View Poll Results: Would you hit someone if they offended you?

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  • No, it's only acceptable when physically threatened

    13 59.09%
  • Yes, the creed says, "..my principles or my honor"

    2 9.09%
  • Maybe, depends on how far they went

    7 31.82%
  • Undecided: I have no idea

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Thread: Self Discipline?

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    Default Self Discipline?

    Okay....rant coming...

    I just saw a guy on the news protesting the funeral of a U.S. soldier holding a sign that said, "Thank God For Dead Soldiers." I might add that many funerals are being interupted by this "Baptist" ...oh yeah...a supposed "Christian" organization....thanking their "God" for death.

    ....sigh......breathe.....now....I just had to ask myself, had I been within sight of that guy could I have restrained myself from beating him into a bloody pulp?

    I am a U.S. vet number one. Number two, regardless of mine or anyone elses view on the "War" the rejoicing of death, especially that of a soldier, is inexcusable. These mean and women have volunteered to ensure you can sleep safely at night at the risk of thier own lives. They do not make the policies and to rejoice in their deaths simply puts me over the edge.

    What makes it worse is, this group is claiming that "god" is killing our soldiers as a punishment for the U.S. accepting homosexual behavior. WTF?!?!?

    Is there anything that truely tests your self-discipline? According to the creed, we shouldn't use our skills to bully but instead to defend....sometimes to defend our "principles"....so... would you agree that this person needed a beat down or should this type of behavior be ignored?

    If you were within reach of this person, would you pummel them or let it go? If you don't care about this particular subject, would you feel justified in smacking someone that did offend one of your sensitivities if you did not feel physically threatened?

    Thoughts?
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Ė Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    Okay here goes...

    I voted no, only under physical threat.

    I agree whole heartedly that to rejoice the death of anyone, especially one who volunteered to take up arms to defend you is sickeningly wrong. Yes the creed states that we should defend our principles, and yes, such a statement is against my principles. To be blunt it ******* Pisses me off to hear someone say such a thing, and would enjoy nothing more than smacking them and then dropping them just outside the green zone with a nice target painted on their head.

    People are going to say outrageous things, things specifically to provoke anger. Again nothing would make me feel better than to hold a public beating then tar and feather this jerk, but the only thing that it would accomplish is that i would feel better... and be in jail. His opinion would be unchanged at best, worse, it would be more firmly cemented. Striking out does not erase his words, nor heal any pain caused by them. So take a deep breath, count to ten and let it go.

    'I may disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it'

    We all are granted rights by the constitution, which includes free speech. To use this right to degrade the sacrifice that others have given for that freedom is deplorable. Equally deplorable would be to take away a person's rights for saying it.

    Hearing one's opinion does not supplant your own.

    Hold to your principles, but do so in a way that will have a positive impact.



    To sum it up... you can't beat the opinion out of or into someone.
    Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Okay....rant coming...

    I just saw a guy on the news protesting the funeral of a U.S. soldier holding a sign that said, "Thank God For Dead Soldiers." I might add that many funerals are being interupted by this "Baptist" ...oh yeah...a supposed "Christian" organization....thanking their "God" for death.

    ....sigh......breathe.....now....I just had to ask myself, had I been within sight of that guy could I have restrained myself from beating him into a bloody pulp?

    I am a U.S. vet number one. Number two, regardless of mine or anyone elses view on the "War" the rejoicing of death, especially that of a soldier, is inexcusable. These mean and women have volunteered to ensure you can sleep safely at night at the risk of thier own lives. They do not make the policies and to rejoice in their deaths simply puts me over the edge.

    What makes it worse is, this group is claiming that "god" is killing our soldiers as a punishment for the U.S. accepting homosexual behavior. WTF?!?!?

    Is there anything that truely tests your self-discipline? According to the creed, we shouldn't use our skills to bully but instead to defend....sometimes to defend our "principles"....so... would you agree that this person needed a beat down or should this type of behavior be ignored?

    If you were within reach of this person, would you pummel them or let it go? If you don't care about this particular subject, would you feel justified in smacking someone that did offend one of your sensitivities if you did not feel physically threatened?

    Thoughts?
    Well I am one of those people that looks at both sides of the coin. I am also a vet, and I hold my fellow military family in very high regard. Every one that joins the military swears an oath to uphold and protect the constitution. Sometimes that oath carries a heavy burden.

