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Thread: Kosho Ryu and China

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    Default Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Ok I think I'm all packed up. Brought some snacks and a flash light. Into the rabbit hole I go...
    GAB since you mentioned Kojo ryu- http://www.kojosho.com/
    Some interesting stuff I have never heard of elsewhere. Maybe you are familar with it? Hawaii is in the picture.
    He had a broom in his hand Bill.

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    Smile Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Quote Originally Posted by monkey-a-go-go
    Ok I think I'm all packed up. Brought some snacks and a flash light. Into the rabbit hole I go...
    GAB since you mentioned Kojo ryu- http://www.kojosho.com/
    Some interesting stuff I have never heard of elsewhere. Maybe you are familar with it? Hawaii is in the picture.
    HI Monkey San,

    Now for my first thought on the name of Hawaii and snacks (I am also consuming a snack and a protein drink).

    Is this pre sandwich or post sandwich LOL... I know, but if I don't laugh no one else will, it will fly over most of the viewers and then some.

    OK, sure it goes to the Islands, but I am talking, back when and where it came from as in "China".
    We, in our search for ancint ancestors all figure we came from some where, but where? It can be as simple as "NOAH" for some and as complex as what the Leakys found in Africa. I know to deep. Maybe if we just stick to the last 1000 years.

    But in this case the most trafficked information for Americans is since WWll.

    AK wants to go only to Parker, and his miraculous conception. Then you have others who delve deeper and others that are anal. HMMM...

    Well sometimes you have got to be anal to get to the roots. Since many branchs come from the same tree.

    I think that is a good site, (thank you for the participation) on a cursory search just to see what you were relating to. I will follow it up more and we can exchange thoughts.

    In the mean time I will wait for the radical I am in search of.

    Regards, Gary

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    Default Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Gotcha, GAB. I mentioned Hawaii in the context of that web site being an interesting karate/kempo system that says it shares a tie to Kojo style you mentioned. Sorry for the deviation.
    OK, China then. I am still cloudy on the Tour itinerary. Let us squares in a little bit more.
    I skipped the sandwich and went straight to dinner today lol.
    He had a broom in his hand Bill.

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    Default Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Quote Originally Posted by monkey-a-go-go
    Gotcha, GAB. I mentioned Hawaii in the context of that web site being an interesting karate/kempo system that says it shares a tie to Kojo style you mentioned. Sorry for the deviation.
    OK, China then. I am still cloudy on the Tour itinerary. Let us squares in a little bit more.
    I skipped the sandwich and went straight to dinner today lol.
    Hi Monkey San,

    I have been looking at the web site you put up.

    It has some good information. They have a book you can get from them regarding the System. I am going to send for it. Looks like the tidbit they give will be worth the bite.

    Anyway as I was saying China and the Kempo system that has gotten much attention in the wrong direction because of the way it was brought to the USA.

    In a way Hollywood is the culprit and should shoulder the blame, for what is believed and the stories of what is real in the world of Katate and Kempo and the other arts that have been twisted up like they have. Oh well different topic altogether.

    I believe this forum (kenpotalk) will have a lot of success in weeding out the BS and such, that is I hope so.

    Robert Trias had a huge influence in the way things manifested. But Parker takes all the credit, funny the way the world turns.

    Now with the China situation, since the particular groups we talk about having the martial arts of today. The actual countries, Korea, Japan, Okinawa (japan).
    China and others that touch their borders used and borrowed their writing for hundreds of years you would think that we as a nation would see the power in that and not allow all the other countries to come here and set up their various squares and mega towns within our cities. (deep Breath)...

    They (countries) borrowed their (China's) writing and their Martial arts (I have said that I think). Now we are (US) doing that also and have been for along time. MA any how.
    But we have put the American stamp on it. We change it because of our height and weight, we change it because we don't think as clandestine as they do.

    We add a little Indonesian, throw in some Filipino add Boxing, some wrestling
    change a few names and now we have American Kenpo. Not to be confused with EPAK. But we use the Japanese language to call off the Kata and number or the name of it...At least in some of the schools that I have been to.

    Enough of that, It all goes back to China regarding this thing we call Kempo.

    In My Humble thoughts anyway.

