Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

  1. #1
    KenpoCoach's Avatar
    KenpoCoach is offline Parker-Planas-Doyle Kenpo
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mount Vernon, Ohio
    Posts
    72
    Thanks
    210
    Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    The spring Ohio Tour of Mr. Richard Planas will take place March 27-29 2009. The location will be at Mr. Joe Doyle's American Kenpo Karate Academy; 7272 Jackson Street Mentor, Ohio 44060. The Cost is $120.00 for roughly 4.5 hours of on the mat instruction.

    Mr. Doyle can be reached for registration at 440-255-6697.

    Space is limited.

    Alternatively you can contact Mr. Doyle via email at: Admin@akakenpo.com or go to his website: http://www.akakenpo.com for additional information.

    The class starts at 10 am and runs until noon where we break for lunch (feel free to bag a lunch, Mr. Doyle will provide free bottled water). We then return to the mat around 1 and continue until Mr. Planas wishes to stop. Usually around 4:30. Sometimes, some of the attendees go out for dinner with Mr. Planas afterward. Mr. Doyle usually places a sign-up sheet out for those who wish to attend the dinner.

    This is a regularly scheduled training event for professional American Kenpo school owners and/or Instructors which is presented 4 times a year by Mr. Planas at Mr. Doyle's location.

    Remember; if you attend you will have a properly trained Kenpoist to train with. Something that can not be said of every training seminar available to you. If you do not want to hook up with a stranger then please feel free to bring your training partner or members of your school to the event. Most attendees are of the higher ranks although many lower rank students are both on the floor and are welcome to attend as well.

    This is the Master, this is the place and this is the time where people who wish to become Master Kenpoist in their own right are being trained to do so. There is enough time and willingness on the part of Grand Master Planas to answer your questions and to help train you in the way you need to be trained. There simply is no higher ranking Kenpoist then Mr. Richard Planas to learn correct Parker Kenpo from.

    All respectable Kenpoist simply must attend these seminars. These Ohio Instructor College seminars presented by Grand Master Planas are premier training opportunities. It does not matter what affiliations you may be associated with, at this College we are all just Kenpo brothers and sisters learning how to be at our best.

    Below is a copy of the email Mr. Doyle sent out to his regular readership:

    Dear Fellow Kenpoists,

    This College is for anyone wanting to align themselves within the Parker/Planas lineage and to be educated in American Karate as it was once taught by Mr. Parker. Mr. Planas teaches the techniques and forms with sound explanations, history, and relationships of all the material. You will not only train your body but you will also educate your mind so you understand what you are doing.

    Anything short of this type of American Kenpo training is just speculation of how things should be done.

    Respectfully,

    Mr. Doyle

    Grand Master Planas wants you to come to this event. Professor Joe Doyle (6th) wants you to come to this event. And of course, I want you to come to all of these events because it is simply the right thing to do. Please plan to come and if you can not attend, please let your students and friends know about what is available to them and encourage them to attend.

    Thank you.

    Sincerely,

    KenpoCoach

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sarnia, ON, Canada
    Posts
    7,774
    Thanks
    301
    Thanked 1,263 Times in 801 Posts

    Default Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    KenpoCoach

    I respect Richard Planas to the utmost degree, but you need to really tone down the rhetorec. Mr. Doyles email was enough to get the message accross, the added pressure/hype can actually hurt these events. You may want to get mr. Doyle to approve all messages for events from now on.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  3. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Rob Broad For This Useful Post:

    Dr. Dave in da house (01-16-2009),KenpoCoach (01-22-2009),LuckyKBoxer (01-16-2009)

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,341
    Thanks
    2,290
    Thanked 4,367 Times in 1,425 Posts

    Default Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    It is possible to tell a woman that her current outfit is attractive, without telling her that everything else she wears looks like crap. A skill in communication you might wish to explore and develop.

    That, or I'm thinking you just like provoking responses out of people with ridiculous behavior.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Dr. Dave in da house For This Useful Post:

    KenpoCoach (01-22-2009)

  6. #4
    Carol's Avatar
    Carol is offline Deo duce, ferro comitante
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nashua, NH
    Posts
    2,007
    Thanks
    1,141
    Thanked 976 Times in 569 Posts

    Default Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    He may repeating what is said at the school, to a degree.

