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Thread: Nick Cerio forms

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    faridzadeh is offline
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    Default Nick Cerio forms

    Ten years ago I received my black belt in Nick Cerios Kenpo Karate.
    And due to graduating from college and moving out west, that was the last time I really studied the Martial Arts. I'm now studying Ed Parker's kenpo, but would really try to remember my Nick Cerio's material.

    I happen to have a copy of the Nick Cerio's Kenpo Master's Text, which has most (but not all) of the forms and techniques.

    Form listed in the book are

    Blocking Form 1-5
    Pinan 1-3
    Cat 1-3
    Circle of the Tiger
    Circle of the Leopard
    Statue of the Crane
    Circle of the Panther

    Now I know there are more forms. I'm almost positive there were at least two other Pinans that I learned (up to black belt, beyond that I don't know if there were more), and the same with the Cats. I'm almost positive there were more than those 3.

    The point being I'm trying to locate videos of these forms in order to jog my memory, and hopefully relearn them. The only problem is a lot of video I come across is from the villari system which is different. Their Pinan 3 resembles one of our cat forms (somewhat), so it all looks very familiar, but it's not exactly what I learned. I did come across an old video of Cerio himself, but it a random series of footage, which is great, but not as organized or as complete as I hoped.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Youtube is a great resource for re-familiarization as long as :

    1. The form you are looking for is on there

    2. You already know the form and need a refresher

    A lot of times, you'll get a preview on youtube of a video thats commercially available.

    By far the best method (and often the most difficult) is to try to find an Instructor in your lineage. Perhaps your old instructor is still teaching and you can contact them for information or where to go from here.

    Best of luck!

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    sometimes on ebay you can find old Cerio videos, but I don't think he ever released a lot of that on video.

    Their web site has a list of NCK dojos, but if you don't live in one of the 2 cities where they are still operating you are probably OOL.
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    -Ed Parker Sr.

    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

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    shaolinmonkmark is offline
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    Thumbs up Re: Nick Cerio forms

    2 sources, ready?
    #1 for Combo's and forms and videos:

    www.kempinfo.com

    (please credit Master Matt Barnes, and all who have contributed!Jese Dwire Also! I go there almost daily!)

    and Youtube USSD pinans 1 thru 5, and USSD kata 1 thru 5, and Instructor forms (hansuki,6 kata, nengli north/south, swift tigers, circle of the tiger
    They will be tournaments vids, but 99% performed to NCK.

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    faridzadeh is offline
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Stone_Dragone: I've looked on youtube and found stuff, but a lot seems to be the Villari system which is a little different. NCK Took some of their Pinans and turned them into the Cats. I think they might have even taken some of them apart the put them together into new forms. But youtube is lacking with actual NCK forms.

    Finding an instructor for NCK is becoming harder and harder since his passing. I contacted my old instructor, but haven't back from him in this matter. I'm hoping he video taped himself back when he was running the school. Supposedly he is going back to train with his instructor who was also another NCK certified instructor, so maybe the two of them can put something together.

    DavidCC: When I lived in New England finding a NCK school was easy. Then he passed away and I moved to Los Angeles. Now they are mostly gone, with the exception of two.

    Shaolinmonkmark: Thanks for the link. I actually came across the videos by Master Matt Barnes. He's the one that put me on this quest to find videos of the NCK forms. I went through his 5 Pinan, and crossed reference them with the NCK Masters Text. They are similar, but his Pinan 3 is our Cat 2 (I think. I don't have the book with me), along with a few variations. I have the impression that some of the forms where taken apart and rearranged, and mashed together to create a different form, with very similar moves. So it's close. It's really close, but they are different enough that my quest must continue.

    I will look into the USSD forms on youtube though. Thanks for that suggestion.

    Thanks everyone for your help. I will fill you in with my quest as it progresses.

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Contact Nick Chamberlain in Texas. Houston I believe.

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    faridzadeh is offline
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Oh wow. I actually met that guy a couple of times in MA. He won't remember me though. Does he still teach Nick Cerios? I though he changed styles after Nick Cerio passed away.

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    shaolinmonkmark is offline
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    Thumbs up Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by faridzadeh View Post
    Stone_Dragone: I've looked on youtube and found stuff, but a lot seems to be the Villari system which is a little different. NCK Took some of their Pinans and turned them into the Cats. I think they might have even taken some of them apart the put them together into new forms. But youtube is lacking with actual NCK forms.