    On the other side of that coin that same oath that every military person took grants the people of this nation the freedom to protest. Even in a situation like this where these people are acting in a manner that is low, disrespectful, shameful, and dishonorable. For good or for bad they have the protected right to protest peacefully. Iím in no way stating that I agree with their trash, and hate that they are spreading.

    Then I put on another of my hats, my Christian hat. I have a long ways to go in my walk with Christ, I have much I donít understand and will never know until the day I die. But it still amazes me at how people act and speak evil and try to make it look as though they are God fearing people. And act on behalf of God in this world. Iíll stop there as I didnít post this to discuss religion. Just to make note that I completely disagree with what these people are spreading.

    On the question of is there anything, or even this situation, does it test my self discipline. Honestly yes, I canít say with 100% certainty how I would act if I was laying a friend or family member to rest and they stood just outside acting like this. I would like to think I would try to peacefully ask them to leave, but I canít say for sure. I donít know for sure what I would do in that situation. I think people should stop and think, just because something is legal, is it right?
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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    The right to say and act as you wish does not relenquish you from the consequences of doing so and/or reprocusions of your behavior.

    In the state of GA, certain "speech" can be viewed as an actual assault and/or be viewed under the law as justifiable provocation and thereby justify a physical response.

    Last night I was confronted by a drunk in a bar that was obnoxious and I was pretty proud of the fact that I had enough discipline not to beat the snot out of him. However, I'm not sure that I could excercise the same restraint given these circumstances...... I just don't know. I'd like to think that I could be "bigger" than that...but I really don't know.

    I appreciate where you're coming from. I really don't endorse unnecessary violence, but when I saw that guy on TV my knee-jerk reaction was to want to shove his sign up his anal cavity. Do I need more training?
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Ė Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    Wicked good post, Celtic.

    These aren't protests of funerals, IMO, they are proselytizations of funerals done by very selfish people.

    They sure know what buttons to push, that's for sure...and to disrupt the funeral of a soldier is certainly a way to catch a lot of attention. There are many folks in the U.S. that feel grief upon hearing a soldier was killed.

    Although I personally feel that these behaviours are absolutely vile and that the people that indulge themselves are horrid, I don't think I would smack 'em. All that would do would just feed their greed.

    Would I get in their face? Probably...especially if I knew I was being a buffer between the proselytizer and the grieving family. If pushed, I may say something that I wouldn't normally say, but I don't see myself coming to blows.

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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    Wicked good post, Celtic.

    These aren't protests of funerals, IMO, they are proselytizations of funerals done by very selfish people.

    They sure know what buttons to push, that's for sure...and to disrupt the funeral of a soldier is certainly a way to catch a lot of attention. There are many folks in the U.S. that feel grief upon hearing a soldier was killed.

    Although I personally feel that these behaviours are absolutely vile and that the people that indulge themselves are horrid, I don't think I would smack 'em. All that would do would just feed their greed.

    Would I get in their face? Probably...especially if I knew I was being a buffer between the proselytizer and the grieving family. If pushed, I may say something that I wouldn't normally say, but I don't see myself coming to blows.
    I just learned that they have actually been showing up at the funerals! Can you imagine what that does to the family of these fallen soldiers? It's not enough to have lost a loved one, but these families have to deal with these "righteous" protestors holding up signs saying "thank God for dead soldiers."

    You all are by far better disciplined than I. If I saw someone disrespecting a soldier and their family like that in thier moment of grief it would be Beat-Down Time.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Ė Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    On the other side of these occurances is the group of folks called the Patriot Guard. A group of motorcycle riders who conduct counter-protest demonstrations and assist the grieving families. They often place themselves in between the members of the "church" and the fallen hero's family.

    Viva la Guard!

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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    I just learned that they have actually been showing up at the funerals! Can you imagine what that does to the family of these fallen soldiers? It's not enough to have lost a loved one, but these families have to deal with these "righteous" protestors holding up signs saying "thank God for dead soldiers."

    You all are by far better disciplined than I. If I saw someone disrespecting a soldier and their family like that in thier moment of grief it would be Beat-Down Time.
    I can totally understand the sentiment. I can't think of many things that are lower than exploiting a soldier's funeral for a selfish indulgence. But if I indulge myself in physical violence...then I may very well be stooping to their level.