    There are schools out there that teach serious Kenpo from the source, with equally serious rhetoric. The sales pitch is built directly in to the content delivery.

    Doesn't detract from the quality of the Kenpo taught. And...of all the things that can come between a student and good training, rhetoric can certainly be overcome.

    But, it can get draining...for some people, more than others.

  7. #5
    kenpochrstn is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Purple Belt
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    wickliffe,oh.
    Posts
    293
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts

    Talking Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    RE: RHETORIC BEING FROM THE SCHOOL TO THE STUDENT

    I highly doubt that Mr.Doyle is hyping his student up at the studio, and then he in turn does so here.

    Unless he(Mr.Doyle)has changed dramatically this is not the case. I became acquainted(sp?)with Mr.Joe Doyle back in approximately 86, and although on occasion we have not seen eye to eye. He has never played the role of the "loud mouth" in any respect. I think maybe kenpocoach is just a bit over zealous. Anyway I just wanted to throw a little word in for Mr.Doyle.

    PEACE
    1stJohn1:9

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kenpochrstn For This Useful Post:

    KenpoCoach (01-22-2009),mooch (01-23-2009)

  9. #6
    Kenpodoc's Avatar
    Kenpodoc is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Purple Belt
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Mount Vernon, OH
    Posts
    243
    Thanks
    405
    Thanked 93 Times in 49 Posts

    Default Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    Joe Doyle is a good man and in my experience understated. Larry's enthusiasm is good but I think his hyperbole on this site is doing Joe a disservice. Mr. Planas' seminars are always great and his seminars in Mentor have been uniformly superb. Anyone who can attend should.

    Jeff

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kenpodoc For This Useful Post:

    KenpoCoach (01-22-2009),mooch (01-23-2009)

  11. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,341
    Thanks
    2,290
    Thanked 4,367 Times in 1,425 Posts

    Default Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpodoc View Post
    Joe Doyle is a good man and in my experience understated. Larry's enthusiasm is good but I think his hyperbole on this site is doing Joe a disservice. Mr. Planas' seminars are always great and his seminars in Mentor have been uniformly superb. Anyone who can attend should.

    Jeff
    I have heard nothing but good things about Mr. Doyle, and am pleased his camps are going well. I hope KenpoCoach's paintings don't prevent him from contributing all he can to kenpo.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Dr. Dave in da house For This Useful Post:

    KenpoCoach (01-22-2009)

  13. #8
    Purekenpo is offline
    KenpoTalk
    White Belt
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Mt. Vernon, oh
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts

    Default Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    Judging from someone who has been to Mr. D's to train it is a good time and good fellowship with other like - minded Kenpoist. Please don't misread K/coaches enthusiasm, he just wants everyone to get together with EPAK. My blog talks about training with Mr. D as well. kenpoinstrutor.blogspot.com (just a little plug)

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Purekenpo For This Useful Post:

    KenpoCoach (01-22-2009),mooch (01-23-2009)

  15. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sarnia, ON, Canada
    Posts
    7,774
    Thanks
    301
    Thanked 1,263 Times in 801 Posts

    Default Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    There is a right way and a wrong way to promote these events, this thread was the wrong way.

    There are many great seniors out there and all have a lot to show, and that is the way it is meant to be. Huk is definitely the teacher's teacher. Nobody was better in the ring than Frank Trejo, and when it comes to sparring you would be hard pressed to find anyone in our realm that could show you more, Doc does what many consider to be Ed Parker's personal system, Dennis Conatser was one of the last guys to work consistantly with Ed Parker until just before his death, all of these men and several more have much to offer the American Kenpo Kenpo Community, they all have very definite strengths. To say that anyone of them has the last word on kenpo is a great mis-statement because they were all part of Ed Parker's Kenpo at different times during its evolution.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Rob Broad For This Useful Post:

    J Ellis (01-22-2009)

  17. #10
    KenpoCoach's Avatar
    KenpoCoach is offline Parker-Planas-Doyle Kenpo
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mount Vernon, Ohio
    Posts
    72
    Thanks
    210
    Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    Hello everyone,

    I feel poked and prodded from every angle by many people at KenpoTalk. What I would like to point out is that I never bad-mouthed or put down any other Kenpo Instructor. I do not even attack writers who disagree with my point of view. I never disrespect my former teacher or other students at my previous training facility and I never will.