    Finding an instructor for NCK is becoming harder and harder since his passing. I contacted my old instructor, but haven't back from him in this matter. I'm hoping he video taped himself back when he was running the school. Supposedly he is going back to train with his instructor who was also another NCK certified instructor, so maybe the two of them can put something together.

    DavidCC: When I lived in New England finding a NCK school was easy. Then he passed away and I moved to Los Angeles. Now they are mostly gone, with the exception of two.

    Shaolinmonkmark: Thanks for the link. I actually came across the videos by Master Matt Barnes. He's the one that put me on this quest to find videos of the NCK forms. I went through his 5 Pinan, and crossed reference them with the NCK Masters Text. They are similar, but his Pinan 3 is our Cat 2 (I think. I don't have the book with me), along with a few variations. I have the impression that some of the forms where taken apart and rearranged, and mashed together to create a different form, with very similar moves. So it's close. It's really close, but they are different enough that my quest must continue.

    I will look into the USSD forms on youtube though. Thanks for that suggestion.

    Thanks everyone for your help. I will fill you in with my quest as it progresses.

    I will say, the USSD forms are done at at least 98% to NCK, some may have been slightly(meaning a strike added,footwork change here and there) but from what i asked my masterlast night he said they were 98% the same.
    Villari's well, that's another story.
    Im not villari's, but you may want to pm marlin wilson.
    He came from villaris from a while ago.

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    Shaolindelt is offline
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by shaolinmonkmark View Post
    I will say, the USSD forms are done at at least 98% to NCK, some may have been slightly(meaning a strike added,footwork change here and there) but from what i asked my masterlast night he said they were 98% the same.
    Villari's well, that's another story.
    Im not villari's, but you may want to pm marlin wilson.
    He came from villaris from a while ago.
    Not to stir up anything, but I think this may be more of the hornet's nest of USSD denying the lineage back to Villari and instead trying to skip his contributions and claim Nick Cerio who is perceived as more legitimate.

    Truth is, the USSD forms that I learned under Mattera:

    1-5 Pinan
    1-6 Kata
    Statue of the Crane
    Honsuki
    Shou Tang Kwok
    Black Belt Forms such as Nenglis North/South, Swift Tigers, Invincible Wall, etc.

    They are the same ones under Villari with no significant differences. Contrast that to the NCK - and there are some that are clearly derived from each other, but names were changed, forms were combined, etc.

    Cerio --> Villari --> Mattera/DeMasco

    Mattera may have went back to Cerio, but he never left the Villari contributions behind (which included everything past the Pinans, Katas and Statue of the Crane, including combinations over 40 at least). I find it interesting that the USSD has tried to separate itself so much from Villari, yet still teach his system. Speaking with some NCK guys now, they have similar forms, but the combinations aren't even used in the system anymore.
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by faridzadeh View Post
    Oh wow. I actually met that guy a couple of times in MA. He won't remember me though. Does he still teach Nick Cerios? I though he changed styles after Nick Cerio passed away.
    He has always taught a variety of stuff. He used what was useful. I am sure he still has the information that you seek.

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    faridzadeh is offline
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    From what I can tell from the videos I've seen about Villari and the NCK text book. Some of the Pinan in the Villari system are the Cat Forms. And one looks like half was taken from one form, and the other taken from another form and merge into one. i don't have the videos or book with me, and I was looking at this at 3 in the morning during a super bad insomnia attack, so I don't have the specific details.

    But if USSD is Villari, then the forms will be very close. But not exactly the forms I am looking for.

    They are great at jogging the memory. But I would much rather jog over the trail I've been through before.

    One night I'll go over the text book with the forms they have and go over the videos I've seen and write down what is similar and what is different.

    Remember the book doesn't have every form, which started this whole quest of mine. And what an interesting quest it is.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolindelt View Post
    Not to stir up anything, but I think this may be more of the hornet's nest of USSD denying the lineage back to Villari and instead trying to skip his contributions and claim Nick Cerio who is perceived as more legitimate.

    Truth is, the USSD forms that I learned under Mattera:

    1-5 Pinan
    1-6 Kata
    Statue of the Crane
    Honsuki
    Shou Tang Kwok
    Black Belt Forms such as Nenglis North/South, Swift Tigers, Invincible Wall, etc.

