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Thread: The Weapons of Kempo?

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    Default The Weapons of Kempo?

    What weapons are taught within the systems that everyone studies?

    When I was comming up, the Kempo system I learned used Long Pole, Short Pole, and the knife (defense, they didn't teach you how to use one except to train defense, which I thought was kind of pointless. How are you supposed to know the correct way to defend against something you yourself don't know how to use? I always felt it was like trying to teach a defensive driving course without ever having been on the highway). The second Kempo System I fell into used the knife, short stick, long stick, sai, kama, and sword. The Kempo system I just started uses knife, stick (all sizes), spear, halberd, and sword.

    Are pretty much all the Kempo systems the same in this regard or does it differ in some aspect?

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    In Kara-Ho Kempo there are 18 weapons with 3 forms for each, they are mostly Japanese and Chinese in origin- For example we use the Bo, Sai, Nunchaku, Kama, and Tonfa- we use the Balisong (Filipino-Butterfly knife) and weapons like Hooking swords, pickering swords, and the fighting fan also.

    Only Bo, Sai and Nunchaku are learned before Shodan all others are in the higher Dan ranks- (So I do not know much about those )
    The above is just my opinion.

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    in the first kempo system i studied we learned jo, knife, and sword.
    we didnt really touch on the "okinawan" weapons except for fun.
    Last edited by Blackcatbonz; 12-15-2005 at 08:15 PM.

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    Sword and Jo.

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    Bo, jo, kama/knife/short stick (same techniques), nunchaku, chain/rope, sai, tonfa. In addition, there was some double short sword that I was exposed to, but am not terrobly familiar with.

    The philosophy was that the classical weapons were stand ins for various categories of objects that you might find in the environment.

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    We have touched on the staff, long and short, katana, spear, and butterfly swords. I enjoy weapons practice, but I tend to be a bit nitpicky about the "weapons of kempo" as I believe that kempo and various weapons arts tended to exist within larger curriculums. In other words, there are no weapons in kenpo, but rather kenpo and (weapon) are both a part of (Whatever)-ryu.
    Dave

    "I consider that the spiritual life is the life of man's real self, the life of that interior self whose flame is so often allowed to be smothered under the ashes of anxiety and futile concern." - Thomas Merton


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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpodave
    but rather kenpo and (weapon) are both a part of (Whatever)-ryu.
    Actually this was the thinking of most of the classical ryu-ha (organizations) where most martial families contained, hand techniques (jujutsu), weaponry, horsemanship, tactics, and some even contained knowledge of Healing arts (sometimes also the opposits, a study of the body to maximize the effect of the damage done.).

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    Quote Originally Posted by kroh
    Actually this was the thinking of most of the classical ryu-ha (organizations) where most martial families contained, hand techniques (jujutsu), weaponry, horsemanship, tactics, and some even contained knowledge of Healing arts (sometimes also the opposits, a study of the body to maximize the effect of the damage done.).

    Regards,
    Walt
    Yep. That's where I got my theory!
    Dave

    "I consider that the spiritual life is the life of man's real self, the life of that interior self whose flame is so often allowed to be smothered under the ashes of anxiety and futile concern." - Thomas Merton


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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    i tend to think of kempo as a collection of principles. if the school included weapons, the principles of kempo would be directly related to the study of the weapon.
    in the first system i studied, a lot of the open hand stuff was derived from the stuff that was done with the sword.
    the movement related to the octagon is a perfect example.

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    A lot of systems are now turning back to their roots in that they are equating the hand techniques to their equivalents with a weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcatbonz
    i tend to think of kempo as a collection of principles. if the school included weapons, the principles of kempo would be directly related to the study of the weapon.
    This was the thinking in a lot of the systems coming out of Japan during a lot of the warring periods. Why would you spend ridiculous amounts of time teaching a technique for the mastery of everything that you needed to learn when you could teach the overriding principle and just tell people what ever you can do with your empty hands you can do with a weapon. If you can do it standing you can probably do it kneeling or otherwise. Makes much more sense that trying to build a system with hundreds of techniques. Just teach the core principles of fighting and you don't need the system.

    Good Stuff,
    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    You need to remember that these people were trained from womb forward in the arts of war. There was'nt a lot of need for time efficency. Plus some things taht work really well empty handed work not so good with a sword. There are some things that work with a spear that are dangeous to try with a sword. Perhaps that is why, if actually ever investigate, the ryu's of these particular weapons you see techniques being taught.

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    You need to remember that these people were trained from womb forward in the arts of war. There was'nt a lot of need for time efficency. Plus some things taht work really well empty handed work not so good with a sword. There are some things that work with a spear that are dangeous to try with a sword. Perhaps that is why, if actually ever investigate, the ryu's of these particular weapons you see techniques being taught.
    in my personal opinion, a lot of the things that i have learned as far as sword work is concerned, is directly related to empty hand.
    if you remove the sword from a lot of the kata and look at what the hands and body are doing, it looks like a lot like jujutsu.

    as far as sword and spear are concerned......different tools, different jobs.
    you wouldnt use a turkey sandwich to change a tire on your car.

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    At what point have the systems gained or lost weapons over the course of the years?

    For example, jitte techniques used in police hand to hand and some jujutsu systems have been translated into noble stick (expandable baton) techniques over the years. But this training has had to evolve a bit as there needed to be training to expand the weapon during a confrontation or to use it in it's closed position (effectively making the weapon two weapons, techniques for it in the closed position like a jitte or yawara bar, or in it's open position like a tanbo {small stick not dragonfly}).

    In the past I have gotten training such as noble stick training, tantojutsu as it applies to folding knives, cane training (with a hook...without is just a hanbo) and flexible weaponry (such as belt or cord, which is really only a variation of ball and chain {manriki kusari} techniques).

    Is anyone doing training like this?

    Regards,
    Walt

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    We tend to focus on weapons that you may actually be able to use in modern day scenarios. Bo/Jo staff , escrima sticks , and knives.

    The collapsable battons can be used exactly like escrima. A mop or poolstick can be used like a bo/jo. And well, knives....knives are knives, and available at locations like restaraunts. Of course, with the exception of the bo/jo you could feasibly carry the other two.
    "It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." Charles A. Beard

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    Although I study Kenpo, I love all weapons and want to learn as many as I can as I enjoy competing in the weapons divisions.

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    Weapons are great in any style or program. They really help a person learn more about controlling their own body.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    Rob,I know your handy with the bo, what other weapons are you trained in ?

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    I have used Bo, Sai, Tonfa, kama, Nunchaku, Yawara, Short Stick, Escrima, Cane, Knife, Belt, 3 Sectional Staff, Spear, Hook Swords, Katana, Broad Sword(s), Kai Bo (oar), and right now I am in the market for a Kwan Do.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    I know as an AK purple belt, I should stay in
    the beginners forum, but.................
    I like the solid walking CANE as a weapon!!!!
    I've mentioned it at my school with strange looks.
    We learn Nunchacku, Kama (optional), Bo and Arnis sticks,
    but not the CANE.
    It's about as practical as you can get, not to mention
    it's LEGAL.
    The Cane, as well as the Umbrella should not be overlooked
    as a martial arts weapon.
    Sorry to sound off, just letting out a little frustration.
    I'll go back to the beginners forum now.
    What have I learned from this???

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    Default Re: The Weapons of Kempo?

    The cane is a great weapon. Very misleading. There is no better look on someones face than when you yank out their ankle with the hook of the cane. Or when you hook their next or lock the up. A great weapon.
    Quality outweighs quantity every time.

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