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Thread: Fatal Cross

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    Default Fatal Cross

    Fatal Cross (Front- Two-Hand Low Push)
    1. An attacker at 12 o'clock comes at you with a two-hand low push. .

    2. Step your left foot to 6 o'clock into a right neutral bow facing 12 o'clock as you execute twin outward crane hooks (fingers down) to the inside of your attacker's wrists. Jerk your attacker's arms to you so they travel outside and down past your hips.

    3. Reverse the motion of your hands as you convert them into twin uppercut punches to your attacker's floating ribs.

    4. Upon recoil from the punches, cross your fists and execute twin scissoring backfists to your attacker's jaw.

    5. While your hands are crossed, execute twin scissoring two-finger pokes (right to right; left to left).

    6. With your hands still crossed, drop them onto your attacker's shoulders to act as a gravitational check as you execute a left knee kick to your attacker's groin.

    7. Execute a right knee kick to your attacker's solar plexus.

    8. Land into a right neutral bow facing 12 o'clock as you execute a right inward elbow to your attacker's left jaw as your left hand turns your attacker's left shoulder clockwise so that your attacker's back is towards you.

    9. With your attacker's back to you, have your right hand regrab your attacker's right shoulder as you step your right foot back to 4:30 into a left neutral bow as you use both of your arms to cause your attacker to lose their balance.

    10. As they begin to fall backwards, execute a right knee kick to your attacker's lower spine.

    11. Plant your right foot back to point of origin as you execute a left knee kick to your attacker's right kidney. From the knee strike, execute a left knife-edge kick to the back of your attacker's right knee.

    12. Cross out to 4:30.
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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    Fatal Cross (Front- Two-Hand Low Push)
    1. An attacker at 12 o'clock comes at you with a two-hand low push. .

    2. Step your left foot to 6 o'clock into a right neutral bow facing 12 o'clock as you execute twin outward crane hooks (fingers down) to the inside of your attacker's wrists. Jerk your attacker's arms to you so they travel outside and down past your hips.

    3. Reverse the motion of your hands as you convert them into twin uppercut punches to your attacker's floating ribs.

    4. Upon recoil from the punches, cross your fists and execute twin scissoring backfists to your attacker's jaw.

    5. While your hands are crossed, execute twin scissoring two-finger pokes (right to right; left to left).

    6. With your hands still crossed, drop them onto your attacker's shoulders to act as a gravitational check as you execute a left knee kick to your attacker's groin.

    7. Execute a right knee kick to your attacker's solar plexus.

    8. Land into a right neutral bow facing 12 o'clock as you execute a right inward elbow to your attacker's left jaw as your left hand turns your attacker's left shoulder clockwise so that your attacker's back is towards you.

    9. With your attacker's back to you, have your right hand regrab your attacker's right shoulder as you step your right foot back to 4:30 into a left neutral bow as you use both of your arms to cause your attacker to lose their balance.

    10. As they begin to fall backwards, execute a right knee kick to your attacker's lower spine.

    11. Plant your right foot back to point of origin as you execute a left knee kick to your attacker's right kidney. From the knee strike, execute a left knife-edge kick to the back of your attacker's right knee.

    12. Cross out to 4:30.
    For #2, I use a forward bow.

    For #3, I use twin middle-knuckle shots as I find they fit the ribs nicely, and hurt like...you know. Then between #3 and #4, I check the attacker's arms down from his reaction to the ribs shot.

    Between # 4 and #5, I teach to slap the opponent's arms down from his reaction to the twin backfists, which sets up the twin two-finger eye pokes, as per #5.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
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    1point21Jigowatts is offline
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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    I was taught only slightly different:

    6. Grab onto the shirt with both hands (crossed at the wrist, right over left) and pull him into both knee strikes,

    8. Pivot into a forward rt ntrl bow while the hands make a motion similar to drawing a bowstring (hands still in the crossed lapel grab from #6): pushing right forearm forward while bringing left elbow back to your side. (turns opponent around, and torques his head back as he's stuffed under your forearm. eliminates the need to re-grab in step 9)

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    Smile Re: Fatal Cross

    Some people when doing the technique do grab the shirt with crossed arms (right over left) is I think what you referred to it. There is nothing wrong with grabbing the shirt as a brace, but keep in mind the whole technique starting with the 2nd move is all with crossed arms. You backfist to the ribs, you backfist to the jaw, then you poke in the eyes, all with crossed arms. I don't grab the shirt, but some students at the school I attend do grab the shirt, it is not uncomine.

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    Smile Re: Fatal Cross

    Oh, you were talking about the extension, yes there is a grab when doing the two knees.

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    Drew is offline
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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    I can't be the only one that thinks to apply this technique as written is well...silly, can I?
    A little learning is a dangerous thing;
    drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    and drinking largely sobers us again. --Alexander Pope

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    execkenpo is offline
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    Cool Re: Fatal Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    I can't be the only one that thinks to apply this technique as written is well...silly, can I?
    I can't imagine using this technique. I know many would say that the technique is teaching some principle....it looks neat

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    Madsen is offline
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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    I have a hard time understanding why someone who's P.O.'d at you would attack with a low push. I would think that normally a push would be to the chest or shoulders.

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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Madsen View Post
    I have a hard time understanding why someone who's P.O.'d at you would attack with a low push. I would think that normally a push would be to the chest or shoulders.
    True.

    Probably better suited for an attempted grab which I think would tend to come in little lower than a push as the target for a push is most often the shoulder(s) or chest whereas a grab is often targeted closer to your midsection; especially if the goal is to take you down.