    The reactions I receive from many of the other members of KenpoTalk via their post are actually slanting my viewpoints, tainting my intent to the many viewers who read these post. One would think that I have in someway degraded Mr. Conaster or Mr. Trejo or any of the other great Kenpo Masters. Which is simply not the case. I never even use their names in my post. It is not me that makes these post look like I am attacking others. It is in fact many of your post that are making it seem as if I am. To see what I mean, please go back and reread some of my works, you will see that my works when considered by themselves, without the followup comments of others do not attack anyone. I am simply stating my opinions. Further recognize that my writing style may be offensive to some readers, primarily because I speak so strongly about the "you-know-whos in my life" and do not leave room on the pages for the abilities of other Instructors in the Kenpo World. But that is my choice.

    One of the writers at KenpoTalk started a very interesting thread the other day. I am intending to respond to it soon. She asked basically why Kenpo seems so "Fragmented". Of course that may only be my understanding of her intent, but I would say we are "Fragmented" because some people are so global in their thinking that they do not appreciate someone who is single minded in purpose. My post are single minded in purpose. I am not writing about general Kenpo issues as of yet. When I do write about the general issues facing our society then I would welcome any opinions as that is healthy to the discussion. To date, I have written about events that I am personally involved with. My opinions are based upon my experiences and they are presented with my customary single mindedness.

    As for Professor Doyle, he and I talk all the time. Mr. Doyle only concern about my writing to date is that I might sound exclusionary. He does not want someone to not come to the events because they think they are not welcomed. Kenpo is Kenpo, you do not need to be an adherent of Master Planas to come to his school and learn proper Kenpo. He has said that my writings may come across as saying if your not with Planas your not one of us. Which is not my intent, but I can see how some of the follow up post might make it seem that way. I believe my words as posted are all inclusive. I wish all who read my works to think to themselves; Either this guy is a nut or maybe, just maybe he is on to something. Perhaps I better check it out for myself...

    That's all I want to say for now. I am not against anyone or any other Kenpo organization but I am definitely for what it is I do. Kenpoist who take the time to involve themselves with Mr. Doyle and Master Planas, who actually come to our events, may one day write for KenpoTalk as single minded as I do. As Professor Doyle has said; You don't know what you don't know.

    Thank you.

    KenpoCoach
    "Rank is no good unless itís respected." Quoted from Mr. Richard Planas.

    If your traveling through the Central Ohio (Mount Vernon) area and would like to meet with KenpoCoach either for some lively one on one discussions or for some "On the mat" Kenpo training please send an email to: Lcsplain@embarqmail.com and I'll see if I can make that happen.

  18. #11
    Drew is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    711
    Thanks
    556
    Thanked 587 Times in 326 Posts

    Default Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoCoach View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I feel poked and prodded from every angle by many people at KenpoTalk. What I would like to point out is that I never bad-mouthed or put down any other Kenpo Instructor. I do not even attack writers who disagree with my point of view. I never disrespect my former teacher or other students at my previous training facility and I never will.
    ***
    One of the writers at KenpoTalk started a very interesting thread the other day. I am intending to respond to it soon. She asked basically why Kenpo seems so "Fragmented". Of course that may only be my understanding of her intent, but I would say we are "Fragmented" because some people are so global in their thinking that they do not appreciate someone who is single minded in purpose. My post are single minded in purpose. I am not writing about general Kenpo issues as of yet. When I do write about the general issues facing our society then I would welcome any opinions as that is healthy to the discussion. To date, I have written about events that I am personally involved with. My opinions are based upon my experiences and they are presented with my customary single mindedness.
    It's fine by me if you have an opinion and state it. That being said if you are going to be single-minded and take-no-prisoners, then you have to be willing to take the heat that comes with being that way. So, while I didn't take what you said as bad-mouthing, it doesn't mean I have accept your opinion or to leave your opinion uncontested, if I disagree. Dr. Dave, Rob, and me (among others) from time to time express things that we take heat for and have to back up. I don't think anymore is expected from you.

