut to the jaw.
    "Your kung fu's no good..."
    *Warrior, Scholar*

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by blfycdq View Post
    ..Here is a clip on Triggered Salute.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRxmc5XScVk
    There is no power in that execution... Fast or slow.
    Sean

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    This is one of thsoe, "I'm not willing to unlearn the old way" techs for me. The journal describes the frictional pull with shape of the crane to pull the guys head towards you...but when I first learned TS, it was the downard rake off the palm heel, fingers dragging downward on the ocular orbits and frictionally pulling on the bony orbit/cheekbone complex, that brought the opponents head forward and down.

    That whole crane thing just looks out of place and pointless to me; like it inherently invites one or requires one to slow down and back off at key points where we ought to up intensity, not dampen it.

    Additionally, I would seek to make sure the palm heel is delivered in a straight forward thrusting manner...doesn't look as pretty, but does a better job of cancelling his forward momentum in the Z (front to back) plane (as well as utilizing the momentum of the borrowed force to support the strike...one of the principle lessons for this tech.), and snapping back the head on the spine. The elbows and backnuckle could use some better AOI on their targets; some rudimentary on-the-go chambering within the paths of the orbits ideally described within the tech would be a nice addition; better body back-up behind the blows; and a new gi.

    Thanks for the continued courage in putting it out there to an often hostile gallery of critics,

    Dave
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    profesormental is offline
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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    HEY!!

    I liked the gi! It looks cool!!

    Also, this tech, like many others, if you catch the full force of a push it seems a bit hard to pull it off as is. I think it has been discussed before.

    The crane hand I learned to use as a kind of shoulder lock, since the vector I pulled on was in the direction towards my hip. This was to expose the next target... the ribs...

    Fun technique for me. Always liked it.

    And in a gi that cool, even better!

    Juan M. Mercado

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    I like this video clip. It looks a lot like the technique as I know and practice it. If I may, here are a couple of things that my instructor has addressed to me with this technique.

    The first and last moves are the same. Over and over he has said this, to me and others. I still don't get quite what he means, but, it seems generally about getting my right fist to my right hip in two places in this technique. First with the frictional pull -- pull all the way to my hip. Second, after the outward elbow back kuckle, preceeding the uppercut. This gives me the full line of travel for the following strikes.

    Also, my instructor has coached me on the targets. The outward elbow strikes the floating ribs and the back knuckle strike goes to the kidney. This target selection seems awkward at first, but we want the kidney strike to open the target for the upper cut.

    Oh, and .... ... I am not so big a fan of the gi.

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    I initially learned it with the linear palm heel strike, but over the years and after experimenting with it and increasing the speed of the attack I found a more natural response was to borrow the force of the push and simply allow my hand to "float" up. As it does so, it travels more on an arc in a circular fashion and ends up being more of a rising palm heel smash that connects under the side of the jaw instead of straight forward into the chin.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    I initially learned it with the linear palm heel strike, but over the years and after experimenting with it and increasing the speed of the attack I found a more natural response was to borrow the force of the push and simply allow my hand to "float" up. As it does so, it travels more on an arc in a circular fashion and ends up being more of a rising palm heel smash that connects under the side of the jaw instead of straight forward into the chin.
    That's all fine and dandy, but what do you think of the gi? The Gi, man! The gi!!
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    That's all fine and dandy, but what do you think of the gi? The Gi, man! The gi!!
    I think Jefro needs to learn to sew. lol
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    bujuts is offline
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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    We'd discussed this a month or two ago on Technique of the Month. He was (and is) my take on this technique. I rather like this one too .

    Quote Originally Posted by bujuts View Post
    I agree with Amy on her version of the pin. We call it and "umbilical check". What she's doing by hooking her wrist over the assailant's is creating the alignment to activate the much stronger latissimus group. If you attempt to pin with your palm towards yourself, all you have is a bicep to support the action. Note this only works when you can keep your elbow close to your side, and therefore it doesn't work as well against a cross grab, but that's another topic.