    They are the same ones under Villari with no significant differences. Contrast that to the NCK - and there are some that are clearly derived from each other, but names were changed, forms were combined, etc.

    Cerio --> Villari --> Mattera/DeMasco

    Mattera may have went back to Cerio, but he never left the Villari contributions behind (which included everything past the Pinans, Katas and Statue of the Crane, including combinations over 40 at least). I find it interesting that the USSD has tried to separate itself so much from Villari, yet still teach his system. Speaking with some NCK guys now, they have similar forms, but the combinations aren't even used in the system anymore.

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    WhiteCrane is offline
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    I'm not familiar with any of the forms mentioned above (The Pinans I do are from Okinawan Kempo and much different), but there are some old videos of them online. This is a video clip of Sho Tung Kwok. Not the best quality, but at least it lets you have an idea of what they look like.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9z11...eature=related

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Attn Mods: This post should be moved as Nick Cerio's Kenpo is NOT Hawaiian.

    Thx
    The above is just my opinion.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Dianhsuhe For This Useful Post:

    Arizona Angel (12-04-2009)

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    I don't know, Sensei Jamey, He claimed these instructors....

    William K.S. Chow - Chinese Kempo/Kara Ho
    William Q.C. Chun, Sr. -
    Go Shin Jitsu Kenpo
    Edmund K. Parker
    -
    American Kenpo
    George Pesare -
    Karazenpo Go Shin Jitsu

    Lots of Hawaii there.
    Last edited by MarkC; 12-03-2009 at 12:07 AM.
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    I have to agree - although I don't put much weight on the Chow-Cerio connection, his training from George Pesare, was Karazenpo - Sonny Gascon's school.

    But I could see how you would want some distance, both to shine the light on the thinness of the Cerio - Chow connection and also to get some space from Villari in the deal hahahahahaha
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    - Doc Chapel

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Well, it all goes back to Chow through all of those claimed as instructors, one way or another.

    I find it both funny and ironic that the USSD guys I've spoken with also want to deny the Villari connection.
    "To be, rather than to seem"

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe View Post
    Attn Mods: This post should be moved as Nick Cerio's Kenpo is NOT Hawaiian.

    Thx
    Looking into that.
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Angel View Post
    Looking into that.
    Cerio first obtained his BB from George Pesare in Karazenpo Goshinjutsu (this does not include Cerio's previous non-kenpo training). Pesare's art was an offshoot of Kajukenbo that he had learned from Victor "Sonny" Gascon, who had learned from John Leoning. Leoning, was one of the first Emperado trained students to bring Kajukenbo to the US.

    Cerio also corresponded with Ed Parker and they trained and exchanged ideas with him that he incorporated into his training. Cerio, to my knowledge never formally trained in all of the EPAK material though.

    Later, Cerio heard of Chow and wanted to train with him. It is unclear whether Cerio trained with Chow first, or trained with Bill Chun Sr. first and then was introduced to Chow. Cerio earned a BB in Chow's system and was later awarded a 5th degree in Chow's system. Cerio's training with Chow consisted of short periods of time over the years. At any rate, Cerio changed his approach to training based on his training with Chow and incorporated alot of those ideas into his own approach.

    Villari studied under Cerio before breaking off on his own and adding other material. Mattera was a student of Villari before breaking off on his own and trying to distance himself from Villari.

    To sum up, Nick Cerio's kenpo comes from a blend of the Hawaiian arts (Kajukenbo, Prof. Chow and Ed Parker), but it was also influenced by his training in Judo, Hakko-Ryu and some other kung fu. So it is not a pure Hawaiian art even though it could trace some of it's roots there.
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    agree.

    Shaolin Kempo Karate people consider it to be Hawaiian Kempo, Sonny Gascon has adopted them all as KGS BBS, Ohana... they are distant cousins by now but related they are.
    -David C
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    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    That makes sense it is Hawaiian but not from Professor Chow. He trained a total of 3 weeks with Professor and his BB/5th dan are in his own Kenpo not Kara-Ho or its predecessors.

    I was absolutely trying to remove Cerio from Professor Chow, USSD uses a picture of Professor Chow, Cerio and Mattera as part of their lineage. It makes me twitch when I see it. LOL

    On with it then--

    We might as well all be in the China/ India forum then...
    The above is just my opinion.

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