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Thread: William Chow Kata?!?

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    PorterKenpo is offline
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    Default William Chow Kata?!?

    I recently saw a video on John Bishop's kajukembo site of William Chow doing a kata in California in the 1960's (it was also on youtube). I found this interesting in that, the myth is that Chow did not know or do any kata and that his students later added them. Would anyone happen to know what kata or form he is performing in the video?

    Thanks,
    PorterKenpo

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    John Bishop is offline
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    Default Re: William Chow Kata?!?

    It's a kata of William Chow's design. He called it "Top of the Mountain".

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    Default Re: William Chow Kata?!?

    From what I have read and been told that was true in the early days of Chow's teaching but did change slightly later on.

    Here are a couple of articles by one of Chow's students (Ralph Castro) and the use of the forms

    http://www.shaolinkenpo.com/article1.htm
    http://www.shaolinkenpo.com/article2.htm (Notice that one of the highest forms is called 'high mountain' or another name might be 'top of the mountain')
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: William Chow Kata?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PorterKenpo View Post
    ...I found this interesting in that, the myth is that Chow did not know or do any kata and that his students later added them...
    I have a open question for everyone...In the overall scheme of Ken/mpo, does it really matter if Chow did or did not do forms? Why would it really matter when he could knock you out with one punch? Maybe I'm so naive, but why does it matter? If he did forms or didn't do forms, it doesn't change my opinion and respect for William K.S. Chow.

    I suppose I'm lucky because I get to hear stories about Great Grandmaster Chow whenever I go train...

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    Default Re: William Chow Kata?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by youngbraveheart View Post
    I have a open question for everyone...In the overall scheme of Ken/mpo, does it really matter if Chow did or did not do forms? Why would it really matter when he could knock you out with one punch? Maybe I'm so naive, but why does it matter? If he did forms or didn't do forms, it doesn't change my opinion and respect for William K.S. Chow.

    I suppose I'm lucky because I get to hear stories about Great Grandmaster Chow whenever I go train...
    I think many people want to know what and how Prof. Chow taught because he was such a HUGE influence on so many styles and people. You have some students that studied with him a short time or in the beginning and they have one view and others who stayed longer or later in his life with another view.

    Does it matter to some? nope. Does it matter if you are trying to dig to the roots of your system and trying to improve it by following in Chow's footsteps. yep. Does it matter for those of us who want to know as much as we can about him and grab at every piece of info we can? yep.

    Where do you train that you are that lucky to hear the stories?
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: William Chow Kata?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by punisher73 View Post
    I think many people want to know what and how Prof. Chow taught because he was such a HUGE influence on so many styles and people. You have some students that studied with him a short time or in the beginning and they have one view and others who stayed longer or later in his life with another view.

    Does it matter to some? nope. Does it matter if you are trying to dig to the roots of your system and trying to improve it by following in Chow's footsteps. yep. Does it matter for those of us who want to know as much as we can about him and grab at every piece of info we can? yep.

    Where do you train that you are that lucky to hear the stories?
    Hey Punisher73, thanks for the reply.

    In essence, I may be taking for granted about Chow because I am a student of Master Bill Chun Jr., who trained under his father (Grandmaster Bill Chun Sr.) and Chow, and get to hear about the stories of both of his teachers. Chun Sr. and Chow developed our style of Go Shin Jitsu Kenpo/Chinese Kempo (Chow/Chun Method).

    I am a fairly naive student because I don't really consider the historical aspects of our Kempo. I guess all I care about is who my teacher is and who his only two teachers were. I don't think about it that much anymore unless talking about it with someone, but I do consider myself very lucky and fortunate to be a student of Bill Chun Jr. and train with really great guys.

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    Default Re: William Chow Kata?!?

    [QUOTE=punisher73;103069]I think many people want to know what and how Prof. Chow taught because he was such a HUGE influence on so many styles and people...Does it matter to some? nope. Does it matter if you are trying to dig to the roots of your system and trying to improve it by following in Chow's footsteps. yep...

    Well said punisher73.
    I don't believe you have to do kata to be a good fighter, I was just trying to get to the truth of how and what he trained. There are a lot of myths and half truths out there. Also, thank you for the Castro links.

    PorterKenpo

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    Default Re: William Chow Kata?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by PorterKenpo View Post
    ...I don't believe you have to do kata to be a good fighter, I was just trying to get to the truth of how and what he trained. There are a lot of myths and half truths out there...
    I think there are only a few people alive who trained under Chow. If I was interested I'd contact them to find out about how he trained or did or what he didn't do in his martial arts training, especially since there are "a lot of myths and half truths out there." Only two come to mind when thinking about students of William K.S. Chow that are alive. There may be more, but this naive student doesn't really care about who the other students of Chow were/are. Personally, I'd rather not pound steel or rocks like he did...

    If I was interested, I'd research what happened after Chow met William Q.C. Chun Sr.

    Good luck in your search.

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    Default Re: William Chow Kata?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by youngbraveheart View Post
    ...If I was interested, I'd research what happened after Chow met William Q.C. Chun Sr...
    Let me clarify myself...if I was at all interested, I'd research what happened after William Q.C. Chun Sr. became a student of William K.S. Chow...

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