    Regards, Gary

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    Default Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary A Brewer
    Hi Dave,

    I see that you have been listening to Master Ray, or actually it could have come from any of the seniors such as Master Ted or of course Master Al.
    Actually, it is my own theory. I ran it across a fellow named David Brose who trained in Kosho under John Chow Hoon, and he agreed with me. I have yet to run it across any of the Tracy's seniors.

    I believe Tracy's is like that. One of the reason's for so many additional tec's then say AK. Master Tracy went to the college of Karate and did not stop learning when he parted from AK.
    Maybe. The story that I have heard is that Ed Parker set his requirements for EPAK by deleting much of the redundancy in techniques, and that Al Tracy chose to keep them. There is much controversy over the "more or less techniques" thing, I happen to agree with the Tracy method. I know many fine kenpoists who do not. I agree with you about Al Tracy never stopping his learning, however, he preserved a system, and as far as I know, did not really add to it in terms of curriculum.


    Does that make sense?
    Mostly.
    Dave

    "I consider that the spiritual life is the life of man's real self, the life of that interior self whose flame is so often allowed to be smothered under the ashes of anxiety and futile concern." - Thomas Merton


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    Default Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary A Brewer
    HI Kai,

    Reality is in the eye of the beholder. Also in the giver and receiver of pain delivered with precision and timing.
    Really don't know what you mean here

    The sweet science (boxing) is a perfect example.
    Example of what?

    History is one thing and the practice of it another. Now one thing we both know and understand is that for all the other BS Hanshi is a great MA Dude.
    I've never met a History Practioner, if you practice history enough, can you stop time
    Hanshi is a great martial artist, too bad he gets surrounded by a ton of fooolishness

    Now how about the Kanji I was refering to in your Handle (The Kai). Which radical? Come on Kai, no way are you going to skirt this one. LOL
    Since you have a specific answer in mind to your question, go ahead and handle this one. Plus, I do better in english

    Gab I don't think you are anal about the roots, merely anal about what you imagine the roots to be.

    It's a shame that all the ed parker did was run a chain of schools, start a hugh tournament, field teams of fighter to travel the US and Europe, Get kenpo into the movies and TV, and still found the time to steal the limelight from others
    BTW there was no miraculus conception-parker always staed where he goy his start

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    Smile Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    Really don't know what you mean here



    Example of what?



    I've never met a History Practioner, if you practice history enough, can you stop time
    Hanshi is a great martial artist, too bad he gets surrounded by a ton of fooolishness



    Since you have a specific answer in mind to your question, go ahead and handle this one. Plus, I do better in english

    Gab I don't think you are anal about the roots, merely anal about what you imagine the roots to be.

    It's a shame that all the ed parker did was run a chain of schools, start a hugh tournament, field teams of fighter to travel the US and Europe, Get kenpo into the movies and TV, and still found the time to steal the limelight from others
    BTW there was no miraculus conception-parker always staed where he goy his start
    Hi Kai,

    OK, finally some im/nput <(*-).

    Roots, where do you believe the information that is in AK came from?

    Biggest TV series during that time had nothing to do with EP (Kung Fu)
    Another one with William Conrad (West) was he involved in it? NO!

    First person to hit the mainland that was teaching Kajukenbo had something to do with them. Sifu John Leoning.

    You are being very slippery here about your name regarding "The Kai". Makes me wonder if you might not know? Well it does not matter.

    The funny thing about EPAK is it really is not that big of an organization, but this particular forum is dedicated to him. Thats OK. Really I am not worried about it, just an observation.

    Do your homework, crunch some numbers, and you will get my drift.

    Foolishness? Give me a quick summary on your take on the evolution of Martial
    Arts.

    Carl Sagan use's a comparison of the world we live in, like a time capsule.
    By using the calender as a reference point regarding the time man has been on this earth.

    I think it would be a good representation of the MA we know that hit the mainland from Hawaii.
    Mankind as we know it, in the last day, and the last hour just prior to the end of the year. Not even the first part of the hour as I recall. I will hone up on that one and get back to you.

    Back to foolishness, Yes, but what would you like to talk about? The correct stance as in your interpretation taught by your school? Or the proper way to hold a bo when striking some one with it?

    We can do that, give me a thought pattern and we can run with it.

