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Thread: Dirty Fighting

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    Default Dirty Fighting

    How do you think the training of UFC fighters would be affected if they reverted to no weight classes and true NHB? How do you think thier strategy would be affected? Do you think it would matter?
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    I think it would shatter their comfy little world. They would definitely have the skills but they would be caught by one of the many holes the UFC has left them with. Just groin shots and eye gouges would be enough to catch them off guard. not to mention having to worry about getting their face stomped on when they go down. I think it would just take some getting used to for them. But don't get me wrong, I have great respect for anyone with the guts to climb into a ring/cage.
    "A warrior's ultimate act is to put down his sword"

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    true NHB? I'd win at least my first match when my opponent is twitching on the ground with two wire leads in his body from my tazer...


    Now thats dirty fighting....


    HAHAHAA

    and then I'd send in the rabid Opossum to bite off his face.
    "Do you have any bactine? Some of this blood is mine."

    "Dear Die-ary, today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender. I'm wondering if, maybe, there really is something wrong with me."

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    How do you think the training of UFC fighters would be affected if they reverted to no weight classes and true NHB? How do you think thier strategy would be affected? Do you think it would matter?
    I think most, and again I reiterate "most", lightweight fighters would be in big trouble against the heavyweights.

    About strategy.... I know so many Kenpoists that claim that the UFC has so many rules that it limits what they can do. My honest opinion about that comment is...boo hoo hoo....can you fight or not?

    I know a lot of people will disagree with me here, but I believe that one's strategy would actually not change much.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    How do you think the training of UFC fighters would be affected if they reverted to no weight classes and true NHB? How do you think thier strategy would be affected? Do you think it would matter?
    I think if you take a look at the first eight or so UFC it was pretty close to NHB. Groin was legal and no rounds. Remember the clock counted up not down! So it was possible to fight for 20 minutes straight!

    I think the only rule was no eye gouges? Nobody wore gloves either. Remember the karate guy knocking the sumo guys teeth out? or 15 un-answered hammerfists to the groin? Yeouch!

    Personally I enjoyed watching it much more back then but I have much respect for the conditioning these UFC athletes have achieved.

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    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudo_karate
    I think if you take a look at the first eight or so UFC it was pretty close to NHB. Groin was legal and no rounds. Remember the clock counted up not down! So it was possible to fight for 20 minutes straight!

    I think the only rule was no eye gouges? Nobody wore gloves either. Remember the karate guy knocking the sumo guys teeth out? or 15 un-answered hammerfists to the groin? Yeouch!

    Personally I enjoyed watching it much more back then but I have much respect for the conditioning these UFC athletes have achieved.

    Salute,
    well i hear what you are saying.. but i have to agree with Mr.Seabrook..

    i loved the ufc back in the day, but was dissapointed when it went to japan becaus usa felt it was too violent..

    i like boxing it has merrit. it is challanging... i also like wrestling (folk, greco roman, freestyle) not wwe either.. they are competitive, and a good challange to one individual to another..

    nhb fighting is cool... but i like the rules that have been put in place to be able to have the ufc here in the states...its almost like looking at motorsports.(racing) it was awsome back in the day but it has evolved leaps and bounds in safty and performance..
    im glad that the ufc has also grown.. it is a "safer" fight for these gladiators..

    are there rules on the streets??? no... will people fight fairly on the streets??? no... can some one from the ufc, boxing, wrestiling, judo,kenpo backgrounds hold their own on the street with no rules.. sure...

    if you can fight with rules, you will beable to fight on the street...imo..


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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Crippler
    How do you think the training of UFC fighters would be affected if they reverted to no weight classes and true NHB? How do you think thier strategy would be affected? Do you think it would matter?
    The new breed of UFC fighters train the way they plan on fighting.
    Conditioning their bodies to fight in 5 minute blasts makes the sport less of a chess game like it was in the beginning. Someone like Royce could take a guy that was amped up and make him quickly deplete his energy reserves before he went to work submitting them his way.
    Fighting non-stop requires a different strategy. If someone gets you down on the ground and you spend your time trying to release yourself, your stand-up game will suffer because your legs will eat up most their energy trying to get back up. If you flail your arms around trying to land a lucky shot, they will quickly tire and inhibit your ability to defend against arm submissions.
    The "no time limit", in my opinion, is the better gauge at determining who the better fighter is.
    If you have a 250lb guy and put him in a situation with a talented 180-200lb guy that has endurance, my money is going on the lighter guy and his ability to wear down his opponent physically.
    In the course of 2 or 3 5 minute rounds it would be easy for the bigger guy to dominate his opponent and perhaps outscore him on the judges card, especially in a situation that demands that the fighters keep moving or get broken up and restarted.
    There are some fighters in the UFC right now that would probably fare better if there was no time limit and no stoppage.......and I think there are a lot of guys that wouldnt be able to keep up if they went that way.
    The rule changes have made the UFC more sporting, and thats not really a bad thing. MMA is not a bad thing, but it isnt martial art , it's martial sport.