    Their sign, however, is fair game!!


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    Exclamation Re: Self Discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Okay....rant coming...

    What makes it worse is, this group is claiming that "god" is killing our soldiers as a punishment for the U.S. accepting homosexual behavior. WTF?!?!?

    Is there anything that truely tests your self-discipline? According to the creed, we shouldn't use our skills to bully but instead to defend....sometimes to defend our "principles"....so... would you agree that this person needed a beat down or should this type of behavior be ignored?

    Thoughts?
    The Phelps do that stuff, is that the group you are referring to? If it is then I have already had a run in with the group. Funny thing is that they left when I confronted them. Apparently that particular group of "believers" were not so devoted to their beliefs when the thought of being pounded into the pavement entered into the equation...LOL I wanted to slap some sense into them. You don't invade the privacy of a family funeral to push your beliefs on someone. As a Marine you bet I would put a hurt on someone that would do something like that at a soldiers funeral. They have a right to their opinion but a funeral is a sacred thing and emotions already run high at a funeral as it is. Grief can quickly turn to uncontrollable anger if someone that is grieving is provoked. I am not saying that I would be right in pounding the protestor but I know I would not be able to contain myself when it comes to a soldiers funeral. Soldier's families endure enough already without the added aggrevation or having to endure someone else's "protest" during their son's/daughter's funeral.

    I have a stong dislike for the Phelps for this very reason. They have no sense of timing or when the appropriate time to express your views is. I think they do it for dramatic effect. Well it would be dramatic effect if they were to be televised getting their A$$ handed to them alright. Cops hate having to deal with them and know that trouble follows them everywhere they go.
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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    This video of Phelps should make you ckuckle:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cN2pB3MCE

    This family has more than a few screws loose. But they were just sued and a jdgment fopr $11 million was awarded to the father of a marine whose funeral they picketed.

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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Okay....rant coming...

    I just saw a guy on the news protesting the funeral of a U.S. soldier holding a sign that said, "Thank God For Dead Soldiers." I might add that many funerals are being interupted by this "Baptist" ...oh yeah...a supposed "Christian" organization....thanking their "God" for death.



    Thoughts?
    Not all Baptist are included in this group, nor are they sanctioned by the Southern Baptist Confrence. I am a Baptist,vet, and many who are Baptist are in the military,have children in the military,and have lost family in the military. Freedom is being able to reconize someone who screams at the top of their lungs, that which you spent a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.

    Do I agree with the protest NO!!!. Am I a Christian (Baptist) yes. I just wonder what will happen when someone protest the life of someone they loved and rejoice in their death.

    No matter what we say or do to them matters little.Their actions will be judged.
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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    No matter what we say or do to them matters little.Their actions will be judged.
    You said exactly what I was thinking, not a fun day when judgment day comes.
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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    I voted no (at least I like to think I have enough control). It's been said that the number one obstacle to people coming to Christ is Christians. This is another sad example of man going wrong and people following that man. I thank God for people like the Patriot Guard. On the other hand if such a protest got physical or in any way threatened anyone (especially the widow or family) then it's a different situation.

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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    This has nothing to do with religion, IMO. Just greedy, self-centered people that don't care who they hurt or what they have to exploit to get attention.

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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Kaur View Post
    This has nothing to do with religion, IMO. Just greedy, self-centered people that don't care who they hurt or what they have to exploit to get attention.
    I agree, there has been a lot of evil done through history in the name of Religion. The simple truth is this: mankind has a sin nature and will continue to exploit that which benifits them.
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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by stone_dragone View Post
    On the other side of these occurances is the group of folks called the Patriot Guard. A group of motorcycle riders who conduct counter-protest demonstrations and assist the grieving families. They often place themselves in between the members of the "church" and the fallen hero's family.

    Viva la Guard!
    I knew there was a reason I liked bikers.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjpregler View Post
    This video of Phelps should make you ckuckle:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cN2pB3MCE

    This family has more than a few screws loose. But they were just sued and a jdgment fopr $11 million was awarded to the father of a marine whose funeral they picketed.
    Didn't make me chuckle but it about made me physically ill. I have little to no patience for such hate speech. That preacher needs to turn his focus inward and take a good long look at himself before passing judgement on others. There's something dark and lacking in that man's soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    Not all Baptist are included in this group, nor are they sanctioned by the Southern Baptist Confrence. I am a Baptist,vet, and many who are Baptist are in the military,have children in the military,and have lost family in the military. Freedom is being able to reconize someone who screams at the top of their lungs, that which you spent a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.

