Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 136

Thread: When do you become a Master?

  1. #1
    nelson is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Yellow Belt
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    81
    Thanks
    4,700
    Thanked 2,055 Times in 1,335 Posts

    Default When do you become a Master?

    Dear Kenpo brothers and sisters:

    Do you become a master when you each 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th dan?
    Or does the term only apply to the so called "honorary dans" of 5th through 10th Dan?

    Does one know in his heart that one has become a master or must one be blessed by the kenpo elite and voted into the club?

    How many self proclaimed masters are there in the arts today?

    How many kenpo "masters" are deserving of their titles and have reached their standing through politics alone?

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to nelson For This Useful Post:

    Devildogmrk (10-13-2007)

  3. #2
    SifuDangeRuss is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Green Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Soggy Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    602
    Thanks
    28
    Thanked 152 Times in 78 Posts

    Question Re: When do you become a Master?

    Nelson...
    The best rule of thumb is....if ya hafta ask? You aren't.
    As to the number of self-proclaimed or self annoited masters today...I will respond with a quote from a very close friend of mine, after having moved back down to SoCal a couple of years ago. His words:

    "Down here, there are more Grand Masters, than Masters, more Masters than black belts...and the only real shodan level blackbelts to be found are chimpanzees..."

    I'll refrain from mentioning the author of those words, but will admit to smiling everytime I hear them.
    NEW and IMPROVED Non-Chunky Version!

    [SIGPIC]http://www.angelfire.com/wa/dangerusskenpo[/SIGPIC]

    I only know enough, to understand how much I don't know

    http://www.angelfire.com/wa/dangerusskenpo

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post

    "Down here, there are more Grand Masters, than Masters, more Masters than black belts...and the only real shodan level blackbelts to be found are chimpanzees..."
    Well, I personally do enjoy a good banana.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  5. #4
    ronin6's Avatar
    ronin6 is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Oxford, Massachusetts, United States
    Posts
    723
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 46 Times in 44 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    Nelson...
    The best rule of thumb is....if ya hafta ask? You aren't.
    I have to agree with that statement.

    Here's my two cents...

    I think that being a "Master" is something many people would shun away from. In our training we are all in the never ending pursuit of knowledge. Some may infer that being a "Master" means you know all. To proclaim oneself a "Master" would mean that you know all about your training or art. However, many students would argue that you learn something new every time you run a technique, form, etc. I am someone who believes that latter.
    I always felt that when I was teaching Aikido I never accepted the title of Sensei. I understand the respect aspect of that, however I felt that the best relationship with students is that of Sempai (senior student) & Kohai (junior student). I felt that I always learned more and more about techniques from other students. They taught me everything from what I may be doing incorrectly to variations that I did not see. In reality my students became by teachers. The point of that story is that, I believe that no matter rank or title you learn from everyone you interact with. Titles are just that, titles. Being a "Master" does not make you a good teacher or student. Without good teachers or students the arts may die out and never evolve or survive time.
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

  6. #5
    ronin6's Avatar
    ronin6 is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Oxford, Massachusetts, United States
    Posts
    723
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 46 Times in 44 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    Well, I personally do enjoy a good banana.

    --Amy
    Love them bananas...

    PS: Great job our your website.
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sarnia, ON, Canada
    Posts
    7,774
    Thanks
    301
    Thanked 1,263 Times in 801 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    You know you are a master when the other masters you resepect make a place for you at their table.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rob Broad For This Useful Post:

    IWishToLearn (08-21-2009),MARSHALLS KENPO (06-25-2007)

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    London, ON
    Posts
    1,601
    Thanks
    64
    Thanked 209 Times in 134 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    You know you are a master when the other masters you resepect make a place for you at their table.
    Darn Rob. You beat me to the punch.


    I agree wholeheartedly. If you have bestowed upon yourself the title, "Master" (regardless of how high of rank you hold), you are NOT ONE.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
    (Phillipians 4:13)


  10. #8
    Richard Finn's Avatar
    Richard Finn is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Blue Belt
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    401
    Thanks
    234
    Thanked 149 Times in 103 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    You know you are a master when the other masters you resepect make a place for you at their table.

    Rob really makes a great point. So does Ronin. I think it is a lot like humility. If you think you have arrived, you probably have not. It is better to take the lowest seat and be invited up. A long career in my field leaves me with many more questions than anwers. I am sure that many others can echo that thought.
    Hands on Healer

    "If you can not be King be a healer."