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    I am a huge fan of the UFC and have been live to at least 2 events both at Mohegan Sun Casino.
    The sport has evolved a lot I would not call it NHB anymore but neither is full contact karate NHB,The point is there are too many politicians and activists out there to keep real NHB alive for long.
    If they had not changed the rules of the UFC they would have been shut down a long time ago for good.
    On weight Classes I believe if the weight differance is not great it can be made up for but 75 to 100 lbs forget it,He better float like a butterfly and sting like a bee and hope the big guy does not have a fly Swatter.
    Also about 5 minute rounds vs no time limit, how many times have you ever been in a fight that lasted longer then 5 to 10 minutes for me never they were always over in less then 5 minutes.
    Just another Lifelong student Walking the Endless journey of Kenpo.(and Loving it)

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    I still think it would take a lot of adjustment for them. I'm not trying to say that the UFC fighters would not be able to handle the changes, but I couldn't tell you how many times I've watched a UFC match and thought "Well, if there wasn't any rules, the opposite guy would be in the dominant postition right now." Something as simple as headbutts could make a difference in their stategy. Next time you watch a match see if you can pick out any of those moments. If you get passed the small rules the no time limit rule will definitely weed out a lot of fighters. I've noticed that generally UFC fighters don't do to well in Pride. I think it's due to the fact that the first round in Pride is 15 minutes long which is as long as a whole UFC match split up into three rounds. And the UFC guys know this going into it but they didn't seem to adjust their strategy much. Who's to say if the UFC fighters jumped into some NHB matches they wouldn't do the same?
    "A warrior's ultimate act is to put down his sword"

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    Lot's of interesting perspectives. Personally, I think UFC 6 was the last really great one. I still watch it on Spike but rarely will I purchase a PPV. The last one I bought was when Shamrock came out of retirement to fight Kimo because I had money on Shamrock. That was a good payday!

    Anyway, we'll definately see how "old" school UFC measures up to the "new breed" at UFC 60 when Matt Hughes faces off against Royce Gracie. I will probably buy that one.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    Its sad I loved the Old UFC fighters like Ken Shamrock but there day is done at least for most.
    Ken Shamrock has shown how he has not stayed up with the times his training routines are outdated and Tito Ortiz made a fool of him last time they fought Beating him soundly every round and I dont see a differant outcome for there next meeting. (even though I would love to see Ken Win)
    My point is all forms of combat are constantly evolving the ground game is just the latest Ed Parker wrote about this in his Infinite Insight Books and it is something to keep in mind.
    In my opinion there are always pieces of knowledge in every form of combat that can be added or that at least have merit and need to be looked examined.
    Just another Lifelong student Walking the Endless journey of Kenpo.(and Loving it)

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    As a MMA competitor and Kenpoist
    I think two things, there can never be a
    No Holds Barred fight in a civilized society
    I mean sure it seemed that way in the begining
    and it wasn't as popular now. No stepping into that
    ring/octagon/cage is a pretty rough thing to do,
    I mean heck even getting on the mat at your local dojo
    all come down to one thing...ITS GOING TO HURT LOL
    The thing is to make your opponent hurt MORE. IMO
    If you take any Kenpoist (Martial artist or MMA fighter
    and tell him, Your in a street fight go ahead and eye gauge
    and groin kicks, i'm pretty sure they'd make good use of it. Heck i would
    no doubt about it, On the street you fight to live,I think both arts
    prepare their students to take advantage of what's available
    .BTW i still cosider myself a martial artist(i aint no dang martial sports thing) LOL

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    Not sure if i listed both things, I hate it when i confuse myself LOL

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    Steve W Spry Guest

    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    I am at a complete lose of this meaning "Dirty Fighting" what it's origin and its purpose.

    My Thoughts

    Steve Spry

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    Than the one with power and speed got more chance to win than just power or speed. As power is necessary to beat the person heavier than you and speed to get him faster.

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve W Spry View Post
    I am at a complete lose of this meaning "Dirty Fighting" what it's origin and its purpose.