    Given the basic's in boxing, (there are less then a half dozen) regarding strikes. Defense's not much more. It is how you use them and how you are able to absorb (pain) that counts.

    Talk about Hollywood, you might try watching the movie "Million Dollar Baby"
    it will give you an idea as to what I am talking about (re Pain).
    I think you missed my point on Hollywood and MA.

    Thanks for keeping this alive.

    Regards, Gary
    Last edited by Gary A Brewer; 08-02-2005 at 11:55 AM.

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    Smile Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Hi Dave,

    That is a good story. Thanks for being honest.

    Intuitive based on observation and information gleaned by your own involvement in MA.

    I have to tell you I like it, with that bit of information I can tell that you are a freethinker. Good for you! Go to the head of the class.

    Do you ask questions that get you in trouble? Or are you more disciplined then me? LOL

    Regards, Gary

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    Default Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary A Brewer
    Hi Kai,

    OK, finally some im/nput <(*-).

    Roots, where do you believe the information that is in AK came from?

    Biggest TV series during that time had nothing to do with EP (Kung Fu)
    Another one with William Conrad (West) was he involved in it? NO!

    First person to hit the mainland that was teaching Kajukenbo had something to do with them. Sifu John Leoning.

    You are being very slippery here about your name regarding "The Kai". Makes me wonder if you might not know? Well it does not matter.

    The funny thing about EPAK is it really is not that big of an organization, but this particular forum is dedicated to him. Thats OK. Really I am not worried about it, just an observation.

    Do your homework, crunch some numbers, and you will get my drift.

    Foolishness? Give me a quick summary on your take on the evolution of Martial
    Arts.

    Carl Sagan use's a comparison of the world we live in, like a time capsule.
    By using the calender as a reference point regarding the time man has been on this earth.

    I think it would be a good representation of the MA we know that hit the mainland from Hawaii.
    Mankind as we know it, in the last day, and the last hour just prior to the end of the year. Not even the first part of the hour as I recall. I will hone up on that one and get back to you.

    Back to foolishness, Yes, but what would you like to talk about? The correct stance as in your interpretation taught by your school? Or the proper way to hold a bo when striking some one with it?

    We can do that, give me a thought pattern and we can run with it.

    Given the basic's in boxing, (there are less then a half dozen) regarding strikes. Defense's not much more. It is how you use them and how you are able to absorb (pain) that counts.

    Talk about Hollywood, you might try watching the movie "Million Dollar Baby"
    it will give you an idea as to what I am talking about (re Pain).
    I think you missed my point on Hollywood and MA.

    Thanks for keeping this alive.

    Regards, Gary


    Almost completely incomprehensible, keep at GAB i'm sure you'll be gibbering away soon

    BTW I'm not being slippery about the name, go ahead and tell people what you want to hear

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    Smile Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Hi Kai,

    Come on just give me the radical and I will be so happy LOL...
    I don't want to have to give you the information, then you will know it also.

    By the way I did not know about your connection with Hanshi in quite as much detail, I was curious so I have been asking about you. So now I understand a little more about your responses, no problem.

    Like, do you want to discuss the kata Kusanku? Or the name of the temple I supplied you?

    Almost completly incomprehensible LOL. OK

    Regards, Gary

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    Default Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Gary

    You are right , you are right

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    Smile Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    Gary

    You are right , you are right
    Hi Kai,

    I don't want to be right.

    I was reading in the Kata & Kanji dictionary last night after I came back from the dojo (Guro Carlito was there and he was teaching his take on Escrima). I was looking up the word Kai. The book shows about 20 different use's.

    One of the more interesting was the Radical that is important to them regarding rice paddies, and shellfish. Another was refering to Kai as "world" and then of course we have the one that is about family and organizations.

    I think if you delve into the above items you will find similarities. Their "world" revolves around "rice paddies" and "shellfish" and "families" doing the work.
    Giles translations was 150 years ago, he commented on how infantile the early characters of the chinese (kanji) writing was.
    One of the things about this radical is it is #9 of 214 so you can see it is pretty early or important to the way they (chinese, japanese etc.) use it.

    Now if you look at it further you can see that the rice paddy supplied them with everything that was necessary for life. You had water, fish (protein) and Rice (carbohydrates).

    Simple huh?