    As I recall, the thing I took issue with was the claim that Mr. Planas was teaching 'what Mr. Parker wanted.' I don't think there was 'one' thing Mr. Parker wanted. Moreover, I think the people best in the position to make such claims were those who were actively studying with him until the end. This includes Doc, Rich Hale, and Dennis Conaster to name a few. I think Doc is teaching what Mr. Parker wanted. While I firmly believe that, it doesn't preclude the possibility that others are teaching what they understood Mr. Parker wanted.

    Also, I think it is generally understood that you believe your teacher or your teacher's teacher is da bomb. Why else would you choose to be associated with them? Personally, I think you were laying it on a little thick.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing;
    drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    and drinking largely sobers us again. --Alexander Pope

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Drew For This Useful Post:

    KenpoCoach (01-22-2009)

  20. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,341
    Thanks
    2,290
    Thanked 4,367 Times in 1,425 Posts

    Default Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    It's fine by me if you have an opinion and state it. That being said if you are going to be single-minded and take-no-prisoners, then you have to be willing to take the heat that comes with being that way. So, while I didn't take what you said as bad-mouthing, it doesn't mean I have accept your opinion or to leave your opinion uncontested, if I disagree. Dr. Dave, Rob, and me (among others) from time to time express things that we take heat for and have to back up. I don't think anymore is expected from you.

    As I recall, the thing I took issue with was the claim that Mr. Planas was teaching 'what Mr. Parker wanted.' I don't think there was 'one' thing Mr. Parker wanted. Moreover, I think the people best in the position to make such claims were those who were actively studying with him until the end. This includes Doc, Rich Hale, and Dennis Conaster to name a few. I think Doc is teaching what Mr. Parker wanted. While I firmly believe that, it doesn't preclude the possibility that others are teaching what they understood Mr. Parker wanted.

    Also, I think it is generally understood that you believe your teacher or your teacher's teacher is da bomb. Why else would you choose to be associated with them? Personally, I think you were laying it on a little thick.
    Ayup. Communication is never what is just spoken; it includes what is inferred or alluded to. Sometimes, the unspoken second half of the sentence is heard more loudly than the spoken half. If someone says, "It may not be my place to say you're a frikkin' idiot, but..." and they leave it at that, what should the audience infer the speaker is actually saying? Passive-aggressive folks would use that for a "poor me" out..."What are you mad at me for...I never actually CALLED him a frikkin idiot."

    It comes across as manipulative, passive-aggressive, and other asundry crunchity goodness. You really can't expect to make comments of that manner on a public forum, and not get your suspenders pulled for it.

    KenpoCoach:
    The phrase, "My religion is the only true one, and everybody else is going to hell" spoken from a podium erected in a public square, is effectively the same thing as approaching each person in the square individually, staring them in the eye, and poking them in the chest with your finger while saying, "You are going to hell". Do it enough times to enough people, and eventually someones going to respind to the obnoxious nature of the message by taking a poke at you.

    The global statements you, KenpoCoach, have a propensity to use are the same thing. They are indirect criticisms, accusations, insults, and are done from behind the veneer of deniable inference/innuendo. To insist that you're the innocent victim of our/my relentless and unjust persecution just looks like more manipulative passive-aggression; it is an active denial of the role you specifically played in creating the situation. If you do not like the situation, use different words. Select for phrases that are not inflammatory, indirect insults to everybody who is not on your same page.

    I think Huk is an important member of our kenpo senior college; one of several. I do not think he is the sole and infallible kenpo messiah. Your writing is still exclusionary, but not in the way you seem to have identified. Rather, "come and learn proper kenpo fom the only real qualified source" requires would-be prospects to be in agreement with that statement prior to signing up; participation equals collusion. Many will avoid the event, based on the way you couch it. If you are truly interested in exposing more of the kenpo world to Huks offerings, your communication would be more effective if you listed the benefits of his approach, how it has positively influenced your kenpo growth and the growth of others in your crew, and what, specifically, unannointed participants can expect to gain from participation in the experience.

    These forums fit an Action model of communication, rather than Transactional. Messaging is one way...writer to remote reader...rather than moving at the speed of gesture and expression, phrases modified on the fly based on percievable feedback to message, etc. This makes it even more important to pay attention to the old adage, "The meaning of your communication is the response you get." If you aren't getting the response you aimed for, the onus is on you to modify the comunication until you do.