    My Thoughts

    Steve Spry
    it means all the attacks that have a stigma of being dishonorable......
    kicking or punching someone in the groin
    poking someone in the eyes
    fishhooking someone
    small joint manipulation
    strikes to the spine
    kicking a downed opponent
    pinching
    scratching
    biting
    etc.

    not to be confused with dirty boxing which is a combination of close in clinch attacks

    as far as the original question which was necroposted.... I think it would do little to change things today as far as the basic strategy goes... right now the winning strategy is to fight to not lose.... take as few risks as possible, stay at your best range, and outwork your opponent.. as far as when it hits the ground i still think it would change very little, some obvious adjustments would be made to protect the groin, orifices, and small joints, but that is a relatively minor adjustment to make.

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyKBoxer View Post
    it means all the attacks that have a stigma of being dishonorable......
    kicking or punching someone in the groin
    poking someone in the eyes
    fishhooking someone
    small joint manipulation
    strikes to the spine
    kicking a downed opponent
    pinching
    scratching
    biting
    etc.

    not to be confused with dirty boxing which is a combination of close in clinch attacks

    as far as the original question which was necroposted.... I think it would do little to change things today as far as the basic strategy goes... right now the winning strategy is to fight to not lose.... take as few risks as possible, stay at your best range, and outwork your opponent.. as far as when it hits the ground i still think it would change very little, some obvious adjustments would be made to protect the groin, orifices, and small joints, but that is a relatively minor adjustment to make.
    Really nice info thank you for sharing it

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyKBoxer View Post
    it means all the attacks that have a stigma of being dishonorable......
    kicking or punching someone in the groin
    poking someone in the eyes
    fishhooking someone
    small joint manipulation
    strikes to the spine
    kicking a downed opponent
    pinching
    scratching
    biting
    It's funny. I teach every one of these things to my students. Most at the beginner level and all by the intermediate level. I'm not concerned with the "stigma of being dishonorable." This stuff works. I want to go home and see my wife again. So I teach it, and I practice it. It's not the entirety of my method of course, but it's in there.


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    "All the time you're arguing over, is this kenpo, is that kenpo, you could be training!"

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    Default Re: Dirty Fighting

    It's funny. I teach every one of these things to my students. Most at the beginner level and all by the intermediate level. I'm not concerned with the "stigma of being dishonorable." This stuff works. I want to go home and see my wife again. So I teach it, and I practice it. It's not the entirety of my method of course, but it's in there.
    I still contend that some of that stuff, not all, I listed are last case scenario things to do, its pretty much what people use when they have totally screwed up everything else... it does not take any real training to use the moves, and you will almost only be in position to use them when you have screwed up already and put yourself into a bad position, anyone who uses these types of moves as their go to moves are just dumb in my opinion, because they either a. want to hurt someone purposefully and are putting themselves into a position to cause trauma, or b. are being stupid and putting themselves in bad environments that they are not suited to be in.
    a highly trained martial artist will have the skills to nullify an opponent without using these types of moves. The cases where any of these moves are justified are a small percentage of the possible for a highly trained martial artist compared to the other options that exist..... its all another tool in the tool box, but in my opinion they are used primarily by those with skill enough to not need them, or are attempted in vain by beginners who can't make them work. desperation moves.... all have a time and a place, but are way overrated, and should only be used in a desperation type situation, which if anyone finds themselves in that mode has already made a bunch of mistakes.

    All fighting is "dirty". That why it's called "fighting" not sport karate, boxing, JJ, or MMA. There are no rules in any fight where one's life or the life of others are threatened.
    semantics. I disagree that all fighting is dirty. Some fighting is necessary, some fighting is fun, some fighting is needed to ease tensions, there are plenty of times when fighting is truely honorable.
    The problem is that the vast majority f the time a persons life is not threatened during a physical confrontation, actually I would say the times that a life is actually truely threatened is a very small minority of times.
    The term dirty has been applied and changed over the years as what is considered appropriate, or honorable has changed.. there was a time when kicking someone in a fight was dirty because all honorable men only used boxing style punches....
    I find it continuously humorous how many of you seem to live in this place where any possible action against you is life threatening, the streets are flooded with rocks, glass, and needles, the bad guys always run in packs with guns and knives, and they all want to kill your families....
    I live in reality. I realize there are bad places and bad people. I keep my family in safe places, and I chose where and when I go to places that might be iffy. Planning for the worst case scenario is one thing, but I think people with that kind of attitude are more apt to end up in jail for unnecessarily injuring or killing a "bad guy" then they are to actually successfully use their skills to fend off a serious life threatening attacker.
    I think alot of you have spent much more time thinking of what you might be attacked by in a worst case scenario then what you might face legally for making a dumb decision.

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