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Thread: Nick Cerio forms

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe View Post
    That makes sense it is Hawaiian but not from Professor Chow. He trained a total of 3 weeks with Professor and his BB/5th dan are in his own Kenpo not Kara-Ho or its predecessors.

    I was absolutely trying to remove Cerio from Professor Chow, USSD uses a picture of Professor Chow, Cerio and Mattera as part of their lineage. It makes me twitch when I see it. LOL

    On with it then--

    We might as well all be in the China/ India forum then...

    If this is this big of a bone with you then maybe you shouldn't have left the staff, and kept running this area.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Broad View Post
    If this is this big of a bone with you then maybe you shouldn't have left the staff, and kept running this area.
    My follow-up post recognizes the error in my original post Rob....Geesh

    If it was a big bone I would ask why there is even a Hawaiian section on here since EPAK and almost all others have a cleaner link to Hawaii.

    I did not give up my position as mod. I was relieved BTW..

    I'll be lurking,
    Jamey
    The above is just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Chow is in there, just not as Cerio's teacher.

    He's in there because of the Emperado connection.

    At least, that's my opinion on it.
    -David C
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    "...while you guys are arguing, I'm on the grind."
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    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    And Emperado was...Hawaiian.
    Same deal for Sonny Gascon.
    "To be, rather than to seem"

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Ed Parker was Hawaiian as well.
    The above is just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    So, would it be safe to say you'd only have Kara-Ho, Kajukenbo, and maybe CHA-3 Kenpo included in the Hawaiian Kenpo section?
    "To be, rather than to seem"

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    So, would it be safe to say you'd only have Kara-Ho, Kajukenbo, and maybe CHA-3 Kenpo included in the Hawaiian Kenpo section?
    I would suggest that the "Hawaiian Kenpo" styles would be those that were created and developed IN Hawaii before being "exported" to the mainland. For example, Ed Parker learned Hawaiian Kenpo first, but then came to the mainland and incorporated lots of chinese concepts into his art and admits that he kept only about 10% of what he learned from Chow. At this point, I would say it ceases to be 'Hawaiian' any longer.

    I think that there are some other arts that could be labeled as Hawaiian, like Bill Chun Jr's art Goshin Jitsu Kai that is what his father learned directly from Chow and his style (at that point in time).
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    So, would it be safe to say you'd only have Kara-Ho, Kajukenbo, and maybe CHA-3 Kenpo included in the Hawaiian Kenpo section?
    MarkC- It is not safe for you to say or imply anything on my behalf.

    So Ed Parker's Kenpo is not Hawaiian but Cerio's is?

    Glad you all have cleared that up.
    The above is just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe View Post
    MarkC- It is not safe for you to say or imply anything on my behalf.

    So Ed Parker's Kenpo is not Hawaiian but Cerio's is?

    Glad you all have cleared that up.
    I would suggest that neither one of them are Hawaiian even though they have roots that could be traced back there. Cerio's kenpo was created in the New England area from alot of different sources. Same with Ed Parker's even though he started his training in Hawaii, he came to the mainland and changed what he learned from other sources.
    "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

    Romans 13:4

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    I think Ed Parker made such significant changes n not only thetechnique bt in the organization of his material and how it's taught, that it diverges significantly from the "Hawaiian Kempo" roots where he started. Perhaps what he taught at BYU would be HK but by the time he left Ark Wong it was not any more.

    On the other hand, Cerio's Kempo did not diverge in such significant ways. And in fact they renewed the HK connection when Cerio went to Chow, and even today there is a strong relationship between new england kempo and Chun, and Kimo F. So from Hawaii maybe Nick Cerio's descendants don't look too Hawaiian, but the "bloodlines" are there.

    Of course there is no Law of Nature by which we can say absolutely Yes or No, this is just my opinion, based on my own definitions of terms and understanding of history
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianhsuhe View Post
    MarkC- It is not safe for you to say or imply anything on my behalf.

    So Ed Parker's Kenpo is not Hawaiian but Cerio's is?

    Glad you all have cleared that up.
    That would be why I asked the question.
    Sounds like someone needs to lighten up.
    If you look closely enough, and with enough honesty, whatever someone calls their kenpo or kempo is pretty much a stretch of the imagination. There's quite a bit of jumbling things together, both lineage-wise and technique-wise.

    We have "Hawaiian" styles calling themselves various types of "Chinese" Kempo or Kempo Karate, or whatever( even a few Ed Parker-derived schools), yet they're trying to use Japanese terminology( often incorrectly). Fair enough if it's a Japanese- based kempo system, but what does it really matter in the long run?
    Hawaiian, Chinese, Japanese, Nuwinglandic, it really shouldn't matter so much. Time spent on such things could be better spent on the mat.
    As far as I care, Mr. Cerio's original and major instructors had clear and definite Hawaiian roots, so that's enough for me. Let them call themselves whatever they want.
    "To be, rather than to seem"

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

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  14. #32
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Well, George Pesare had a purple belt in Karazenpo Goshin Jutsu (according to Gascon), a black belt in tae kwon do, and a black belt in judo. This he used to create his New England kenpo system. So how is his kenpo Hawaiian?

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    In guess it depends on how much Purple Belt Karazenpo Goshin Jutsu his system contains, as opposed to how much TKD and Judo.
    Other Kempo systems combine Kempo, TKD-related kicking, Aikido, Jiujutsu, who knows what else? Yet they're still "Hawaiian".
    Again, I don't really have a horse in this race, so it's not a big deal.
    "To be, rather than to seem"

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    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bishop View Post
    Well, George Pesare had a purple belt in Karazenpo Goshin Jutsu (according to Gascon), a black belt in tae kwon do, and a black belt in judo. This he used to create his New England kenpo system. So how is his kenpo Hawaiian?
    because the only kempo component was hawaiian kempo?

    "politically", Sonny Gascon recognized all us doing SKK as his "offspring", so that also gives us the "hawaiian" label I guess.

    what does it take to be "Hawaiian" anyway ???
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    - Doc Chapel

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    For that matter, what does it take to be "Shaolin"?
    "To be, rather than to seem"

    "Fix your rear foot ... What the hell is wrong with you?"

    "...I already watched the videos, and quite frankly, they're bullsh*t."

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    it has to be a little chinesey LOL

    I think we stopped calling what we do "Shaolin Kempo" after we went independant. It wasn't an official announcement or anything, but I can't remember the last time I heard anyone at the school use that word. Except for me, here, now hahaha. Now I've gotta to go look at my last certificate...
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    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

  20. #37
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Let's just call it a good ol' New England Ass Kicking.

    Hey Rob, can we get a section for that?

  21. #38
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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCC View Post
    what does it take to be "Hawaiian" anyway ???
    The system would probably have to be created or developed in Hawaii. When Ed Parker started developing his system of kenpo in Pasadena, Ca., it became American Kenpo.
    If a instructor in Texas was to take techniques from several Japanese systems and combine them into a system of mostly his own creation, would his new system be "Japanese"?

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    maybe
    -David C
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    "...while you guys are arguing, I'm on the grind."
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    "If you don't ask the right questions, I can't give you the answers, and if you don't know the right question to ask, you're not ready for the answers"
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    "For many a 'system' is just a bunch of techniques. It should be much, much more than that..."
    - Doc Chapel

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    Default Re: Nick Cerio forms

    If an instructor in Texas combined several FMA systems in to one, would the resulting system be Filipino? Likely yes.

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