    You aren't a victim of anything. You are a participant in a transaction that isn't going as well as you would like, as a direct effect of your word selection. Don't like it? Change it. Tell me why I should go to the next one in words that don't glorify Huk, don't diminish the value of other kenpo elders, but which do relate specifics of growth I can look forward to experiencing by showing up. It really is your choice. Your messages to the world about these events can create arguments, or they can create improved results. It's up to you.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to Dr. Dave in da house For This Useful Post:

    KenpoCoach (01-22-2009)

  22. #13
    jfarnsworth's Avatar
    jfarnsworth is offline Parker / Planas Lineage
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Mansfield, Ohio
    Posts
    1,576
    Thanks
    168
    Thanked 386 Times in 260 Posts

    Default

    At this moment I do not care what was said above this post!!!!




    On another note.
    This was yet again, one of the best seminar's I've been to of Mr. Planas'. I loved having been able to go through 2 man set to get all the nuances right. That's something I've been looking forward to for a long time. The few blue belt techniques we did I got the lights on for one. Sometimes it just takes a slightly different approach to get the full understanding. This happened to me yesterday on one of them.

    It was nice to be among friends, to meet new ones, & visit with old ones. I would like to also thank one of my students, Jim, for going to see Mr. Planas for the first time. I'm sure it was a great experience for you.
    You are not here to win friends. You are not here to look pretty. You are not here to stare at some chick's @ss. You know why you're here. And if you don't, then get the **** out because you're just taking up space......So SHUT up and TRAIN - Flex Mag.


    `If you wish to get ahold of me please contact me at jhfarnsworth@yahoo.com.

  23. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jfarnsworth For This Useful Post:

    gixxershane (03-29-2009),KenpoCoach (03-31-2009)

  24. #14
    gixxershane's Avatar
    gixxershane is offline
    KenpoTalk
    2nd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Providence Plantation
    Posts
    777
    Thanks
    261
    Thanked 180 Times in 147 Posts

    Default Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth View Post
    At this moment I do not care what was said above this post!!!!




    On another note.
    This was yet again, one of the best seminar's I've been to of Mr. Planas'. I loved having been able to go through 2 man set to get all the nuances right. That's something I've been looking forward to for a long time. The few blue belt techniques we did I got the lights on for one. Sometimes it just takes a slightly different approach to get the full understanding. This happened to me yesterday on one of them.

    It was nice to be among friends, to meet new ones, & visit with old ones. I would like to also thank one of my students, Jim, for going to see Mr. Planas for the first time. I'm sure it was a great experience for you.

    Glad you had an enjoyable experience at this event... I wish I could have attended
    Quote Originally Posted by jfarnsworth
    I loved having been able to go through 2 man set to get all the nuances right. That's something I've been looking forward to for a long time. The few blue belt techniques we did I got the lights on for one.
    could you elaborate on this for those who could not attend? please??
    "The sacraed rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself, and can never be erased.""

    Alexander Hamilton
    The Farmer Refuted (1775)

  25. #15
    KenpoCoach's Avatar
    KenpoCoach is offline Parker-Planas-Doyle Kenpo
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mount Vernon, Ohio
    Posts
    72
    Thanks
    210
    Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts

    Thumbs up Re: Mr. Richard Planas seminar in Mentor Ohio March 27-29 2009

    Later today, possibly tomorrow I plan to post a review of this Planas event.

    Mr. Farnsworth, your words mean a great deal to me. Thank you.

    KenpoCoach
    "Rank is no good unless itís respected." Quoted from Mr. Richard Planas.

    If your traveling through the Central Ohio (Mount Vernon) area and would like to meet with KenpoCoach either for some lively one on one discussions or for some "On the mat" Kenpo training please send an email to: Lcsplain@embarqmail.com and I'll see if I can make that happen.

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Richard "Huk" Planas Seminar n Towson, MD.
    By KenpoJuJitsu3 in forum Kenpo General
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-04-2008, 05:18 PM
  2. Richard "Huk" Planas Seminar in Towson, MD
    By KenpoJuJitsu3 in forum Events
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-14-2007, 07:15 PM
  3. Richard "Huk" Planas San Antonio, Texas seminar
    By JEDISHADOW in forum Events
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-25-2006, 10:45 PM
  4. About Richard "Huk" Planas
    By Bob Hubbard in forum Parkers Kenpo (EPAK) - General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-13-2005, 11:22 PM