    It was all they needed to have their world. But you can see if we took all that, broke it cown and had no understanding of the "infantile" (early man) and the way they looked at life...

    But as I try and discribe it hopefully it is available for digestion.
    It is very clear. Yes? No?

    Regards, Gary

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    Default Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    You bet you gary, I can see why this would bother you for days on end.


    Btw, in trying to keep a level of sanity to the postings, I may of come of as being rude to Hanshi Jucnik-that was not my intention

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    Smile Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    You bet you gary, I can see why this would bother you for days on end.
    Btw, in trying to keep a level of sanity to the postings, I may of come of as being rude to Hanshi Jucnik-that was not my intention
    Hi Kai,

    Now, NO it did not bother me, I was just looking for some input and felt that you might want discuss the reason you chose "The Kai".

    When I was discussing these conversations with Hanshi and others they were asking if you were being derogitory or anything about Hanshi. I told them No, I did not feel that you were.

    I understand that you are trying to pull my chain, no biggie.
    I actually enjoy these word games and am not in the least bit offended.

    Yes, I have been banned from numerous boards but the reason was never
    my fault...LOL

    Regards, Gary

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    Default Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    s' cOOL

    I heard the thing about a hall. shellfish, the paddy-not the world tho'

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    Smile Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    s' cOOL

    I heard the thing about a hall. shellfish, the paddy-not the world tho'
    Hi Kai,

    Now to take this a step further Legend has it that-----

    Kosho-Koan-Korei-Kogen-Kaika were all early Emperor's of Japan.
    Starting with number 5 being Kosho and number 9 being Kaika.

    First off you will notice a similar Ko-then ?? Following along with Kai-.
    Tracing that down will/would not be that difficult you would think. LOL

    See it is very hard to put this stuff into the "simple box" that we as "American" would like to do.

    Anyway I was just thinking I would run that past you.

    You know this is the month of August, 60 years ago the Japanese were hit with the Atomic Bomb?

    Now when thinking about that we all know that Nagasaki was struck by one of the Bombs that were delivered. One member of Hirohito's cabinet called the bombs "gifts from the gods". Must have been one ugly empire for someone to say that.

    Now the castle we are talking about was not that far from the area of Nagasaki. Can you imagine the destruction? Sure, we all can.

    If interested we can go on from here, Japan.

    Regards, Gary

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    Default Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    I though the 1st emperor of japan was named Jimmu, then the Fujiwara Clan

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    Smile Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Hi Kai,

    Yes Jimmu or Jimnu was a mythical founder from the gods in the same respect (kind of) like the Olympians in the west. Similar time frame I believe, could be later.

    But if you want to get a clearer break down, there are some sites, one being Wikipedia.com. But then it is a public domain and anyone can fill in the blanks. But it is a start. The deeper you dig the more you realize just how hard it is to interpret this stuff.

    Now add on all the confusion with the politics that is constanly being played, it gets even thicker.

    Hanshi gives seminars on this, but then you pay for his side of the coin that he is stating. Then you try and follow that up with other information to corroborate, then ask more question's, well it is on going.

    A detective's nightmare you might say. And for what, not much. Just keeping the wheels rolling and hope to keep away senility, or going there faster LOL.
    When I overwork my body and my mind, does it come back as quick as it did when I was younger?

    Gibberishing with delight. LOL

    Regards, Gary
    Last edited by Gary A Brewer; 08-03-2005 at 04:56 PM.

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    Smile Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary A Brewer
    Hi Dave,

    That is a good story. Thanks for being honest.

    Intuitive based on observation and information gleaned by your own involvement in MA.

    I have to tell you I like it, with that bit of information I can tell that you are a freethinker. Good for you! Go to the head of the class.

    Do you ask questions that get you in trouble? Or are you more disciplined then me? LOL

    Regards, Gary
    LOL. I get myself in trouble sometimes. Only when I mean to, though...
    Dave

    "I consider that the spiritual life is the life of man's real self, the life of that interior self whose flame is so often allowed to be smothered under the ashes of anxiety and futile concern." - Thomas Merton


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    Default Re: Kosho Ryu and China

    Kosho-Koan-Korei-Kogen-Kaika were all early Emperor's of Japan.
    Starting with number 5 being Kosho and number 9 being Kaika.

    I do'nt get it

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