    If you don't know my position on techniques by now...... lol

    In the version I learned at #6 we do a cross blood-choke and pull attacker into a left knee. Totally skipped #7 and planted the left foot back into RNB along the way to transitioning 180 degress into a reverse bow simultaneously executing a right downward elbow to the base of the attacker's skull (as they are bent forward following the left knee to the groin in #6) I do find that particular sequence practical.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    execkenpo is offline
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    Cool Re: Fatal Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Madsen View Post
    I have a hard time understanding why someone who's P.O.'d at you would attack with a low push. I would think that normally a push would be to the chest or shoulders.
    After reading Doc' comments on Circling Wings http://kenpotalk.com/forum/showthrea...345#post100345 the whole idea of this attack happening doesn't seem plausable. I would say Crippler is closer tothe mark when he suggests it's likely for a grab and to take to you down. I imagine the attackers head would be down if they were going for your midsection in which case this technique would not work out as written. I'm going to have to play with this and see. Maybe the attacker is really short and it's a high push for them?

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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    think, a wrestler trying to tackle you, trying ot wrap his arms around your waist. Not so much trying to put his palsm on your belly. So, teh questions I owuld have would be:

    does the wider spread of his arms make a difference?

    does his intention to contact you with his shoulder and knock you backwards (vs trying to shove you with his arms) make a difference?


    yes and yes
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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    think, a wrestler trying to tackle you, trying ot wrap his arms around your waist. Not so much trying to put his palsm on your belly. So, teh questions I owuld have would be:

    does the wider spread of his arms make a difference?

    does his intention to contact you with his shoulder and knock you backwards (vs trying to shove you with his arms) make a difference?


    yes and yes
    By taking this perspective we are no longer looking at a low two hand push as listed in the manual. The defensive actions as listed likely wouldn't work against the attack you are now describing. There is no way the crane hooks are going to stop the forward momentum and you won't have time to get the punches in before you were on your @ss with a big sweaty guy on top of you.

    Where's Doc (or anyone else with his persepective) to jump in here?

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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by execkenpo View Post
    By taking this perspective we are no longer looking at a low two hand push as listed in the manual. The defensive actions as listed likely wouldn't work against the attack you are now describing. There is no way the crane hooks are going to stop the forward momentum and you won't have time to get the punches in before you were on your @ss with a big sweaty guy on top of you.

    Where's Doc (or anyone else with his persepective) to jump in here?
    OK, but let me ask this:
    have you ever thought to, or can you imagine any situation in which you would, execute a "low push" in a fight? Anyone? Bueller?
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    - Doc Chapel

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    jfarnsworth is offline Parker / Planas Lineage
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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    I can't be the only one that thinks to apply this technique as written is well...silly, can I?
    No.

    Planas has a slightly different take that I like much better than the written description above. It works much better for me.

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    execkenpo is offline
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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth View Post
    No.

    Planas has a slightly different take that I like much better than the written description above. It works much better for me.
    Would you care to share?

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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    OK, but let me ask this:
    have you ever thought to, or can you imagine any situation in which you would, execute a "low push" in a fight? Anyone? Bueller?
    Not really... unless I was already down. Or I'm drunk and I trip over something, in which case the only necessary defense would be to simply step out of the way...then maybe kick him in the ribs.

    I agree with the idea that it would be a tackle, which is practically inevitable in a street fight. You always see two guys throw a couple wild haymakers, and then one goes for the waist because that's usually the only way they can really fight. ...or they're trying to be their favorite MMA or UFC fighter.

    In that case, I think the arms are already too far apart to worry about separating them. If it's a surprise, you may not be able to redirect his momentum... time to recall some grappling techniques.

    If you expect it...and like I said, it's so common that it's a good idea to anticipate it... my reaction would depend on the distance involved. If he's a few steps away, options are many... I'd side step with a snap kick to the mid-section or groin as he goes by, after which he's probably going down anyway because of his momemtum. If it's just a drunk being stupid in a bar, you can have some fun and toss him around the place for a while til he gives up.

    If he's right in front of me, there may not be time to side step. As he begins going down for the tackle, I'd go for a push-down on top of his head as I raise my knee. It would also require pushing BACK, against his momentum to put his head in position for my knee. Or if there's room behind you, a skip back as you raise your knee. I might end up down from his forward motion and me being on one leg, but he would be at least dazed for a moment if my knee connects properly, giving me time for another strike if necessary.

    The biggest concern in any case would probably be...what's behind me? If I get in a conflict with someone that may become physical, and knowing the likelyhood of a takedown attempt, I like to know what's around me, specifically, what not to fall on should the last example happen.

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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    I look at this technique as a "what if" to PARTING WINGS.... after spreading the hands in Parting Wings, maybe they we're inadvertently directed downward... now you have a choice to graft to this, or even Hooking Wings if you must continue backward.

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    Default Re: Fatal Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    OK, but let me ask this:
    have you ever thought to, or can you imagine any situation in which you would, execute a "low push" in a fight? Anyone? Bueller?
    I saw this once: a man who looked like a fat Kimbo Slice was standing over a youth, the youth attempted to stand up and the Kimbo-clone did a low push shoving him back into the seat, the youth hit the seat so hard the back of it broke. As for the attempted low push I have to agree with what has been stated, it is possible the opponent's arms have been catalyzed into a negative orbit, the opponent is attempting to grab the pants, belt or hips or attempting some form of throw as often seen in sumo the wedgie throw lol.
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