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Thread: Makiwara training

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    Default Makiwara training

    Anyone here routinely train using a traditional makiwara and/or using dit da jow/iron fist linaments??? I am considering building my own and starting to do it every day/other day.

    opinions or experiences???

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    Default Re: Makiwara training

    I did in a previous martial life. Then I learned good alignment in kenpo and found I don't really need the calcification to hit hard. Now I use other forms of impact resistance (100 lb bag or a tire mounted on a wall) that fortifies everything from the knuckles back. I just wear thin gloves or wrap to keep the knuckles from getting skinned, loose at the wrist so as to not permit bad habits. Granted, my knuckles are reasonably conditioned now from those many youthful hours on the makiwara, but frankly I'd get bored stiff doing it now. The classic rear hand punch is bread and butter for those traditional systems from which the makiwara was born, but there are so many more angles and interior structures of the human body to contend with, I just assume spend more time practicing good striking. Salud.
    "Exercise is bunk. If you're healthy, you don't need it. If you're sick, you shouldn't do it." - Sam Clemens

    "Ok...so do that again. But this time don't suck". - An admired kenpo teacher

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    Default Re: Makiwara training

    Thank you SO much for sharing!!!!!

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    Default Re: Makiwara training

    The makiwara is probably the most misunderstood training apparatus ever in karate. Makiwara was part of a complete training program in okinawa that included various other ways to hit objects (including what we would call a heavy bag, and other devices to simulate blocking and punching together) and lifting heavier objects in various ways to develop strength in the body to supplement the training, a couple of these objects are what we would call a barbell and a kettlebell. They also used weighted sandals, which would be similiar to wearing ankle weights while doing kicks and stance training, although having to grip with your foot to hold it on made it more intense than our modern ankle weights. This training also included using herbal medicines to prevent any damage to the joints.

    When karate was exported to Japan, the only thing in the hojo undo (supplementary exercises) that was kept in their training was the makiwara. To a group of young men preparing for military service, maikwara training became very macho and overused in importance. Then fast forward another decade or two, and you have US servicemen going gung ho and wanted to pound on the makiwara as well. Big calloused knuckles became something that was "cool" and many people overtrained their hands and caused problems later in life.

    Now back to the okinawan use of the makiwara. It was taught to give feedback to make sure all the joints are properly aligned in a strike and to help learn how to transmit power into the target. It also helps to strengthen the wrist/forearm to punch stronger. The okinawan masters used to train on the makiwara very often in beginning levels and sparingly later on. Again, only when they noticed something lacking in technique and then they would go back to training on it for awhile. The makiwara should be padded and springy to give resistance to the punch without it causing damage to the bones. You should NEVER train with skinned knuckles on it or punch until your hands are bloody like some people say. IMO knuckle pushups on a hard surface will give you all the skin conditioning you would ever need while strengthening the joints/muscles used for a punch. Again, the makiwara is about alignment and power transfer in how it gives feedback.

    I personally use the makiwara, but also use a good dit da jow as part of the training and know my limits and how to use it properly so as not to cause damage to the hands. Also, using various hand configurations and hand strikes.

    If you want to know more about the okinawan methods of conditioning, I highly recommend the book "Hojo Undo: Power Training for Traditional Karate" by Michael Clarke. ( http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Hojo-U...ords=hojo+undo )
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Makiwara training

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    If you want to know more about the okinawan methods of conditioning, I highly recommend the book "Hojo Undo: Power Training for Traditional Karate" by Michael Clarke. ( http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Hojo-U...ords=hojo+undo )
    I second that recommendation. It is an excellent overview of Hojo Undo and a fascinating read for karate nerds.
    Joel Ellis
    LaGrange, GA

    "This whole thing is about balance and timing." -- Damon Excell

    If you do not consciously form good habits, you will unconsciously form bad ones.

    If it is important, do it every day. If it is not important, donít do it at all. (Dan Gableís coaching philosophy)

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    Default Re: Makiwara training

    Quote Originally Posted by J Ellis View Post
    I second that recommendation. It is an excellent overview of Hojo Undo and a fascinating read for karate nerds.
    did you just call me a nerd?
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Makiwara training

    What kind of Jow or Liniment do you use and where do you get it????

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    The makiwara is probably the most misunderstood training apparatus ever in karate. Makiwara was part of a complete training program in okinawa that included various other ways to hit objects (including what we would call a heavy bag, and other devices to simulate blocking and punching together) and lifting heavier objects in various ways to develop strength in the body to supplement the training, a couple of these objects are what we would call a barbell and a kettlebell. They also used weighted sandals, which would be similiar to wearing ankle weights while doing kicks and stance training, although having to grip with your foot to hold it on made it more intense than our modern ankle weights. This training also included using herbal medicines to prevent any damage to the joints.

    When karate was exported to Japan, the only thing in the hojo undo (supplementary exercises) that was kept in their training was the makiwara. To a group of young men preparing for military service, maikwara training became very macho and overused in importance. Then fast forward another decade or two, and you have US servicemen going gung ho and wanted to pound on the makiwara as well. Big calloused knuckles became something that was "cool" and many people overtrained their hands and caused problems later in life.

    Now back to the okinawan use of the makiwara. It was taught to give feedback to make sure all the joints are properly aligned in a strike and to help learn how to transmit power into the target. It also helps to strengthen the wrist/forearm to punch stronger. The okinawan masters used to train on the makiwara very often in beginning levels and sparingly later on. Again, only when they noticed something lacking in technique and then they would go back to training on it for awhile. The makiwara should be padded and springy to give resistance to the punch without it causing damage to the bones. You should NEVER train with skinned knuckles on it or punch until your hands are bloody like some people say. IMO knuckle pushups on a hard surface will give you all the skin conditioning you would ever need while strengthening the joints/muscles used for a punch. Again, the makiwara is about alignment and power transfer in how it gives feedback.

    I personally use the makiwara, but also use a good dit da jow as part of the training and know my limits and how to use it properly so as not to cause damage to the hands. Also, using various hand configurations and hand strikes.

    If you want to know more about the okinawan methods of conditioning, I highly recommend the book "Hojo Undo: Power Training for Traditional Karate" by Michael Clarke. ( http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Hojo-U...ords=hojo+undo )

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    Default Re: Makiwara training

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    did you just call me a nerd?
    With love and respect, sir. Remember, the book is on my shelf too.
    Joel Ellis
    LaGrange, GA

    "This whole thing is about balance and timing." -- Damon Excell

    If you do not consciously form good habits, you will unconsciously form bad ones.

    If it is important, do it every day. If it is not important, donít do it at all. (Dan Gableís coaching philosophy)

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    Default Re: Makiwara training

    Quote Originally Posted by Entryteam View Post
    What kind of Jow or Liniment do you use and where do you get it????
    I get my Jow from Dale Dugas at Coiling Dragon ( http://www.coilingdragon.com/index.php?main_page=index )
    Mr. Dugas is VERY good about responding to questions of what your training is and what jow will best fit into that training. I have used the Chan Nin Tong from him and had good results with it.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    I get my Jow from Dale Dugas at Coiling Dragon ( http://www.coilingdragon.com/index.php?main_page=index )
    Mr. Dugas is VERY good about responding to questions of what your training is and what jow will best fit into that training. I have used the Chan Nin Tong from him and had good results with it.
    I use the Tiger Exiting The Forest jow from Coiling Dragon. Good stuff.
    Be careful what you say, some may take it the wrong way.

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    Default Re: Makiwara training

    I bought some Jow from the "Seven Gates". I got some Ju Yu Cheung and some Ling Hua Xing. Forearm conditioning and makiwara training to follow....stay tuned.

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