    Do I agree with the protest NO!!!. Am I a Christian (Baptist) yes. I just wonder what will happen when someone protest the life of someone they loved and rejoice in their death.

    No matter what we say or do to them matters little.Their actions will be judged.
    Niether are all muslims terrorist and suicide bombers. It's not about religion really, it's about a lack of respect for one's fellow human being. Religion is the excuse because these cowardly types won't take responsibility for their own bad behavior and hate.

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Dear Kenpo brothers and sisters:

    You might want to ask this question again if these "protestors" were present at the funeral of your son or daughter. Yes, I'm a Christian also but I can not promise that my emotions would not get the best of me.

    We actually had an encounter with this group in Mayville, Wisconsin. The Sherriffs dept kept these people at bay and avoided a confrontation. Shortly afterward Wisconsin passed a law prohibiiting protestors from coming nearer than 1,000? feet to mourners at a funeral.

    Nelson Kari
    Good for Wisconsin. Next time you see these butt-holes you can also thank them for causing your tax money to get tied up in passing needless legislation instead of being spent on schools, medical needs, feeding the hungry, etc, etc, etc.

    I'm glad Wisconsin took the initiative to try and prevent this type of poor behavior but it's a sad fact that it was necessary in the first place!
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Ė Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    I voted physical confrontation only. That certainly doesn't mean I wouldn't relish the opportunity to beat the living **** out of these people, but it's just not me. The guilt I would feel afterwards would outweigh the pleasure of exercising my "freedom of speech" on these peoples persons.
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post

    Niether are all muslims terrorist and suicide bombers.
    So you are associating Baptist with muslim terrorist and suicide bombers.
    Dont know if thats the intent of your statement,however thats the way it reads, and thats the way I took it.
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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by MARSHALLS KENPO View Post
    So you are associating Baptist with muslim terrorist and suicide bombers.
    Dont know if thats the intent of your statement,however thats the way it reads, and thats the way I took it.
    Not at all.

    I was actually attempting to further your point that just because that group claims to be "Baptist" does not mean that their behavior is indicative of all "Baptists." Point being all Baptist aren't idiot ass funeral crashing hatemongers just as all Muslims aren't suicide bombers (if they were then there wouldn't be any left now would there. LOL)

    My point was that saying all Muslims are terrorists would be the same as saying all Christians are just like these people, or David Koreshs' group in Texas, or the Jim Jones kool-aid bunch, or the Jim Baker PTL wife-swapping clan, etc, etc. They're a small group of idiots getting lots of attention and making all people associated, by name or otherwise, look bad as well.

    Them claiming to be a "Christian" group actually makes their behavior even more reprehensible considering it goes against the tennents of Christianity.

    I know some "real" Christians that really do try to live their lives right, and they're nothing like these folks.

    I hate that you misinterpretted my post. That is not at all what I meant and I would not want to offend you.

    ....unless you're one of these funeral crashing ya-hoo's...then I don't care if you're offended or not..lol
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    Default Re: Self Discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler View Post
    Not at all.

    I was actually attempting to further your point that just because that group claims to be "Baptist" does not mean that their behavior is indicative of all "Baptists." Point being all Baptist aren't idiot ass funeral crashing hatemongers just as all Muslims aren't suicide bombers (if they were then there wouldn't be any left now would there. LOL)

    My point was that saying all Muslims are terrorists would be the same as saying all Christians are just like these people, or David Koreshs' group in Texas, or the Jim Jones kool-aid bunch, or the Jim Baker PTL wife-swapping clan, etc, etc. They're a small group of idiots getting lots of attention and making all people associated, by name or otherwise, look bad as well.

    Them claiming to be a "Christian" group actually makes their behavior even more reprehensible considering it goes against the tennents of Christianity.

    I know some "real" Christians that really do try to live their lives right, and they're nothing like these folks.

    I hate that you misinterpretted my post. That is not at all what I meant and I would not want to offend you.

    ....unless you're one of these funeral crashing ya-hoo's...then I don't care if you're offended or not..lol

    Your a good man, and thank you for your clarification on the post. You are one I respect and consider a friend.

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