    This technique brings up a subject we've been talking about in another thread: http://www.kenpotalk.com/forum/showt...8143#post38143. The subject is how to generate power moving forward. For reasons I explained, and anyone can see, "stepping" forward lacks power, primarily because the process of stepping (contracting the left calf muscle) is insufficient to propel the mass.

    The "trigger" in this technique is obviously the shove. This creates rotation which fuels the palm strike. But if while rotating you rotate your left foot to the 10:30 / 4:30 line, you will have not only captured the angle of the neutral bow you are about to adopt, but you will have engaged your left quadraceps to be able to support and propel your mass forward. A simple test of this phenomena of "rotating to engage", rather than the popular method of "stepping to rotate", can be observed easily against resistance. In other words, if your footwork will not carry you into forward into a neutral bow while someone is applying resistance against you, you are missing out on power.

    I agree with Mr. Seabrook on the use of the knee. As we are now able to propel ourselves forward using that rotated left foot, the right foot may spring up (activated from the right calf, not be lifted up) and thrust a (now structurally supported) knee strike. I use this as well, and think it works great. My thing is that I'm tall, and for most people this knee is a depth strike to the pelvic girdle, rather than a rising shot to the groin. Fine by me .

    The last thing I believe is important is the palm strike. I do it as described previously, rising into the chin, and thrusting to the depth. The only thing I do at the end of that action is I angle the strike to turn their head over their right shoulder, creating a spinal lock. Moving through the jaw, this sets up a most wonderful dropping elbow into the right clavicle (not an available target unless they are lower than you - another reason for the knee).

    I work this to where I time the pin on my initial (triggered) rotation. My palm strike through the jaw to create that spinal lock an knee are parallel actions in the depth zone, activated and propelled by my left leg. I time the elbow to hit the collar bone to hit when my right leg hits the neutral bow (gravity).

    From there, you're in. The rest is just icing. I like to end the technique wth a rising elbow through the jaw, to an an overhand inside-outside break of the right arm, aided by a right knee check.

    Great technique, many lessons in there. Good discussion
    Salute,

    Steven Brown
    UKF

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    *ahem* Mr. Brown? How'd you like the gi?

    For the record (to the forum), I'm only obsessed with the gi because I had one just like it; arms got ripped off sparring randori with a judo club. Apparently, KI heavyweight kenpo gi's are not intended for refusing throws.

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

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    bujuts is offline
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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dave in da house View Post
    *ahem* Mr. Brown? How'd you like the gi?

    For the record (to the forum), I'm only obsessed with the gi because I had one just like it; arms got ripped off sparring randori with a judo club. Apparently, KI heavyweight kenpo gi's are not intended for refusing throws.

    D.
    Been there, done that. Course a short sleeve gi in Phoenix has its advantages come summer time.

    Really, though, I liked the gi better than the execution of the technique. I'm not a "...but that's the way Mr. Parker did it, eh, I think...." kind of dude either.

    Better living through hitting our fellow humans,

    steven Brown
    UKF

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    We started working this with a straight palm (eye poke) rake then to the bicep. The straight strike when done correctly moves the head back so far it pretty much ends it ... especially if you can get the eye on that movement.

    Good focus on your 1st major movment too.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    someone pointed something out to me about "Triggered Salute" that really made me think, and I prefer a modified initial move.

    The very first movement, the left hand pins the attacking hand to the chest as you pivot-step forward. That's fine IF the hand is grabbing, but this is against a shove. When you pin it to your chest you are merely guiding their hand to your body and or face. Fighting happens at a very fast pace, a hand coming toward you at 'shove' speed looks a WHOLE LOT like a palm strike/slap or a punch with the hand not yet having closed. Especially if you intend your footwork (the pivoting step forward) to carry you to 12:00, I'd rather not step into a punch/palm slam that's I'm GUIDING to me!
    Oy-Vey...!!

    ..something to think about....!!!