    "The hands of the King are the hands of a healer"

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,361
    Thanks
    841
    Thanked 480 Times in 291 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by nelson View Post
    Dear Kenpo brothers and sisters:

    Do you become a master when you each 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th dan?
    Or does the term only apply to the so called "honorary dans" of 5th through 10th Dan?

    Does one know in his heart that one has become a master or must one be blessed by the kenpo elite and voted into the club?

    How many self proclaimed masters are there in the arts today?

    How many kenpo "masters" are deserving of their titles and have reached their standing through politics alone?
    They say a true Master reveals it in his every action.

    As far as what rank is identified as the title of Master ... in Kenpo its 8th degree, in most TMA systems its 5th or 6th. Some Korean systems changed it about 10 years ago to 4th.

    However most who are called Master never call themselves that, others do.

    Personally I think Professor sounds better

    Train hard!
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Martin Seck For This Useful Post:

    IWishToLearn (08-21-2009)

  13. #10
    ronin6's Avatar
    ronin6 is offline
    KenpoTalk
    3rd. Brown Belt
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Oxford, Massachusetts, United States
    Posts
    723
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 46 Times in 44 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by florida_kenpo View Post

    Personally I think Professor sounds better
    I agree. I think that sounds better.
    "Fear is the true opiate of combat."

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dana Point, CA
    Posts
    2,343
    Thanks
    2,296
    Thanked 4,374 Times in 1,427 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    Nelson...
    The best rule of thumb is....if ya hafta ask? You aren't.
    As to the number of self-proclaimed or self annoited masters today...I will respond with a quote from a very close friend of mine, after having moved back down to SoCal a couple of years ago. His words:

    "Down here, there are more Grand Masters, than Masters, more Masters than black belts...and the only real shodan level blackbelts to be found are chimpanzees..."

    I'll refrain from mentioning the author of those words, but will admit to smiling everytime I hear them.
    On a side note...I see your emblem has the Sam Pai dragon incorporated into it. Any affiliation? With whom?

    D.
    Clear mind, clear movement. Mastery of the Arts is mastery over the Self. That in this moment, this motion, the thoughts, memories, impulses and passions that cloud the mind must yield to the clarity of purpose, and purity of motion.

  15. #12
    SifuDangeRuss is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Green Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Soggy Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    602
    Thanks
    28
    Thanked 152 Times in 78 Posts

    Cool Re: When do you become a Master?

    One of my favorite, if over-used quotes...."Donning a blackbelt doesn't make you a teacher, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car".....this would apply just as aptly to flying the higher ranks.
    NEW and IMPROVED Non-Chunky Version!

    [SIGPIC]http://www.angelfire.com/wa/dangerusskenpo[/SIGPIC]

    I only know enough, to understand how much I don't know

    http://www.angelfire.com/wa/dangerusskenpo

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to SifuDangeRuss For This Useful Post:

    IWishToLearn (08-21-2009)

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,361
    Thanks
    841
    Thanked 480 Times in 291 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    One of my favorite, if over-used quotes...."Donning a blackbelt doesn't make you a teacher, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car".....this would apply just as aptly to flying the higher ranks.
    I like that one.
    PARKER - HERMAN - SECK

  18. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    San Diego area
    Posts
    1,024
    Thanks
    876
    Thanked 501 Times in 283 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    nelson- Who cares?

    Sorry but that is my first thought...

    There are soo many self proclaimed masters, grandmasters, sigung's etc. that the titles mean relatively little in my eyes.

    A Master would never refer to him or herself as such-
    A Master would never ask to be referred to as such-
    Yet a Master DOES reveal it in his/her every action! In the system I study, it is obvious who the Master's are so we we need not refer to them as such. We have one Grandmaster, and we have had one Professor with whom I believe the title has been retired. (If you know what I mean)

    Cheers!
    The above is just my opinion.

  19. #15
    nelson is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Yellow Belt
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    81
    Thanks
    4,700
    Thanked 2,055 Times in 1,335 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Dear Kenpo brothers and sisters:

    When I poised this question it was for a reason. I truly wanted to know what the feeling was in this forum as to what made one a master of the arts.

    I don't believe that one becomes "annionted" not do I feel that being left an open space at the table means a whole heck of a lot. Their are as many "masters" of the arts as there are ticks on a farm raised hound dog.
    Very few, in my opinion, are truly masters of anything other than the art of politics and self promotion. This last "art" in my opinion ranks with the world's oldest profession in worthiness.

    A master of Kenpo or any other style does not need accolades from anyone to justify his or her expertise. You either have reached a high level of competency or you have not. Regardless of one's competency a master of the arts must still be a perpetual student and retain a measure of humility that is seldom seen in the arts today.