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    John
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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate View Post
    We started working this with a straight palm (eye poke) rake then to the bicep. The straight strike when done correctly moves the head back so far it pretty much ends it ... especially if you can get the eye on that movement.
    I would definately prefer a heel palm to the chin over a finger thrust. There are many hard, HARD bones around the eye sockets. If the finger thrust is not dead-on accurate, I can see many broken fingers. And, that may stop the technique, but on the other side. Jammed fingers hurt.

    Regardless of the strike, yes, the first move absolutley lays out the attacker; full extention on both my arm and his arm ... and he is looking at the ceiling - or the far wall. (I know we aren't supposed to lock out a joint, but this is one place where I actually would consider it.)

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    someone pointed something out to me about "Triggered Salute" that really made me think, and I prefer a modified initial move.

    The very first movement, the left hand pins the attacking hand to the chest as you pivot-step forward. That's fine IF the hand is grabbing, but this is against a shove. When you pin it to your chest you are merely guiding their hand to your body and or face. Fighting happens at a very fast pace, a hand coming toward you at 'shove' speed looks a WHOLE LOT like a palm strike/slap or a punch with the hand not yet having closed. Especially if you intend your footwork (the pivoting step forward) to carry you to 12:00, I'd rather not step into a punch/palm slam that's I'm GUIDING to me!
    Oy-Vey...!!

    ..something to think about....!!!

    Your Brother
    John
    So do "delayed sword" and go home quicker and it works from any straight attack from that side.

    Mr. Pick showed us his version of delayed sword and it would end it. I am a big dude, he was being nice and it rocked me.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by michaeledward View Post
    I would definately prefer a heel palm to the chin over a finger thrust. There are many hard, HARD bones around the eye sockets. If the finger thrust is not dead-on accurate, I can see many broken fingers. And, that may stop the technique, but on the other side. Jammed fingers hurt.

    Regardless of the strike, yes, the first move absolutley lays out the attacker; full extention on both my arm and his arm ... and he is looking at the ceiling - or the far wall. (I know we aren't supposed to lock out a joint, but this is one place where I actually would consider it.)
    I agree but heel palm straight not off at a side angle ... then if the eye strike is there take it
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate View Post
    So do "delayed sword" and go home quicker and it works from any straight attack from that side.

    Mr. Pick showed us his version of delayed sword and it would end it. I am a big dude, he was being nice and it rocked me.
    yeah, delayed sword is good, but then you lose the GOOD vocab that's to be had, and the principles that triggered salute emparts so much better! What happens when you have no room behind you to move back to 6:00???

    nah....I don't advocate throwing out the baby with the bath-water...!
    Keep the tech, but there's a better opening move with the left hand!
    I say it's a left outward waiters tray parry!
    give it a shot.

    Your Brother
    John
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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother John View Post
    yeah, delayed sword is good, but then you lose the GOOD vocab that's to be had, and the principles that triggered salute emparts so much better! What happens when you have no room behind you to move back to 6:00???

    nah....I don't advocate throwing out the baby with the bath-water...!
    Keep the tech, but there's a better opening move with the left hand!
    I say it's a left outward waiters tray parry!
    give it a shot.

    Your Brother
    John
    Yep, I love that parry too, one of my favorites. My main problem is why attack the side of the jaw or temple when I can palm heel straight and move the head back with my proper body mechanics, torque, MoG etc and knock the heck outta him with the first major movement?

    Control the head, control the body.

    Been working allot of non-compliant training recently ... love it.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Triggered Salute

    No problem! Good move.
    But: (not disagreeing, just pointing something out) a well placed inward palm-heel to the jaw (diagonal up and in) Does control the head, very well.

    Also: I think that the inward palm-heel to the jaw sets up other (follow up) moves better and lends itself to better more fluid delivery of force to and through the target.

    but hey....I say work both.
    it's all good.

    Yes, working against resistance opens eyes about a lot!
    ....keep up the good work......!

    Your Brother
    John
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