    What in your opinions constitutes the attributes of mastership?

  20. #16
    ltrossbach's Avatar
    ltrossbach is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. White Belt
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    25
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    You know you are a master when the other masters you resepect make a place for you at their table.
    I have to jump on the boat here and say that is a great quote.

    I heard the following from another person in a forum, I don't know if it is true but I like it anyway.

    Apparently this happened to the person in the forums' instructor whom Ill simply call Bill. I dont know all the details , but here is the gist of it.

    "One day Bill was promoted to the level (whichever it was for that style) of master by his Instructor whom he respected as a master.

    Bill: " but... I don't wan't to be a master"

    Bill's Instructor: " tough."

    "

    Well you get the gist of it. I think there is truth in there even on the chance it never happened.
    Lee
    MLKKA

    "Getting your first Black Belt is like graduating from kindergarten... you have only just earned the right to learn." ~Me

  21. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    4,018
    Thanks
    1,163
    Thanked 913 Times in 561 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by SifuDangeRuss View Post
    One of my favorite, if over-used quotes...."Donning a blackbelt doesn't make you a teacher, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car".....this would apply just as aptly to flying the higher ranks.

    That made me laugh out loud.

    I'm not sure where 'master' comes in in kenpo, but I never liked the title. I had an instructor who called himself that, but I think that, or Professor for that matter, is too much. Sensei, Sifu, Mr. Ms., etc. -- those are appropriate. The rest is pomp and circumstance. If you can't infuse the appropriate amounts of respect calling someone by even their first name, then you're not going to respect them anymore by calling them 'master'.

    --Amy
    The New Kenpo Continuum Book is now accepting submissions for volume 2. Our fabulous, ever-changing website is Sacramento Kenpo Karate.
    I'm a member of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary. I'm also a Sacramento Wedding Minister and Disc Jockey
    New Cool (free) kenpo tool bar: http://KenpoKarate.OurToolbar.com/


  22. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    2,795
    Thanks
    1,625
    Thanked 3,146 Times in 1,488 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    What if the masters who leave a place for you at their table are all phonies?

    Who was it who stated something like "I wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member"?

    I personally don't believe in masters. There are instructors, teachers, sifus, senseis, those who are good, better, and really ass-kickin' awsome, but I think masterhood, whether formally expressed in a title or not, is an illusion.
    Michael


    de gustibus non disputante est.
    Negative Douche Bag Number One

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to flying crane For This Useful Post:

    IWishToLearn (08-21-2009)

  24. #19
    SifuDangeRuss is offline
    KenpoTalk
    Adv. Green Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Soggy Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    602
    Thanks
    28
    Thanked 152 Times in 78 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by amylong View Post
    That made me laugh out loud.

    I'm not sure where 'master' comes in in kenpo, but I never liked the title. I had an instructor who called himself that, but I think that, or Professor for that matter, is too much. Sensei, Sifu, Mr. Ms., etc. -- those are appropriate. The rest is pomp and circumstance. If you can't infuse the appropriate amounts of respect calling someone by even their first name, then you're not going to respect them anymore by calling them 'master'.

    --Amy
    I was recently awarded the prestigous rank of 'Master Batour', a rare french title, but that's another story entirely.

    Alright...I'm gonna slink back to my Penalty Box for that one, if anyone needs me, that's where I'll be.
    NEW and IMPROVED Non-Chunky Version!

    [SIGPIC]http://www.angelfire.com/wa/dangerusskenpo[/SIGPIC]

    I only know enough, to understand how much I don't know

    http://www.angelfire.com/wa/dangerusskenpo

  25. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    6,026
    Thanks
    1,199
    Thanked 1,520 Times in 909 Posts

    Default Re: When do you become a Master?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    You know you are a master when the other masters you resepect make a place for you at their table.
    ...yeah...but who made them masters????

    I think a more appropriate question would be "What DEFINES a Master in the world of martial arts?"
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Mitose's US Lineage
    By Kenpodave in forum Tracy Kenpo - General
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 05-16-2007, 07:00 PM
  2. School Fees
    By jmugg in forum Kenpo General
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 01-25-2006, 07:33 AM
  3. Professor Nick Cerio - taken from NickCeriosKenpo.com
    By fistlaw in forum Hawaiian Kempo - General
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-27-2005, 11:00 AM
  4. About Master Larry Tatum
    By Bob Hubbard in forum Parkers Kenpo (EPAK) - General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-14-2005, 08:55 PM